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Will Prohibition prevent or delay a relationship?

 
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Arya



Joined: 16 May 2017
Posts: 25

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:00 am    Post subject: Will Prohibition prevent or delay a relationship? Reply with quote

Hi everyone,

I made an horary chart to know when I will be in a relationship again. My main significator is mars in the 9th house, the 7th house is ruled by Venus which is also in the 9th house applying to Mars in about 5 degrees. The Moon, my second significator, is applying to Venus with a square aspect by about 6 degrees. So I would have guessed something will happen in about 5/6 units of time, being in a mutable sign and cadent house I would guess months.

But the applying aspects are prohibited, Venus will first perfect an aspect to Saturn, Moon to Jupiter, and Mars to Neptune. Does it mean that no relationship will materialise? Or will it materialise after some trials (Saturn) or some wisdom (Jupiter) etc is gained? And if so what would be the timing of this event?

Thank you for your help!

https://imgur.com/a/7ii14cE

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AmeliaS



Joined: 07 Apr 2020
Posts: 250

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I took a quick look. I hope I didn't miss something.

(1a) According to Bonatti, Moon is "currently" with Jupiter, because this is under 51 minutes. This is not a future applying aspect. Hence it does not prohibit; or (1b) Even if you don't subscribe to the above view, I do not think an easy aspect to a benefic, especially when both are dignified, prohibits matters. Here Moon is strong, in Venus's sign, and Jupiter is dignified, also in a fertile sign. This is very good for relationships.

(2) Being conjunct to the degree with the greater benefic is actually a good thing according to Lilly. It earns the planet some points in his planetary score sheet.

(3) Some astrologers consider Moon's next aspect to be with the benefic a very good sign for any matter asked. They do not consider an aspect between principal significators necessary. I found this to be true in my experience, given the major planets aren't afflicted. For a recent example on this forum, see MarkF's thread about his house. (For romance though, Moon/Venus contact is more promising than Moon/Jupiter. This is obvious.)

(4) Venus-Mars: Bonatti said that a conjunction cannot be prohibited by other aspects. I specifically do not think outer planets can prohibit. Traditional astrologers tend to see them as fixed stars.

(5) Moon is very strong and will be received by Venus. Now Bonatti said that aspect with reception trumps one that is without reception. (I think it depends on some other conditions, but I believe this applies here).

(6) The Saturn could be problematic although the Moon beats him to Venus. Here Venus is afflicted by both Mars and Saturn. An opposition to Saturn can be quite destructive and will cause at least delays. House 3 is siblings, neighbours. I hope you'll work out what that could be. I think it can present some problems to the potential relationship.

But overall, I can see a relationship happening. As to timing, with the angles and the major significators being in fixed signs, Moon in a weak house, and Venus and Mars also cadent, I say it will be taking longer than you expect.

Other factors that may signify delays or obstacles: Jupiter being retrograde and Venus and Mars not being in watery or Venusian signs. They are a bit dry and fiery to my liking. But this could be describing the person you are gonna meet.

Amelia
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Arya



Joined: 16 May 2017
Posts: 25

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

THANK YOU for your great answer, it's very detailed and I'm learning a lot. I don't know why I said the sign was mutable, I think because it's in the original 9th house of sagittarius and I mixed things up. With a fixed sign it would then take longer, I hope not 5 years though Shocked

For the fire sign I have actually casted this chart with someone in mind, his sun is extremely strong in his chart so that could explain it. And for now there are impediments to a relationship, although I can't see at all what the 3rd house could mean. It's great to know that overall it's positive, even if it takes time.
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johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1572

Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arya wrote:

For the fire sign I have actually casted this chart with someone in mind, his sun is extremely strong in his chart so that could explain it. And for now there are impediments to a relationship, although I can't see at all what the 3rd house could mean. It's great to know that overall it's positive, even if it takes time.

So did you ask the question about a relationship with this man you had in mind then?
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Arya



Joined: 16 May 2017
Posts: 25

Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I guess I did.
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johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1572

Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you, Arya.

So your question is not a general one, but very concrete.

The really promising application of his Venus to your Mars is indeed prohibited
by Saturn, lord of the 3rd and in the 3rd. So very probably some of your bro-
thers or sisters, or a neighbour, or some rumor, or your own styleof communi-
cation could be the problem.

And your Moon's application to his Sun, prohibited by Jupiter, lord of the 2nd
and 4th, and in the 4th, signifiying your own self-esteem or, because his po-
sition, someone of your own family, or especially your father perhaps.

So, all this is why I would say that a relationship with this man is not delayed
but prohibited.
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Arya



Joined: 16 May 2017
Posts: 25

Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for you answer Johannes. Would your analysis have been different if the question was more general? In which way does it change the way you view the chart?
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johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1572

Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I gave you concrete answers to your question, so I would be delighted, if you
could give me your feedback to these answers as a start, before we might dis-
cuss some hypothetical questions that you actually did not ask.
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Arya



Joined: 16 May 2017
Posts: 25

Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well there is not much I can say about your answer for the moment, maybe I will see the 3rd and 4th house connexion in the future, but for now there is nothing I can say, it doesn't ring a bell at all.

I have no siblings, no neighbors I talk to, we have a great communication, no friends in common who could spread some rumor, so I can't imagine what the 3rd house connexion is. I have no connexion in my family who could possibly object as well, I have only my mother and live very far away from her, and she wouldn't object in any case, we don't have that kind of relationship. About my self esteem maybe, it's always possible to feel unsure about yourself, for example I wouldn't ask him out if he doesn't.

