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Are We Getting Kicked Out?
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MarkF



Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Posts: 550
Location: Outside Washington, DC

Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:05 am    Post subject: Are We Getting Kicked Out? Reply with quote

I found out that the landlord might want to knock my house down and put up a new one. If so we'll have to move by May 1, about a month away. This is a huge shock. I've been here for eleven years. I asked if I could have a couple of more months to stay because I was planning on moving out anyways in the summer. I'd like to know if we can stay till the summer as I hoped or will I be forced to move in a few weeks?

Underneath this immediate potential crisis is the idea that I actually do want to move. I've been thinking about this very move for almost twenty years. When the question came to though I was only thinking about the immediate crisis of being asked to move in about thirty days. However I'm not ready to move right now, not by a long shot.

The data is: March 25, 2021, 8:48 PM EDT in Falls Church VA.



I'm Venus, cazimi with the Sun. Venus is in her fall in Aries while the Sun is in his exaltation. Being cazimi is supposed to be a wondrously strong thing according to Lilly. They are both cadent though so this might not do much for me. The royal fixed star of Spica is right on the ASC. My experience with fixed stars is that they give both great luck and great misfortune but in general show unusual and uncommon events. The website The Constellation of Words says about Spica:
Quote:
If rising or culminating: Unbounded good fortune, happiness, ecclesiastical preferment, unexpected honor or advancement beyond native’s hopes or capacity. [Robson, p.211.]

To sum up the ASC and its ruler, we have Venus in her fall but cazimi the Sun which itself is very strong in essential dignity but weak in accidental dignity, plus Spica is on the ASC. I'd guess that the positive outweighs the negative here but I'm not objective here which is why I posted this.

The Sun rules no house but it does rule the Moon. The Moon is right on the cusp of the 11th house at 28° Leo. It has no more aspects to make. The Moon and the cusp of the 11th house are also conjunct another royal fixed star, this time Regulus. From the the same website Regulus means:
Quote:
With Moon: Occult interests, powerful friends, danger from enemies and false friends, gain by speculation, public prominence, great power, honor, wealth, benefits seldom last, violence, trouble and sickness. Make women high spirited and independent. If at the same time the Sun is with the Dragon’s Head in Gemini, or Jupiter is in the 10th house in trine to Mars and the Sun is with the Dragon’s Head, great preferment even from the lowest sphere to high rank. [Robson, p.196.]

Here's where it gets a little confusing for me. The landlord would be ruled by the 7th house ruler Mars, which is situated in the 8th house and conjunct the North Node, usually a sign of good luck. Mars only has dignity by Face, the lowest form of essential dignity. That would mean that Mars is displaying his bad side. Venus is moving to be sextile Mars but will be prohibited first by the Sun and then by Saturn. Any agreement between the landlord and I will be thwarted by the Sun. What does the Sun signify? It doesn't rule any house but it does rule the Moon, which is on the cusp of the very lucky 11th house and conjunct Regulus. Mercury rules the 11th house and Mercury is conjunct the Part of Fortune. These all look like good signs.

What about my house? It's signified by the 4th house and its ruler Saturn. Saturn is in its own sign. Being in its own sign, and a fixed sign at that, it does what it wants to and is not subject to outside influences. This is doubly so because Saturn is in the 4th house and is angular.

This is certainly an unusual chart. There are two royal fixed stars involved and the ASC ruler is cazimi. These are all powerful signs of a good outcome. However the two main significators do not come together. Does this mean that, yes, we will have to move in thirty days but everything will be well? I don't know. As I said at the beginning, I do want to move, just not so soon and at my own speed.

If anyone has any input I'd be glad to hear from you.

Thanks
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AmeliaS



Joined: 07 Apr 2020
Posts: 251

Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think you'll be forced to move so soon. Mars is in a bad house, but the 9th sign from the ascendant is fortunate. He is in one of his lesser dignity and beholding the ascendant. (In fact, most planets behold the ascendant.) Since this is a night chart, Mars also has hayz being above the horizon. All these put a damp on Mars' malice. What's more, it receives Venus, though the aspect is not immediate.

Bonatti says,

"A most weak open Helper is when the Significator is in some of his greater Dignities, or two of his lesser, not beholding the Ascendant; or in one of his lesser Dignities; only beholding the same [the Ascendant], or joined to a Planet that beholds the same, and has some Dignities therein."

