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Overseas Job Offer - Stay or Go?

 
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AmeliaS



Joined: 07 Apr 2020
Posts: 250

Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 12:46 am    Post subject: Overseas Job Offer - Stay or Go? Reply with quote

My significant other has been offered a permanent position that would result in a pay cut, a loss of pension, and a permanent move from Asia to Europe. A lot is at stake.

My big question is if he'll be happy and well received on the new job. He doesn't like his current role. He needs lots of intellectual stimulation and a level of autonomy to be a happy employee. The new pay is bad news but not a deal breaker. They are offering the maximum salary the position allows. Still it hurts. The Mars in the 8th says it?

If we stay put for another couple of months, another position in the U.S. or a promotion in yet another country might come up. These are being lined up behind the scene.



We have an afflicted Moon right on the Ascendant, our original position. This does not seem to argue for staying. Also, Moon's next aspect is a square with Jupiter. This is with weak mutual reception. Moon's last aspect is a square with a better dignified Saturn but no reception. This favours going, it seems.

Forth-ruler, current home, is a dignified, healthy Saturn not afflicted in any way.

Venus the Descendant Lord, the new position, is received by Sun, the MC-Lord, in a good house. Mars the Ascendant Lord is weak in the 8th. However, Venus is in her detriment and combust. Mars is face-dignified and with Jupiter the diurnal benefic. This says we should stay.

Using Bonatti's triplicity method, the current job, Sun (1st-MC-ruler) is the strongest planet in the chart, is with Venus a benefic, and has a sextile with our Mars with strong reception. The 2nd-MC-ruler is Jupiter, less dignified. This says we should stay, too.

The Moon says go, the other planets seem to tilt towards stay. I think maybe I'm missing something here.

My significant other is willing to accept the offer if the new job means he gets to do what he does best and wants to do, more recognition, less red tapes, and no racism that might prevent promotion. Sadly, we can't ask around. We hardly know anyone in the fold.

We have to get back about this offer within the next few days. It's quite tricky. I reckon I can use your advice.

The Hour Lord is the Moon in the Ascendant.

I'd be grateful for any comment.

Amelia
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Ouranos



Joined: 28 Mar 2020
Posts: 503

Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Amelia,
I would stay and here is why.
Moon conjunct ASC and Serpentis last square Saturn (strong by sign) to square Jupiter (last aspect) of long distance travel. Whatever changes initiated by your significant other would not be beneficial.

I took a sneak peak into the chart in Sidereal (Krishnamurti) and it is even more striking. Jupiter in Capricorn (n Fall) is at 29degrees. And Mercury is also at 29degrees Aquarius and about to leave the sign before the Moon perfects a trine to it. The matter is being dropped.

Wait for a better offer.
Not an easy decision but best wishes in your reflection!

Ouranos
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Last edited by Ouranos on Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 1141

Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the husband should choose a different option than both scenarios. The angles and Moon are fixed so the new situation seems less likely to workout anyway. The move suggests that it would bring financial constraints to me. The current situation has Moon in detriment in the 1st, showing unhappiness. Turned has Mars conjunct NN in the 8th, turned 2nd. The NN augments the nature of Mars and Mars in a financial house brings dispersal of resources rather than stability. I know that this also increases the nature of the 8th house in the stay too though. Both situations suggest financial issues since the current situation also has SN in the 2nd (decrease of substance) and Venus lords the 11th, income/gains from work/salary and it is in detriment, besieged and combust. In the turned situation we have again an emphasis of Mars on the 11th house/gain from work.

Both jobs have dignified rulers but I would choose a dignified Sun over Saturn. Saturn in a fixed sign would suggest longterm stability but the nature of Saturn often brings many trials. I would assess their ability to handle Saturn's energies based on their natal though. If they are someone who is already a very Saturnian person then that may suit them better. In general Sun is usually more benefic though and is in a more fortunate house. Sun is also applying to sextile Mars with Mars receiving it, suggesting some sort of new opportunity at work or some other favorable thing. Regulus is also at the MC.

I would look at a third option. I wouldn't move somewhere that the move is shown as a planet in detriment, besieged and combust and the 2nd/11th houses afflicted. I know no situation is perfect though.

One issue I have with this is that the querent may not have asked the question. I would make sure Mars fits the querent and their current situation.

Any idea what Mercury represents? It is an intercepted lord of the radical 10th in the 4th and the Moon's next aspect after Jupiter, 2nd lord. Since it also lords the turned 2nd and the 2nd is often associated with occupations in traditional astrology as well, it might be describing some other things about the new job. I never like Mercury in detriment with Neptune, because it often suggests some sort of deceit around the job or lack of transparency about something. Mars around the 2nd house in the other job could also point to COVID-19 issues, as it often does in other charts. I have argued with people on this but I have seen Mars lord microorganisms a lot. It could be the pandemic negatively impacts the new situation financially. Since Venus is so afflicted under a sign of Mars, I do think the pandemic could be the problem especially. Also, since Jupiter prohibits the aspect from Moon to Mercury, I think this again points to staying. The 2nd lord can often be as important as the 10th lord in career matters (in natal this is true and the same can be true in horary).