My question is not just about him though, sure I had him in mind but I know it might not happen. So I phrased my question to know WHEN a relationship would happen, with him preferably but otherwise with someone else.
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 1141

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saturn often represents 3rd party issues and in romance charts it can indicate the quesited is with someone else. I would interpret the chart as a mutual romance that is being prohibited by a 3rd party, which could even be a significant other of the quesited. Venus is the one being prohibited here. There may be potential down the road with great patience, as indicated by the cadent Taurus Moon trine Venus being received.

The problem with all of this fire being indicated suggests a passionate connection that may be short lived or comes in waives over a long period of time due to the fixed indicators. This is a day chart where both Mars and Venus are out of sect and further exacerbated in a fire sign. In order for such a connection to last on a real world versus fantasy level, and be more deep versus superficial, there needs to be more focus on things outside of the chemistry between them.

I kind of agree with Amelia that when the Moon aspects the quesited it is usually better. Had the Moon been in say Leo and approaching Saturn before reaching Venus and Mars and even though Venus and Mars were no longer prohibited, I would think the opposite. I would think there is mutual love that is completely inhibited by Saturn from reaching its full potential. Here there is at least some potential.
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Arya



Joined: 16 May 2017
Posts: 25

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tanit3333 wrote:
Saturn often represents 3rd party issues and in romance charts it can indicate the quesited is with someone else. I would interpret the chart as a mutual romance that is being prohibited by a 3rd party, which could even be a significant other of the quesited. Venus is the one being prohibited here. There may be potential down the road with great patience, as indicated by the cadent Taurus Moon trine Venus being received.


This is spot on Tanit, he is indeed with someone else, Saturn represents her very well as well as she is significantly older than him. I know their relationship has been dead for quite some time but I would never EVER do anything to be with him if it doesn't end naturally, if the relationship doesn't run its course by itself. So it's very interesting what you are saying about "There may be potential down the road with great patience" as I know it would take time and I'm in no rush really, but would you have any idea about what kind of timing we are talking about here?
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 1141

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I accidentally said the Moon trined Venus when it squares it after aspecting Jupiter strong on an angle. Benefics on angles are usually positive although this one in retro and therefore not as powerful to do good. That aspect occurs first and is a partile conjunction. It could signal a return to a homeland you both share or something like that, especially since you are in the 9th suggesting far away lands or maybe distance between you in some way (either physical or metaphorical). Cadent aspects are difficult to perfect but if it does it could even be in years (6 years) and come with effort due to the square.

I would assume he probably already has strong feelings for you and that his significant other is causing him to have feelings of oppression. Part of the problem with this type of symbolism is that the obstacles can be what causes the attraction and if they are removed it can be exhausting to keep up the same level of passion. That is why I warn that it is important to create a foundation of a steadfast love rather than one of just passion and longing for what you cannot have.
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Arya



Joined: 16 May 2017
Posts: 25

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for your detailed answer. We actually met in foreign land in a spiritual context, and we meet and talk only about spirituality, so I guess that's where the 9th house connexion is.

I think the relationship is not so much passionate as karmic, as shown in our synastry chart, I would say there is more of a soul level connexion, an intellectual understanding and affinity than a burning passion. It's like seeing a long lost friend and having this immediate intimacy and connexion.

But 6 years is a long time, I guess it's better to let go and stay friends then, and we'll see what the future holds. I'll update in any case if something change! Thanks again all of you for your thoughtful answers.
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AmeliaS



Joined: 07 Apr 2020
Posts: 250

Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arya wrote:
Thank you for your detailed answer. We actually met in foreign land in a spiritual context, and we meet and talk only about spirituality, so I guess that's where the 9th house connexion is.

I think the relationship is not so much passionate as karmic, as shown in our synastry chart, I would say there is more of a soul level connexion, an intellectual understanding and affinity than a burning passion. It's like seeing a long lost friend and having this immediate intimacy and connexion.

But 6 years is a long time, I guess it's better to let go and stay friends then, and we'll see what the future holds. I'll update in any case if something change! Thanks again all of you for your thoughtful answers.


Thank you for your generous and graceful feedback, if I may. Romance charts sometimes drive people crazy and get them extremely defensive although some of them would yell "No, I don't mind the answer at all" when you point that out. That is all very human, but I really appreciate a thoughtful response like yours.

I agree with Tanit about the time frame being years. (Compliments to her point about the Saturn!) Saturn is one to stick around and being retrograde could mean it is extra uncooperative. Just let me add that the degree sometimes does not pan out to be exact, especially when it is this far into the future. The horary chart is a snapshot of the situation. What you do with the difficulties is - yes, totally your choice, and it can influence the outcome, too.

Amelia
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Ouranos



Joined: 28 Mar 2020
Posts: 503

Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arya,
You have already received many judicious comments to your question.
If I may add in terms of timing as it seems to represent 'years' here.
Normally, hours or days = Moon transits
Months = Sun transits
Years = Jupiter and Saturn transits
So watch for Jupiter to blow Hot and Humid into the relationship and Saturn Cold and Dry to refrain and slow down.
Also, the Direct and Retrograde motion of these 2 planets.

I remember where someone had Saturn R Lord of 7th in the 5th. The querent had a baby with a married man. Symbolically by being R this man was looking at his responsibilities over his shoulder (his wife and 2 children) not into the future of the relationship. So yes, sometimes a Retrograde Saturn may not totally thwart your wish but it comes with strings attached. There is a cost.

Wishing you all the best,
Ouranos
_________________
Blessings!
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