I wouldn't say that the Sun is malicious here, either. He has essential dignity and not combusting anything, which would have rendered him hostile. Sure he's preventing Venus' aspect with Mars, but must we have that contact? I think Venus' connection with Sun here, which is your immediate aspect, and hence carries the most weight, is fortunate. Sun is naturally associated with those who are in power. Here the landlord is no doubt in the powerful position that can inspire fear, if he intends ill.

The Moon being void could mean a period of inactivity, which is what you want. I think a chart with a void moon could prove difficult to judge, though. I tend to avoid it personally, especially if it didn't have hour agreement.

No angle is fixed. Neither of your sig is angular. This might respond to your wish to move in summer, which is not a long way away.

I'm not sure how to interpret the sextile between Venus and Saturn, the house, though. It worries me a bit because Venus applies from Saturn's fall, which Bonatti doesn't like. It's a sextile; at least Saturn does not afflict Venus.

Good luck with the move (when you want it), and hope you recover soon.

Amelia
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MarkF



Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Posts: 550
Location: Outside Washington, DC

Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks so much Amelia.

Does Mars behold the ASC though? It's a rather wide moiety at 10°. I'd place it at the tail end of the 8th house, which is better than being on the cusp of the 8th house. Jupiter is trine the ASC though and that's never a bad sign.

What is your impression of those two fixed stars? Spica being 1° from the ASC and Regulus with the Moon seem important. I usually see the fixed stars as a sign of unusual destiny. Years ago I put up a chart about my cat who had to go through surgery to remove a tumor. There were two fixed stars involved in that chart too, joined with the main significators. After the surgery the vet told me that the cat had a few weeks to live, maybe a few months at best. She was seventeen at the time. She lived for another four years. In today's chart I thought that these two fixed stars, plus perhaps Venus being cazimi, relate more to my desire to move out of state in the summer. That move is something I've talked about doing for twenty years. It's been a dream of mine that I've always put off.

I also wondered about that coming sextile between Venus and Saturn. Since Saturn signifies my house, I wondered whether this shows that the house blocks any deal with the landlord. In other words her schedule for knocking the house down (contractors, work permits) prevents her from reaching a deal with me. I tended to downplay this because that conjunction of Venus with the Sun already blocks the perfection of the matter, and like you said, the Sun could signify the owner of the house. I hadn't thought of it this way until you mentioned it but the owner, Mars, lets Venus into his house.

Time will tell but I wish I had a more faith in my ability to read a chart so I'd have some solace.

Thanks again.
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AmeliaS



Joined: 07 Apr 2020
Posts: 251

Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

21-year-old cat, Mark! Splendid.

If I understand Bonatti and Masha'allah correctly, beholding the Ascendant by sign should suffice. Barbara Dunn, who reiterates this medieval emphasis on Beholding in her book, holds this view.

William Lilly gives any planet a +6 score whenever it is conjunct Regulus (+5 for Spica). It doesn't matter which planet it is. Bonatti sure values a significator's conjunction with fixed stars, too, but he takes into consideration the planet's nature, i.e. whether it's compatible with the fixed star it is conjunct, and the planet's own strength, when it comes to how effectively these fixed stars can help. I'm not sure I understand everything he says, but I think he means, for example, Venus conjunct Spica should do even better than Saturn conjunct Spica. He gives a discursive account of these among his 146 considerations.

Lilly doesn't make such a distinction. I don't recall either Bonatti or Lilly commenting on what happen when fixed stars are conjunct angles. I wish I knew more.

MarkF wrote:
I'd place it at the tail end of the 8th house, which is better than being on the cusp of the 8th house.


Agreed. In fact, Petros Eleftheriadis, Head Tutor QHP, would say that Mars here has far more allegiance to the 9th than the 8th, being so close to the 9th cusp and in the same sign with the 9th (this is from his book). Bonatti considers the first 15 degrees after a house cusp the most effective area.

Amelia
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MarkF



Joined: 22 Oct 2003
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Location: Outside Washington, DC

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How does Mars in Gemini behold the Libra ASC?
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AmeliaS



Joined: 07 Apr 2020
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Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

By trine, Mark. As a factor in determining whether a planet is a helper or hinderer, all major aspects by sign to the Ascendant constitute beholding. This is my understanding/opinion. (Barbara Dunn's, too, p108)
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MarkF



Joined: 22 Oct 2003
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Location: Outside Washington, DC

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sorry if I came across as contradicting you. I've not studied Bonatti so these whole sign aspects are unfamiliar to me.

Setting this chart aside I get the impression that we will be kicked out in thirty days. The property manager will not take my calls or respond to my text messages. I think he's waiting to April 1 to give me notice to move out.
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
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Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This chart has mixed testimony but Void Moon charts are rarely positive. Also, I guess Abu Mashar said that a cazimi planet is like a man purifying himself, being weak but will become strong later. I wonder if that is describing the new build process for the seller and also maybe the querent with changes in their own life.

Regarding a void Moon though, most would agree this is the main idea:

Quote:
If you find the Moon void of all the planets, none of them aspects it, and none is in the ascendant or aspecting the ascendant, then this native is void of good in livelihood, possesses pain and hardship in the pursuit of what he needs. Dorotheus


The Moon does separate from an opp to Jupiter, but that could be representing something that is leading to the current situation. Maybe since Jupiter represents wealth and opportunities, it is just showing the strength of sellers right now and this being a problem for the tenant here. It could also be that renting might be becoming less appealing to the person who owns the real estate.

Normally when I see a fixed Moon and fixed 4th lord I think of lack of a forced move but when a void Moon is involved I have a harder time believing that. I think Mars in the 8th is just emphasizing the 7th lord in their 2nd - their 2nd lord is in detriment but cazimi and they want to take a gamble and tear down and rebuild, probably to make a larger sell in the end. Sometimes that can lead to a much bigger profit than updating an old build.

If this were my situation I would just prepare myself just in case. If they do ask you to leave they still should give at least 30 days notice. I wonder if the fixed indicators are because the seller is low on money and this may take longer but with cardinal angles I am just not sure. Mars has face dignity and views Venus as a friend (it is the only planet it regards as a friend), according to Lilly, so it is hard to see them throwing you out short notice though.

Did the seller tell you of these plans or is it just hearsay? Maybe the Moon-Jupiter opp is just gossip.
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Ouranos



Joined: 28 Mar 2020
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Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello MarkF,
Aren't you protected by the Federal law which says that you should usually get at least 90 days' notice to move out. It's important that you keep paying your rent and keep following the terms of your lease. Which could represent the Venus Cazimi here in the 6th House of renting.
Do you have a lease or is it on a month-to-month rental?
Otherwise, I would agree that the Moon Void indicates that there is nothing else you can do and that you will be kicked out.
Adding Mercury (natural ruler of moves) conjunct Fortuna shows a protection for you but squaring MarsL7 can lead to litigations.

Good luck and please keep us updated,
Ouranos
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MarkF



Joined: 22 Oct 2003
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Location: Outside Washington, DC

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tanit3333 said:
Quote:
Also, I guess Abu Mashar said that a cazimi planet is like a man purifying himself, being weak but will become strong later. I wonder if that is describing ...the querent with changes in their own life.

I'm frankly terrified at the idea of having to move by May 1 with such little notice. The covid scare has destroyed my business. I'm still getting unemployment money from the government through August but I don't have a job. I don't have a car either and I need one to move. The ironic part is that I really do want to move, just not so suddenly. I've been dreaming of this move for years, if not more. I want out of this area. I have money saved up to both buy a new car and do the move, which is more expensive than I thought but my plans were to do this by July 1 or August 1, not May 1.

My initial question was whether I'd be forced to move at all, but perhaps the chart is about my long term desire to move. There are a lot of mixed signs in this chart, notably the prohibition of perfection between the ASC ruler Venus and the 7th house ruler Mars, and the void of course Moon. There are many positive signs here as well, almost unusually so, those being Spica on the ASC, my signigificator being cazimi, the Moon conjunct Regulus, Jupiter trine the ASC and as Amelia pointed out above, Mars beholding the ASC by sign, albeit Mars being a weak helper. I am increasingly of the opinion that this chart shows that the forthcoming move will be a very fortuitous one, even if it is not on my schedule.

Quote:
I think Mars in the 8th is just emphasizing the 7th lord in their 2nd.

