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Alcholic brother

 
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AquariusMoonPerson



Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Posts: 87

Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:10 pm    Post subject: Alcholic brother Reply with quote

This is a question I have been wanting to ask a long time. My brother who is in his 30s has been struggling with addiction for almost 12 years or so. I made a horary chart the day I found out he entered rehab. A week or so later he left rehab, saying he "didn't like it". My original question was Will he get better? Meaning will rehab help and will he, in general get healthier? I am worried he will die young. He wants to get help and he knows he is ill. But he can't fight it. These days he is back to drinking.


Looking at the chart I can see a stelliumin the 7th house. He is 3rd house, house of sibling which is Saturn ruled rx in his turned 12th. He was in house of undoing and rx he changed his mind.
Moon in gemini trines his significator. Moon is peregrine in his 5th house. He has a son, would this indicate his son?
Moon about to conjunct mercury, i would like to see this as a second chance return to rehab? We would like him to give rehab another try.
I think mercury trine saturn that would mean he thinks of returning. But he gets upset when I ask him to return . I would like to remain hopeful. What do you see? At times I feel he is a lost cause.
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 1141

Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it were me, I would look at their turned 10th house/lord as the therapy and whether that looks effective (such as its own strength and if it positively aspects the brother or the Moon). Their turned 7th could also represent those working on helping and assigning the plan, so their own strength/weakness would suggest if that looks like a good option for the brother. If this didn't look good, I would look at either other options or another location.

The 5th house also lords things of Venus, which includes drinking, IMO. In questions where you are asking if someone will go back to something and there are retro sigs, it could be going back to therapy but it could also mean going back to drinking so you have to be careful in figuring that out.

Also, Bonatti would say the Moon conjunct the nodes is a difficult placement. This chart is a lunar eclipse chart because you have a Moon-Sun conjunction with the NN. The Moon is also combust since it is a new moon chart too. New Moons that are applying typically show a culmination of something (an ending). Sometimes they can represent things destructive but they can also maybe point to new beginnings since the Moon is being reborn. That would perhaps be an overly positive interpretation if I asked a traditional astrologer about this though.

If you are worried about an early death due to self infliction, one option is having his natal chart assessed by a traditional astrologer who is able to calculate the likelihood of that happening, such as using the hyleg/alcoccoden method, which can be hit or miss, IMO.
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Ouranos



Joined: 28 Mar 2020
Posts: 505

Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2021 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fighting an addiction is like facing your inner ghosts.
Turned chart, we look at the ASC (Aquarius), his Ruler (Saturn), the Moon and the 6th House (Cancer, Moon Ruler)
- Saturn, In Rulership, Fixed and R, we are looking at a long lasting recovery with possibility of a relapse. Saturn also ruling the 12th of rehab.
- The Moon L6 Peregrine, Slow, Waning, Under the Beams, conjunct the NN Eclipse, he cannot see clearly and in Gemini it shows his lack of will power coupled with anxiety. The Mutable position also says that it won't be overcome quickly but it won't be there forever.

Here are a few quotes provided by Nina Gryphon (NG) on what Lilly has to say on Illness.
https://www.ninagryphon.com/
- MoonL6 diseases are “such as do again revert,” [NG: illnesses that are episodic and recurrent].
William Lilly, Christian Astrology (“CA”), p. 247-8
- Moon, ruling the 6th House here Mutable 'A disease that changes and may recur (CA 248)
- The last aspect the Moon does is a conjunction to Mercury R L10 (the cure) under the beams. (Note: David Coleman says that when a planet becomes non-visible because of the Suns light it becomes less physical and more astral in focus) Here it suggests a cure that lift up the spirit and the soul rather than a pill or a medicine. Hard to find a cure here because for your brother the 10th ruled by Mars in Fall in the 8th is useless, so I am using your 10th Mercury, albeit R and under the beams but in Rulership in Gemini. and the Moon applies to it by conjunction.
- The Moon slow in motion and next trining Saturn R L1 and 12, the cure is slow (CA 251-2)
- Moon (co-ruler)L6 will leave Gemini in 19 degrees (days? weeks? months?) and frequently shows a change or improvement in the illness (CA 249,250). And this is when it will move in Cancer (Dignity) conjunct Venus.


- Positive outlet: Venus in the 6th in MR by Exaltation with Jupiter in ASC (also ruling your Sag ASC). Music or the arts would be very beneficial. There are dozens of tangible and non-quantifiable benefits of music or art therapy. Here are some benefits but not limited to:
    Stress and anxiety reduction
    Improved communication
    Meditation
    Improved concentration
    Overall feelings of optimism
    Increased spirituality
    Emotional release
    Increasing motivation.
    Enhancing self-awareness.
    Improving cognition and memory retention.
    Promoting positive social interaction.
    Music is a great social bonding tool. Enjoying music with others around you can create stronger and longer-lasting friendships.
    Supporting a healthy self image.