Maybe assess what is going on with his natal right now too and if a job change looks favorable for him.
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Ouranos



Joined: 28 Mar 2020
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Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mercury (Detriment) in the turned 10th ruling the intercepted turned 4th and 2nd.
Financial benefits, even shares and stocks from the company would not be to the 'rendez-vous'. This could have to do with his status in the new country and the homeland laws.
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MarkF



Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Posts: 550
Location: Outside Washington, DC

Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I first noticed about this chart is that the Moon is right on the ASC. The Moon rules the ninth house (travel). The Moon is associated with nervousness. You're nervous about this move. It's on your mind a lot. The antiscia of Saturn is on both the ASC and the Moon. This doubly emphasizes that you you're worried. Saturn rules the 4th house which shows that you're worried about your current home. Your significator Mars is in the 8th house. You're scared. You're scared about your partner's money (2nd from the 7th). As Tanit noted Mars in a house of finances often shows too much spending, in this case of your partner's resources.

Your partner is Venus, combust the Sun and in his detriment. He's in his detriment in a sign that your significator rules. Could it be that what's good for you is bad for him? His situation is very slowly improving at least but he's still lacking power to act or to see clearly. The Sun rules the 10th house of careers so his job is overwhelming him, even though it's profitable as shown by the Part of Fortune being with the Sun. The last aspect Venus made was a sextile to Saturn and her next aspect will be a sextile to Mars. Therefor Venus is translating light from Saturn to Mars. Your partner will be as medium by which agreement is made between your home and you. Saturn rules the 4th house, your home, and is located in the 3rd house. You've probably have had some discussion about your home and this possible move. Venus's next aspect will be a sextile to Mars though Venus will still be combust the Sun. Because of this translation of light, your home will be something that you both agree on. If there will be some sort of agreement between you it will be on you terms because he's in your sign and he's still overwhelmed by his current job. Since Saturn also rules older men and in this chart it rules the father, perhaps an older man or the father of either of you two will assist you in coming to an agreement.

The last aspect of Mars was a square with Mercury, the ruler of his turned 2nd house. The next aspect of Mars will be a trine with Jupiter, the ruler of your 2nd house. The issue of his financial state and how it effects you is a theme to this chart.

The Moon has made a lot of recent aspects in quick succession. While in Scorpio the Moon has made the following:
    Moon trine the Sun at 10° Sco 25'
    Moon square Saturn at 11° Sco 18'
    Moon trine Venus at 11° Sco 42'
Her next aspects will be:
    Moon square Jupiter at 23° Sco 11'
    Moon trine Mercury at 24° Sco 14'

I see a lot of talk about your house (Saturn), your money (Jupiter) and his money (Mercury).

In summary, I'd say that he'll agree with you not to move, based largely on both of you liking your current home, and that he will continue to be overwhelmed by his current job but that his finances will be sound.
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AmeliaS



Joined: 07 Apr 2020
Posts: 250

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My husband decided to decline the job offer today (6 days after offer). Sorry for not getting back sooner. I’m much obliged to your insightful analyses, which allow me to be comfortable with this decision.

Tanit3333 wrote:
I would look at a third option. I wouldn't move somewhere that the move is shown as a planet in detriment, besieged and combust and the 2nd/11th houses afflicted. …In general Sun is usually more benefic though and is in a more fortunate house. Sun is also applying to sextile Mars with Mars receiving it, suggesting some sort of new opportunity at work or some other favorable thing. Regulus is also at the MC. …Also, since Jupiter prohibits the aspect from Moon to Mercury, I think this again points to staying. The 2nd lord can often be as important as the 10th lord in career matters.


Thank you for clarifying all these. Yes, we’re hopeful (hopefully not mistakenly) that something else will work out for him within the next few months. I will update.

Tanit3333 wrote:
I never like Mercury in detriment with Neptune, because it often suggests some sort of deceit around the job or lack of transparency about something. Mars around the 2nd house in the other job could also point to COVID-19 issues, as it often does in other charts. I have argued with people on this but I have seen Mars lord microorganisms a lot. It could be the pandemic negatively impacts the new situation financially. Since Venus is so afflicted under a sign of Mars, I do think the pandemic could be the problem especially.


Ouranos wrote:
Mercury (Detriment) in the turned 10th ruling the intercepted turned 4th and 2nd.
Financial benefits, even shares and stocks from the company would not be to the 'rendez-vous'. This could have to do with his status in the new country and the homeland laws.


There are two aspects that lack transparency. The first is promotion prospect. My husband asked; the interviewer’s response was understandably skilful. It is of concern because organisations of their nature are often known to reward manager favourites instead of good workers. Tanit's suspicion here echoed mine.

The other thing is stock trade regulations, indeed, Ouranos. The better part of our assets is in the market, and at first it didn't occur to us the new position might forbid this. We asked after reading you guys - it did.

