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Is there a contradict result between a Natal and Horary?

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Joined: 10 Nov 2016
Posts: 1

Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 7:19 am    Post subject: Is there a contradict result between a Natal and Horary? Reply with quote

Dear all,

I would like to ask if you have been experienced the contradict result when asking the same question in Natal chart and Horary chart.

Let say I want to ask "Will I have a romantic relationship within the next 12 months?". And when you check your Natal chart, you see that it is likely happen. However, when I ask the same question and casting the Horary chart, the result is that the chance is highly unlikely.

So my questions are
1. Could it possibly happen?
2. In case it actually happens, which one will be triump?
3. In case it does not happen, is there any particular reason for it to happen?

Thank you so much in advance.

PS: I am not sure if I can post this question in this forum. So please move to the according forum if necessary, Paul.
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Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Posts: 87

Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I understand your question. It has happened to me about a year and a half ago! I just got out of a long term relationship. I casted a horary will I be in a relationship this year. The horary was a No, no good aspects, moon in fall...anyway when I looked at my progressed chart I couldn't believe my eyes. I started dating someone a few weeks after casting the horary and I couldn't believe our pr. Synastry. Very Happy . It was meant to be. We are still together. So I think if you are asking a question about getting in a relationship or having a child I would check natal and progressions. But this is just my experience. I'm sure very experienced horary astrologers have an explanation to why there seems to be contradictions.
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Joined: 19 Sep 2011
Posts: 47
Location: Southern Indiana

Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No "good" aspects? IME, 'bad' aspects like squares and oppositions indicate that something will happen, but that the connection will need to be approached with some caution. With a square or opposition, the planets and the people or things they represent are working at cross purposes, being in the same modality but with entirely different approaches.

(As opposed to trines and conjunctions, in which they share the same element and usually are able to complement one another.)

Far more important is that the aspect eventually perfect itself (or not) and whether it is applying or separating.

IOW, if what you want to happen is represented by, say, an applying square, expect miscues and miscommunications, and problems at the outset, but a connection will at least be made.
Le grand crier sans honte audacieux / Sera esleu gouverneur de l'armee.
La hardiesse de son contentieux / Le pont rompu, cité de peur pasmee.

- Nostradamus, Centuries 3:81
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Joined: 02 Apr 2015
Posts: 225

Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can think of a few scenarios:

Natal shows only major events or events with broader significance in the native's life. Horary can go into a lot more detail and address a lot more events than natal. You can go on a romantic binge and meet ten people this year. The natal chart will NOT show the ten encounters, it will show only one testimony. Horary will show each of all ten, if you ask.

Natal and horary have different scales of operation. Only horary can address small as well as large scales, because the scale depends on the querent's breadth or depth of conciousness. Natal cannot address small scale events with any accuracy.

The Horary chart may be wrongly cast. Wrong time written down. Forgot to set daylight saving time, etc… This can easily give an inverted answer: "yes" for "no" or "no" for "yes".

The Horary question is wrong. The words point in one direction and the intent in another.

The Horary question is fuzzy or not focused. There is no focussed emotional investment or direction at all; so the chart has no direction at all.

The astrologer does not have the natal or horary skill or knowledge. Horary and natal technique are different. That is: the astrologer makes a mistake.

The birth time is wrong.

In order to come to any significant and useful conclusion about why there may be a discrepancy between natal and horary we have to consider several factors and analyse several charts.

Finally, can there be glitches in the matrix? I think so, but that should be the exception. All the more reason to study various charts before coming to any conclusion.

In general, there should be no discrepancy between horary and natal. In fact, horary charts for major events can often show remarkable resemblance to the querent's birth chart.
Felipe Oliveira
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Joined: 21 Jul 2015
Posts: 172
Location: Canada

Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


Thanks minhiub for asking this question - I was about to ask the same one!

I cast a horary recently for "Will I make new friends or have a relationship, in real life, in the next two years?" The answer was a resounding NO to both .

But in this year's Solar Return chart Venus is in Libra in 11, away from the Via Combusta, rules the 7th and 11th houses and is the most dignified planet in the chart.

In the progressed chart, 7th house is ruled by Jupiter in Cancer on the MC but opposed by Venus in Sagittarius in 3. Venus is intercepted in the first and rules the 9th - so maybe I'd have better success writing romance novels than having an actual relationship?

In my natal chart Venus is dignified and aspected only by benefics but according to Mr. Lilly there is no chance of a long-term relationship; so far in my life this is true - I've never had so much as one. Shocked

Did I mention that 7 is ruled by Saturn? Sick

So which chart to believe?

Thanks to everyone who answered so far.

The Moon is opposing Jupiter. Don't get involved, it's their problem. Jim Critchfield
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Joined: 22 May 2017
Posts: 163
Location: Canada

Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Minhiub:

Thank you for your excellent question re: the contradictions of astrology and your interest in horary astrology, for which I have been an advocate for many years.

Horary astrology, when practiced by a bonafide expert, is actually a higher form of consultancy than natal horoscopic interpretation.

While natal chart analysts are much like the local judiciary, ie a provincial, municipal, or state judge, the horary astrology experience is like visiting the Supreme Court in the land.

The Supreme Court does not always give you a quick answer to your question or, they do not always hear your case at all. In horary astrology, the strictures against judgement are similar and act like a screening process to weed out frivilous and or stupid questioners.

This is astrology practiced at the highest level and many horary astrologers are, indeed, scholars, and expert at most other types of astrology.

Therefore, when a natal chart decision is rendered, it is like getting a verdict from a lower court, whereas a higher court can give a much different answer.

One outcome does not cancel the other, even if they seem contradictory.

Although horary astrology has a "self-serve" feature to it, it was originally invented as a client-advisor mechanism (After all, the questioner is typically the 1st house and the astrologer is always the 7th house).

Therefore, you will always get a more accurate answer if you hire a horary astrologer to field the question (or alternatively, ask a friend or relative to ask the question on your behalf). It may not be the answer that you ultimately like, or maybe people don't want to hear your question, etc.

In "self-serve" astrology, the main pitfall is the questioner is likely biased and getting an accurate answer, or even phrasing the question properly, might be difficult.

The other reality is that people often ask the horary astrologer a question, twice, as in previously asked through the natal chart, psychics, the tarot cards, and or whatever other auguries exist, out there?

You cannot ask the same question, twice, in horary work.

Therefore, the late American astrologer Llewellyn George said it best that nine out of 10 horary questions are typically rubbish, and therefore, the horary chart yields a garbage answer, as well.

Finally, a horary question needs an emotional stake in the chart, from the questioner. If there is none, the chart's outcome is typically flawed, especially if you ask questions that are none of your business (such as the fate of public figures that you do not know, personally, questions re: the death of a client or your own demise, etc.)
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