Best to you and your brother,
Ouranos
_________________
Blessings!
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AmeliaS



Joined: 07 Apr 2020
Posts: 251

Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2021 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He is the slowest planet in a fixed sign. He is going to be stubborn. Retrograde - too weak to receive help yet. What he collects are a new moon and a combust, retrograde mercury. He can't make use of this outside help yet. In elections, New Moon is generally not a good time to get rid of an addiction. For horary, it is not a very good omen, either.

But let's remember Saturn's only friend is you, Jupiter. You are in a strong sign. You are in his house. I would love to believe that you have some influence over him. But again, he might not be very receptive right now. Please take care of yourself and don't stress out. Be patient. I agree with Tanit that for a long-term struggle like this, it might be idea to consult a natal chart astrologer.

Best,
Amelia
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AquariusMoonPerson



Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Posts: 87

Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tanit3333 wrote:
If it were me, I would look at their turned 10th house/lord as the therapy and whether that looks effective (such as its own strength and if it positively aspects the brother or the Moon). Their turned 7th could also represent those working on helping and assigning the plan, so their own strength/weakness would suggest if that looks like a good option for the brother. If this didn't look good, I would look at either other options or another location.

The 5th house also lords things of Venus, which includes drinking, IMO. In questions where you are asking if someone will go back to something and there are retro sigs, it could be going back to therapy but it could also mean going back to drinking so you have to be careful in figuring that out.

Also, Bonatti would say the Moon conjunct the nodes is a difficult placement. This chart is a lunar eclipse chart because you have a Moon-Sun conjunction with the NN. The Moon is also combust since it is a new moon chart too. New Moons that are applying typically show a culmination of something (an ending). Sometimes they can represent things destructive but they can also maybe point to new beginnings since the Moon is being reborn. That would perhaps be an overly positive interpretation if I asked a traditional astrologer about this though.

If you are worried about an early death due to self infliction, one option is having his natal chart assessed by a traditional astrologer who is able to calculate the likelihood of that happening, such as using the hyleg/alcoccoden method, which can be hit or miss, IMO.

Thank you so much for looking. I hadn't realised to look at 10th for therapy. But what you wrote I am optimistic. The 10th house is ruled by mercury rx and under the sun, not very postive. I wonder kf he will fight it his way.
I do worry about an early death as his state gets worse and worse. There was a period in which he was clean but lasted 3 months.
Now I see the rx could be saying he will go back to drinking again.
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AquariusMoonPerson



Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Posts: 87

Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ouranos wrote:
Fighting an addiction is like facing your inner ghosts.
Turned chart, we look at the ASC (Aquarius), his Ruler (Saturn), the Moon and the 6th House (Cancer, Moon Ruler)
- Saturn, In Rulership, Fixed and R, we are looking at a long lasting recovery with possibility of a relapse. Saturn also ruling the 12th of rehab.
- The Moon L6 Peregrine, Slow, Waning, Under the Beams, conjunct the NN Eclipse, he cannot see clearly and in Gemini it shows his lack of will power coupled with anxiety. The Mutable position also says that it won't be overcome quickly but it won't be there forever.

Here are a few quotes provided by Nina Gryphon (NG) on what Lilly has to say on Illness.
https://www.ninagryphon.com/
- MoonL6 diseases are “such as do again revert,” [NG: illnesses that are episodic and recurrent].
William Lilly, Christian Astrology (“CA”), p. 247-8
- Moon, ruling the 6th House here Mutable 'A disease that changes and may recur (CA 248)
- The last aspect the Moon does is a conjunction to Mercury R L10 (the cure) under the beams. (Note: David Coleman says that when a planet becomes non-visible because of the Suns light it becomes less physical and more astral in focus) Here it suggests a cure that lift up the spirit and the soul rather than a pill or a medicine. Hard to find a cure here because for your brother the 10th ruled by Mars in Fall in the 8th is useless, so I am using your 10th Mercury, albeit R and under the beams but in Rulership in Gemini. and the Moon applies to it by conjunction.
- The Moon slow in motion and next trining Saturn R L1 and 12, the cure is slow (CA 251-2)
- Moon (co-ruler)L6 will leave Gemini in 19 degrees (days? weeks? months?) and frequently shows a change or improvement in the illness (CA 249,250). And this is when it will move in Cancer (Dignity) conjunct Venus.