Tanit3333 wrote:
One issue I have with this is that the querent may not have asked the question. I would make sure Mars fits the querent and their current situation.


It happened like this: my husband told me he received the offer. I told my husband we should cast a horary chart about our situation. I think Gemini in Mars fits him. He is an intellectual at work, growing impatient about the lack of research work, and eager for change. Incidentally, Gemini is prominent in my natal chart.

Ouranos wrote:
Hello Amelia,
I would stay and here is why.
Moon conjunct ASC and Serpentis last square Saturn (strong by sign) to square Jupiter (last aspect) of long distance travel. Whatever changes initiated by your significant other would not be beneficial.

I took a sneak peak into the chart in Sidereal (Krishnamurti) and it is even more striking. Jupiter in Capricorn (n Fall) is at 29degrees. And Mercury is also at 29degrees Aquarius and about to leave the sign before the Moon perfects a trine to it. The matter is being dropped.

Wait for a better offer.
Not an easy decision but best wishes in your reflection!


I think in Sidereal the ascendant is Libra. I could PM you the time and place if you want to verify.

MarkF wrote:
Your partner is Venus… in his detriment in a sign that your significator rules. Could it be that what's good for you is bad for him?


The move could’ve benefited my career, though I don’t in particular like the country in question.

MarkF wrote:
Because of this translation of light, your home will be something that you both agree on. If there will be some sort of agreement between you it will be on you terms because he's in your sign and he's still overwhelmed by his current job.


Yes, the husband would’ve deferred to my decision had I insisted.

MarkF wrote:
Since Saturn also rules older men and in this chart it rules the father, perhaps an older man or the father of either of you two will assist you in coming to an agreement.


You'd be delighted to hear that a few older men have chimed in and aided our decision. One was his former supervisor, one was my mentor, the other was a professional who had worked in the new place for 20 years, whom we have just crossed paths with by sheer coincidence. (!) Among the three, my mentor was the most helpful.

MarkF wrote:
The last aspect of Mars was a square with Mercury, the ruler of his turned 2nd house. The next aspect of Mars will be a trine with Jupiter, the ruler of your 2nd house. The issue of his financial state and how it effects you is a theme to this chart. …I see a lot of talk about your house (Saturn), your money (Jupiter) and his money (Mercury).


This is so. The sharp pay cut made me nervous. No way to lie to a horary chart, eh? You are right "what kind of house will we live in..." came up a lot.

Tanit3333 wrote:
Both situations suggest financial issues since the current situation also has SN in the 2nd (decrease of substance) and Venus lords the 11th, income/gains from work/salary and it is in detriment, besieged and combust. In the turned situation we have again an emphasis of Mars on the 11th house/gain from work.


His current income is quite decent, but any salary increase will be slow and there could be little advancement to hope for. Being stationed in Asia also makes it difficult for him to manage his US stock profile.

MarkF wrote:
In summary, I'd say that he'll agree with you not to move, based largely on both of you liking your current home, and that he will continue to be overwhelmed by his current job but that his finances will be sound.


And so he did. Yes, finances will be sound enough to maintain our lifestyle. Not lavish, but comfortable enough.

In gratitude,
Amelia
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Wisdom Joy



Joined: 12 Aug 2020
Posts: 154

Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just wanted to say thank you so much for all the insight to this chart. I learned so much and have been following it closely.

Happy everything worked out also Amelia, fingers crossed and positive energy for a new and better offers to come.
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WJ
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AmeliaS



Joined: 07 Apr 2020
Posts: 250

Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some good news: my husband got an offer in Northern Europe. It is an internal transfer within the same company. The outcome, although isn't something he would describe as his perfect dream job, is the best we can hope for.

There was a lovely twist of fate:

There were two rounds of internal transfers. The first round usually placed most of the applicants, and the second round was mostly for leftovers - jobs and candidates that nobody picked. Well, my husband failed at the first round. I think that was because he only applied for the most competitive positions. And oh, boy, wasn't he down in the dumps when he knew he wasn't picked.

But miraculously, this Northern Europe vacancy, which he hadn't considered in the first round because technically he'd thought he wasn't the best fit - was still open. Now this is a jolly good job. Not catch whatsoever. It was only by some miracle everybody overlooked it in the first round. We still can't explain that.

So he applied, the manager happened to really like him and personally reached out to HR to spur the whole thing on. Within a couple of working days all fell into place. We were positively astonished.

Thank you for all the input, guys. It was most valuable.

Amelia
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johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1569

Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for the update with so happy news.

My best wishes for your and your husband's

future in Northern Europe, Amelia.

Johannes
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Ouranos



Joined: 28 Mar 2020
Posts: 503

Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2021 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good luck for the future Amelia!

Ouranos

PS - I am being reminded of a 403 Forbidden error for the past couple of days. Like the system telling us to pause!
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Wisdom Joy



Joined: 12 Aug 2020
Posts: 154

Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congrats, Amelia! Wishing you so much success of this big and wonderful move!
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WJ
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