16 by aquirata OK, here is John Frawley's method applied to this match (Asc 21Cap45, Moon 00Vir00). Significators: Saturn (L1) for favourite = Arsenal 11/8 Mercury (dispositor of L7 Moon) for underdog = Man Utd 2/1 Mars (L10) is also dispositor of Fortuna, so only this latter role counts Venus (L4) for underdog House placement: None within 2-3 degrees. Moon's aspects: None within 5-6 degrees. Fortuna's aspects: None to Moon, no conjunction or opposition to Lords. Other: L1 conjunct South Node (2 degrees, separating) = underdog Fortuna combust (<1 degree, applying) = underdog All in all, two testimonies for the underdog. However, he does say that this method works well for finals but not for league matches. So, provided that the method can be applied to this game at all, the chart seems to indicate a win for Man Utd. Peter Quote Sat Nov 03, 2007 12:10 pm
17 by leeleelee Its a draw After another look at the blackburn vs liverpool chart. I am going for Liverpool will win 2-0. Quote Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:55 pm
18 by aquirata Good call by this forum! To be fair to Frawley, the two testimonies are listed under "miscellaneous" factors in his book, so clearly not major influences. The Saturn conjunct South Node is particularly weak, and if we're left with PoF combust, well, if that's the only thing going for the underdog, then all that will be enough for is a draw at the most. Weighing up the various factors is difficult, and here, from a betting perspective, a position against Arsenal would have been justified on the basis of no major evidence and one minor testimony for the underdog. So perhaps the method was still indicative of the match, especially considering that the timing was not run-of-the-mill, so certainly the potential for it was there. Peter Quote Sun Nov 04, 2007 2:24 am
19 by aquirata Taking a look at what was happening to the significators in real time... L1: Saturn, L10: Mars = favourite (Arsenal) L7: Moon, L4: Venus = underdog (Man Utd) 15th min: L4 to 7th house (U) = penalty for Arsenal denied 45th min: L1 SQ MC (U) = Man Utd scores 51st min: L10 to 5th house (F) = Arsenal scores (48th min) 80th min: L7 CO Des (U) = Man Utd scores (82 min) 90th min: L1 CO Des (F) = Arsenal scores So 2 vs 3 events indicated for the teams, final score: 2-2. A draw call wouldn't have been unreasonable considering the odds. Peter Quote Sun Nov 04, 2007 3:31 am
20 by Ficina Well done to everybody, especially those who got it right The Blackburn/L'pool match also ended in a draw. I would say it`s definitely Liverpool`s win if the Moon is not conjoining the S Node and then Saturn, but as it is it can be a draw again. Gem, is this based on Goca's indicators for a draw? I hadn't been able to find any previous charts with Moon conj S Node, but yesterday's two games are perfect examples. Peter, as you say, if you'd disregarded those two minor testimonies I think you'd have gone for a draw too. At half time I actually ran the chart through in real time and saw the Moon and Saturn crossing the Desc towards the end of the game. Lucky Arsenal scoring their equaliser in injury time! Quote Sun Nov 04, 2007 12:52 pm
21 by Gem Ficina I've seen quite a few games ended in a draw where the Moon is applying to either the S Node or Satrun. But I thought I got it wrong till Arsenal scored at the last minuite Peter Quite impressive looking at the sigs in real time Last edited by Gem on Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total. Quote Sun Nov 04, 2007 1:11 pm
22 by Gem The Saturn conjunct South Node is particularly weak, Saturn has some affinity with the S Node and it doesn't seem to get detrimental effects from being conjunct it. We've seen the charts even where Saturn was in partile conjunction with the S Node but that had no ill effects on Saturn. Quote Sun Nov 04, 2007 2:42 pm
23 by Andrew Bevan Saturn conj South node is probably as old, weak, worn or fragile as you can get. News that comes to mind: The 3000 year old mummy of the Egyptian king ,Tutankhamon, was shown in public for the first time on Sunday. Things of this nature that turn to dust as soon as you breathe on them. However, you may agree that this is the nature of Saturn, but anything that you want to hold on to and restore for any practical purpose is surely in a weary state. http://www.astronor.com Quote Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:41 am
24 by Gem The revelation of the 3000 year old face is indeed extraordinary; certainly it`d be fascinating to look at it astrologically. Regarding SNode-Saturn, the only reference that comes to my mind right now is `Picatrix` quoted by Astrojin: www.skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopics.p ... ght=#19156 Quote Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:38 pm
25 by aquirata Gem wrote:Quite impressive looking at the sigs in real time Thanks Gem, but it was done after the event. Also, the first indicator was a denied penalty and not a goal, and two of the others were off by 2-3 minutes... After some thought though I agree that this is quite spectacular! Gem wrote:Saturn has some affinity with the S Node and it doesn't seem to get detrimental effects from being conjunct it. Agreed. Moreover, looking at anything conjunct the SN doesn't align with John's maxim of concentrating only on 'ephemeral' testimonies, anyway. Peter Quote Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:13 am
26 by Ficina Liverpool have to win their Champions League match tonight. They are odds-on faves so should be OK, but I'm just slightly worried by Saturn (L7) conj IC. Liverpool v Besiktas 7.45pm, 6 Nov Liverpool, England Asc 12,29 Cancer Anyone have any thoughts? Quote Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:52 pm
27 by Gem I'm just slightly worried by Saturn (L7) conj IC. Yes, I don't like the fact that the aspect is rather close... They were odds-on faves last time too, weren't they? Are there any positive testimonies? I've observed this only lately but Mars right on the AC seems to be a positive factor although it may not be a strong one; its aspectt with the Moon is relatively close. I don't see anything else though. The ManU/Dynamo match tomorrow has a similar chart. Becasue ManU are the likely winners, I think Liverpool should be all right too Quote Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:07 pm