- Positive outlet: Venus in the 6th in MR by Exaltation with Jupiter in ASC (also ruling your Sag ASC). Music or the arts would be very beneficial. There are dozens of tangible and non-quantifiable benefits of music or art therapy. Here are some benefits but not limited to:
    Stress and anxiety reduction
    Improved communication
    Meditation
    Improved concentration
    Overall feelings of optimism
    Increased spirituality
    Emotional release
    Increasing motivation.
    Enhancing self-awareness.
    Improving cognition and memory retention.
    Promoting positive social interaction.
    Music is a great social bonding tool. Enjoying music with others around you can create stronger and longer-lasting friendships.
    Supporting a healthy self image.


Best to you and your brother,
Ouranos


Thank you for your time. He would never join therapy or anything like that. He is so stubborn, he thinks he can cure himself. I am trying to see the postive in this chart.
I am at my wits end. He lives in the states and in his state we cannot force him to go to rehab.
I hope when moon moves into cancer and conjunct venus this is positive.
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AquariusMoonPerson



Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Posts: 87

Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AmeliaS wrote:
He is the slowest planet in a fixed sign. He is going to be stubborn. Retrograde - too weak to receive help yet. What he collects are a new moon and a combust, retrograde mercury. He can't make use of this outside help yet. In elections, New Moon is generally not a good time to get rid of an addiction. For horary, it is not a very good omen, either.

But let's remember Saturn's only friend is you, Jupiter. You are in a strong sign. You are in his house. I would love to believe that you have some influence over him. But again, he might not be very receptive right now. Please take care of yourself and don't stress out. Be patient. I agree with Tanit that for a long-term struggle like this, it might be idea to consult a natal chart astrologer.

Best,
Amelia

Yes, he is stubborn and does what he wants. I do have influence him and he is a bit afraid of my strong reactions. But he won't let me help him. In the past he was receptive but lately he is not, which I think the chart shows. I will be patient ans thanks. All these replies, you guys have no idea how grateful I am.
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 1141

Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2021 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Now I see the rx could be saying he will go back to drinking again.


Rx indicators can suggest a repetitive problem, which makes sense given he has already shown progress and then setbacks. Alcoholism is a lifelong struggle so I wouldn't expect such a question to have easy indicators. I think the eclipse is probably suggesting the same thing everyone has been thinking- he needs to want to help himself but if he doesn't he is going to reach a crisis point which may be difficult or impossible to get back out of. I do think there is some potential to change with hard work though. Saturn of all people understands what hard work is. The problem with Saturn in the 12th is that it joys there meaning that is the energy it knows and understands and falls back into. He needs to break old habits and do something new, which is what Jupiter tends to represent, which is you looking for ways to help him. It is interesting how you are dignified in his house yet you are also in aversion to him so he does not "see" you. This could add on to what Amelia was saying about Saturn's stubborn ways and not wanting to hear your ideas even though he holds you in very high regard and love (Jupiter is in domicile in the brother's house). Jupiter is the only other superior that can really take on Saturn so if anyone can help him I think it is you and I wish you the best of luck. The beautiful Venus-Jupiter trine (with Venus lording the 6th house of self sacrifice and services to others) with mutual reception shows how compassionate and loving you are to your brother.
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Ouranos



Joined: 28 Mar 2020
Posts: 505

Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2021 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Thank you for your time. He would never join therapy or anything like that. He is so stubborn, he thinks he can cure himself. I am trying to see the postive in this chart.
I am at my wits end. He lives in the states and in his state we cannot force him to go to rehab.


I was thinking of a practice of music or the arts for your brother because of the strong emphasis in his 5th (NN, Moon, Sun, Mercury). Not in the sense of a therapy but for his own pleasure. A creative activity. It could be something else, like painting or creative writing. Anything that can stimulate his self-worth and sense of accomplishment even at a minimal level. These planets are in trine with his Saturn. He might find a structure and stability by doing it.
Also watch when Saturn turns Direct in October. Suggesting he will be more approachable and open to changes in his life.
_________________
Blessings!
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 1141

Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ouranos - that is an excellent point that redirecting energies is often important when dealing with a debility and normally when I think of drinking I think especially of a bad Venus energy. I think looking at his natal would especially be helpful to find a better outlet for him. Sometimes it can also be something such as self loathing/feelings of rejection and loneliness seen in Sun-Saturn hard aspects, etc. or a combination of different things. With Saturn sometimes finding others who someone connects with can help them with their loneliness too but that is partly what therapy is for.
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