16
OK, here is John Frawley's method applied to this match (Asc 21Cap45, Moon 00Vir00).

Significators:
Saturn (L1) for favourite = Arsenal 11/8
Mercury (dispositor of L7 Moon) for underdog = Man Utd 2/1
Mars (L10) is also dispositor of Fortuna, so only this latter role counts
Venus (L4) for underdog

House placement: None within 2-3 degrees. Moon's aspects: None within 5-6 degrees. Fortuna's aspects: None to Moon, no conjunction or opposition to Lords.

Other:
L1 conjunct South Node (2 degrees, separating) = underdog
Fortuna combust (<1 degree, applying) = underdog

All in all, two testimonies for the underdog. However, he does say that this method works well for finals but not for league matches. So, provided that the method can be applied to this game at all, the chart seems to indicate a win for Man Utd.
Peter

18
Good call by this forum!

To be fair to Frawley, the two testimonies are listed under "miscellaneous" factors in his book, so clearly not major influences. The Saturn conjunct South Node is particularly weak, and if we're left with PoF combust, well, if that's the only thing going for the underdog, then all that will be enough for is a draw at the most.

Weighing up the various factors is difficult, and here, from a betting perspective, a position against Arsenal would have been justified on the basis of no major evidence and one minor testimony for the underdog. So perhaps the method was still indicative of the match, especially considering that the timing was not run-of-the-mill, so certainly the potential for it was there.
Peter

19
Taking a look at what was happening to the significators in real time...

L1: Saturn, L10: Mars = favourite (Arsenal)
L7: Moon, L4: Venus = underdog (Man Utd)

15th min: L4 to 7th house (U) = penalty for Arsenal denied
45th min: L1 SQ MC (U) = Man Utd scores
51st min: L10 to 5th house (F) = Arsenal scores (48th min)
80th min: L7 CO Des (U) = Man Utd scores (82 min)
90th min: L1 CO Des (F) = Arsenal scores

So 2 vs 3 events indicated for the teams, final score: 2-2. A draw call wouldn't have been unreasonable considering the odds.
Peter

20
Well done to everybody, especially those who got it right :'

The Blackburn/L'pool match also ended in a draw.
I would say it`s definitely Liverpool`s win if the Moon is not conjoining the S Node and then Saturn, but as it is it can be a draw again.
Gem, is this based on Goca's indicators for a draw? I hadn't been able to find any previous charts with Moon conj S Node, but yesterday's two games are perfect examples.

Peter, as you say, if you'd disregarded those two minor testimonies I think you'd have gone for a draw too. At half time I actually ran the chart through in real time and saw the Moon and Saturn crossing the Desc towards the end of the game. Lucky Arsenal scoring their equaliser in injury time!

21
Ficina
I've seen quite a few games ended in a draw where the Moon is applying to either the S Node or Satrun. But I thought I got it wrong till Arsenal scored at the last minuite :(

Peter
Quite impressive looking at the sigs in real time :)
Last edited by Gem on Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

22
The Saturn conjunct South Node is particularly weak,
Saturn has some affinity with the S Node and it doesn't seem to get detrimental effects from being conjunct it. We've seen the charts even where Saturn was in partile conjunction with the S Node but that had no ill effects on Saturn.

23
Saturn conj South node is probably as old, weak, worn or fragile as you can get. News that comes to mind: The 3000 year old mummy of the Egyptian king ,Tutankhamon, was shown in public for the first time on Sunday. Things of this nature that turn to dust as soon as you breathe on them. However, you may agree that this is the nature of Saturn, but anything that you want to hold on to and restore for any practical purpose is surely in a weary state.
http://www.astronor.com

25
Gem wrote:Quite impressive looking at the sigs in real time :)
Thanks Gem, but it was done after the event. Also, the first indicator was a denied penalty and not a goal, and two of the others were off by 2-3 minutes... After some thought though I agree that this is quite spectacular! :)
Gem wrote:Saturn has some affinity with the S Node and it doesn't seem to get detrimental effects from being conjunct it.
Agreed. Moreover, looking at anything conjunct the SN doesn't align with John's maxim of concentrating only on 'ephemeral' testimonies, anyway.
Peter

26
Liverpool have to win their Champions League match tonight. They are odds-on faves so should be OK, but I'm just slightly worried by Saturn (L7) conj IC.

Liverpool v Besiktas
7.45pm, 6 Nov
Liverpool, England
Asc 12,29 Cancer

Anyone have any thoughts?

27
I'm just slightly worried by Saturn (L7) conj IC.
Yes, I don't like the fact that the aspect is rather close... They were odds-on faves last time too, weren't they?

Are there any positive testimonies? I've observed this only lately but Mars right on the AC seems to be a positive factor although it may not be a strong one; its aspectt with the Moon is relatively close.

I don't see anything else though.

The ManU/Dynamo match tomorrow has a similar chart. Becasue ManU are the likely winners, I think Liverpool should be all right too :wink: