As Tom has pointed out, there is always a question about when these post season games start. The last six SuperBowl games started at the following times: 6:27, 6:27, 6:38, 5:25, 3:36, and 5:40. Note how the times fall into two tight groups. I have seen the 6:17 time in the papers, so I will assume the game will start nearer to the average of the earlier times, which is 4:26 pm MST.

Looking at the chart via Frawley I would say the Pats would win, especially with MO-0-JU. But there is something odd about this chart, and that is that for such a special game it is a singularly inactive chart. We have the Pats trying to go for an unbeaten seaon (done only once before in NFL history), and the Giants trying to win their 11th straight on the road, an NFL record, I believe. Also, I believe the Giants are the first wildcard time in over 40 years to make it to the SB. One would expect more.

When we look at some of the "non-Frawley factors" we begin to see some of these other factors. We see, for example that the Giants ruler, Saturn, is only 30' from a conjunction to the Part of Death. Bummer! But further examination reveals that the Part of Peril is exactly conjunct the Pats ascendant, and the Part of Assasination is only one degree above it. Hope for New York!

There are no midpoints on the Asc or MC, but bracketing the IC we find PL/ASC and MO/ASC. One is on the IC, the other is in the IC, if you get what I'm getting at. When we look at the DSC we find a really extraordinary cluster of midpoints within +/- 2 degrees, namely: SU/JU, NE/PL, SU/MO, and ME/PL. Sun/Moon is only 10' away from the DSC.

I'm not quite clear what this means, you understand, but I think it fills in some of the missing 'stuff' we would expect in a chart like this.

Now for the diurnal charts.

I have posted before on how to do these, so I will say nothing more. Look it up. The Pats won their first game on 9/9/07 at 1:03 pm EDT in East Rutherford, NJ. The Giants on 9/23/07 at 4:16 pm EDT in Washington, D.C.

It's hard to describe these charts in words: you have to draw the aspects in to really get the feel for them. The Pats have N_Asc-30-D_MO, N_POF-90-D_MC, and that's all involving the diurnal angles, which Mason says is the critical thing to look for in these charts.

The Giants have N_SU-180-D_MC and -135-D_SU, which is also -45-D_MC. This is what Mason calls a modified T-square, and is a very strong configuration. The Giants also have N_ASC-60-D_MC and -120-N_SU. We also have N_MC-90-D_NE, and N_POF-30-D_ASC and -120-D_ME. There are a couple of other, but I'm getting confused myself!

The jist of it is that the Giants diurnal chart is much more active that the Pats, and that is the sign of the winner in Mason's system. Can the diural analysis be reconciled with the game chart? Via Frawley, I would say no. But if that great mass of midpoints works favorably for the Giants then I would say yes.

Is it possible? Dare we hope? Do miracles really happen?

We'll know in a few hours!

Bob

Excellent writeup Bob.

I looked at the chart a couple weeks ago and found the same thing like everyone else...a whole bunch of nothing via Frawley's method. Indicating that the default favorite New England would win. That's why I didn't post anything myself.

Should the Giants win, I'd find that more interesting from an astro perspective. Why? Because that gives a lot of validation to finding an alternative method for an underdog winning. As about the biggest sporting event there ever is, it's my belief there's less chance for a "fluke" or a low probability event happening that's not reflected in the astro. So if New York wins, whatever pieces of astro pointed toward that should be given extra credence to study in past and future games.

Also, I believe the Giants are the first wildcard time in over 40 years to make it to the SB. One would expect more.

And more has occurred. The wild card system began with two wild card teams in 1970. Since that time 9 wild card teams made it to the Super Bowl including the 2007 Giants. Four have won it. The first of these was the 1980 Oakland Raiders; the last the 2005 Pittsburgh Steelers.

Tom

I think he means that one would expect more action and energy going on in this event chart, considering all the unusual and unique circumstances leading up to the game?

As you mention though Tom, 4 wildcards have won it, so there is definitely hope for those rooting for the dog!

Wow! What a game. NY Giants pull off a fantastic upset in the last seconds and win 17-14.

For everyone studying sports astrology, you need to study and research this game chart, regardless of your interest in American football. It went off at 4:30 pm Feb 3 2008 in Glendale, Arizona. It looks like Bob's diurnal chart method is certainly one way that predicted the NYG. I'll study the chart more later on for other clues.

Now I see, we have one strong testimony for underdog in this chart, according to J.Frawley, and that is Moon opose Antiscion of POF on 11Can56!!

one I apparently missed....the Moon opposed to the antiscion of the part of fortune

Easy to miss because this aspect was out of orb at the scheduled start time, but within orb at the actual start time!

I was really floating on Cloud 9 after the game ended, not only because the Giants won, but because of the astrological implications.

Let's take a quick look at the game chart, using the correct time, at least by my watch, of 4:30 pm MST, perhaps a few seconds later. As I said in my original post, there is nothing in this chart, using Frawley's methods, which would indicate such an historic upset. It simply isn't there, and that includes the Moon opposite the antiscion of Fortuna. This is at best a minor contributing factor, in my opinion. The real answer to the question lies in those factors which I have mentioned several times in this forum, namely midpoints and the Arabic parts.

In this chart we have the Part of Assasination at 25CA30 just above the Pats ascendant, and the Part of Peril just below it at 26CA27. In my first post I used a game time of 4:26 pm which put the Part of Death at 6VI15, just 30' from the Giants ruler, Saturn. With the correct time this part has moved to 7VI48, a degree past Saturn, and separating (Saturn is retrograde). There are no parts on the Giants angles, except for the Part of Find Lost Objects, exactly in the IC, altho it may be that this would have no great effect on the game!

Looking at the midpoints, we find SU/JU just below the Giants Asc, and SU/MO just above it in the 7th houe.

When these factors are considered the result of the game is entirely predictable. I was a little hesitant to stick my neck out on it in my first post because all of the planets involved in the midpoints have strong connections to the Pats side of the chart, and I wasn't sure how they would work out. As I have reported in earlier posts, I suspect the midpoints function independently of their rulerships, and in that case I think all would agree that SU/MO = SU/JU = DSC is about as good as you can get. There is a precedent for this in Frawley's method in Fortuna, which is made up of 3 factors which can often be associated with the favorites, and yet it functions as an independant point. It is what it is.
I suspect the same for the midpoints.

There is an exchange going on in this forum in which it has been stated that picking the winners of sporting events is one of the most difficult of astrological tasks. I am an engineer. I solve problems for a living. It has been my observation over the years that all problems are comparatively easy to solve when a) you know what you're doing, and b) you have the right tools. I freely admit that most of the people on this forum are probably better astrologers than I am, so condition a) it met. The problem is the tools you are using. Everyone (and I do this, too) continues to use the game chart as their sole tool for picking winners, even in the face of massive evidence that they don't work all that well. The chart for the Superbowl is an absolutely classic example of this. This was an upset of historic proportions, and it really doesn't show up in the chart, until you start using some non-standard techniques.

The win showed up with stunning clarity in Sophia Mason's diurnal chart method. I believe that with this method added to our toolkit the task of picking winners will be made an order of magnitude easier, and I hope this example will encourage all of you to try it. I have posted the details of the techiques in this forum, so they are easily available.

It would be nice if members of this forum would declare a moritorium on game chart analysis, and instead use Mason's method exclusively. I think her method could use some buffing and polishing, and with all of us workig on it some real progress could be made.

Regards, Bob

Congratulations to all who called the game correctly.

I wanted to wait until I got home and had John's book to verify my memory, but then the timeliness would be lost.

As I said in my original post, there is nothing in this chart, using Frawley's methods, which would indicate such an historic upset. It simply isn't there, and that includes the Moon opposite the antiscion of Fortuna. This is at best a minor contributing factor, in my opinion.

If its right it's right and an opinion that the testimony is insignificant even when it works is not relevant. I don't know what the significators are for an "historic upset." I would think upset is enough and other matters outside the game determine whether or not it is historic. This is an event chart for a football game - nothing more. You're saying there is nothing in the chart to indicate an upset and what is there doesn't count. That is not a logical position. If there is evidence that this particular configuration has not worked consistently in the past, fine; present it.

Looking at the chart via Frawley I would say the Pats would win, especially with MO-0-JU.

Using Frawley's method we would not include Jupiter at all. It doesn't rule any of the angles nor does it disposit anything significant. The book specifically states that we do not collect testimonies for the sake of collecting testimonies. If you're using Jupiter simply as the greater benefic, this is outside John's methods. I made an offhand suggestion that Jupiter could be used for the Pats in lieu of the Moon as it is the exaltation ruler of the ASC. There is no such suggestion in Sports Astrology nor is any claim made for its validity by John Frawley or for that matter by myself. It was just a suggestion.

It would be nice if members of this forum would declare a moritorium on game chart analysis, and instead use Mason's method exclusively.

It would be nice for whom? You are free to limit yourself to this method as often as you like but telling everyone else to stop what they're doing and switch to what you like is a bit over the top. Any one is free to use any method they wish as often or as little as they wish. It's an open forum and it will remain that way.

Tom

I agree that I came on a bit strong in that last part. What I should have said was that it would be nice if members would declare a moritorium on the use of methods which don't work all that well and begin to explore others that show potential. It is quite possible that parts of these other methods could be blended into Frawley's to make his system even better.

The Superbowl is a prime example of Frawley's emminence factor, and as such the game should have shown up clearly. It didn't. As for Frawley not mentioning Jupiter when not a ruler: so? If Saturn can be nasty, why can't Jupiter be nice? Logic would suggest that it should work that way.

With apologies for comming on a bit strong,

Bob

This is an interesting event to study. An upset is an upset, and one must look for evidence. Great call by Bob using the diurnal charts. I will need to look into this method as I'm not familiar with it.

I wanted to bring your attention to the end-of-game chart. If we can go by reports on the internet, e.g.,

http://manuelsview.blogspot.com/2008/02 ... te-by.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_s ... 224160.stm

the game ended at around 8:03 pm MST (+7). Virgo rising and Gemini on midheaven, so Mercury represents the Patriots (favourites) and Jupiter the Giants (underdogs). Mercury is retrograde, combust and in the 6th house, conjunct Neptune. Jupiter is direct, conjunct in between the Moon and Venus in the 4th, trine the Ascendant. Saturn is also loosely on the eastern horizon.

This chart is very clearly favouring the underdogs, without the need for resorting to the use of antiscia and similar exotics. I'm not saying that this chart can be used for predicitive purposes (it could prove more difficult to predict the end time than the result itself ), just that it is very indicative of what happened at that particular moment. Namely that the underdogs were elevated while the favourites suffered.

In light of this and Bob's successful prediction employing the diurnal chart method, I think the real question is whether the start-of-game event chart can be used reliably for such a long game. The angles have changed signs twice during the game, meaning that we get three different sets of rulers, traversing 2-3 houses during the game. True enough that we use the radix for our entire life, but I don't think anyone would be able to predict an unambiguous, timed event just from looking at the birth chart.