Yes. The owner is interested in her money. She is thinking about knocking this little house down and putting up a McMansion to make a killing. She's a horrible landlord and the only work that's been done here is when I've threatened to file a complaint with the county.

Quote:
If this were my situation I would just prepare myself just in case

I am. I've already have a moving truck ready. I am looking at cars to buy. Even if I don't find a new house by May 1, I can put my stuff in storage and rent an AirBnB until I do. The moving truck comes with two months of free storage. To be honest, a move on May 1 will be better for me financially as my current house is more expensive to rent than any prospective house where I'm looking.

Quote:
Did the seller tell you of these plans or is it just hearsay?

They had a repairman in here to rebuild the bathroom floor. He told me that the owner asked him personally to hire guys to knock this house down and put a new one up. The only reason they rebuilt the bathroom floor was because I threatened to call the county. The old floor was about to cave in. When I asked the property manager about this, he told me he'd ask the owner. That was last week. He hasn't called me, he won't answer the phone when I call and hasn't responded to my text messages.

Ouranous said:
Quote:
Do you have a lease or is it on a month-to-month rental?

We do have a lease but it's over with at the end of April. That was my mistake in not noticing that. We usually do the lease from May to May but the owner procrastinated and we didn't sign the lease until July. I forgot that she still did the lease from May to May.

I have long history with this owner and her property manager. I've been here for eleven years. In the past we've had a lot of conflicts. The pattern has always been that there's a lot of noise and heat but that they always end up doing what I've asked for. Maybe they will agree to let me stay till the summer as I've asked but that the fact that the property manager won't communicate with me gives me pause. I suspect that they are waiting for me to pay the rent for April, which is due before April 1, and then on April 1 tell me that I have to move on May 1. I'll know by Thursday.
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
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Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Besides looking at whether primary sigs look longterm, when I ask about moving questions I view it as a 7th house matter (the stay or go approach) so one thing I would expect when moving immediately would be to aspect the 7th lord/planets in the 7th or be in the 7th and I don't see that. As you mentioned, Venus is prohibited from aspecting Mars by the Sun (being cazimi).

Is there legal protection in your area regarding you having to move if the seller does not plan on using the property to live in themselves, etc? COVID has had some extra protection in my area that makes it very difficult for sellers to get rid of tenants.
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MarkF



Joined: 22 Oct 2003
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Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Tanit,

Besides trying to read my chart I always use them to learn some more technique. I'm curious about this "stay or go" approach and how that relates to the 7th house. Usually I think of the 7th house as symbolic of the "other," a spouse, an enemy, a thief, the opposing party in a legal matter, etc. How does that come into this idea of the "stay or go" approach?

I used the 7th house to signify the owner of the house because she's a business partner. I follow John Frawley in thinking that the 6th house does not indicate a tenant anymore for the simple reason that a modern tenant doesn't call the owner of the property "My Lord" anymore. The 6th is for people who are subservient to us and the modern landlord - tenant relationship is more of business dealing between equals.

I'm going to look into legal matters when and if it comes to that. I kind of think that these covid restrictions only apply if someone can't pay the rent.
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
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Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 7th is often used in moving questions and represents removals and relocation. Anthony Louis has an article about it that sums it up better than I have time for at the moment:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/tonylouis.wordpress.com/2020/06/09/lilly-on-removing-from-one-place-to-another/amp/
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Ouranos



Joined: 28 Mar 2020
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Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

90 days
The law protects your right to stay in your home. After a foreclosure is over, you should usually get at least 90 days' notice to move out. During and after the foreclosure process, it's important that you keep paying your rent and keep following the terms of your lease.

If you have to move May 1st, that means you should have received the notice by February 1st 2021.

My suggestion would be to consult a local tenant association about your rights.

Best,
Ouranos
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MarkF



Joined: 22 Oct 2003
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Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I finally heard back from the property manager about this. The owner is not knocking the house down and we can stay indefinitely. She's agreed to let my current roommates stay on in here if they want if I decide to move later in the summer.

With hindsight I can see the void of course Moon as showing no events are forthcoming. The ASC ruler and 7th house rulers didn't need to perfect an aspect to show us continuing to live in the house. There were just too many good signs here to show a forced, traumatic move - my significator being cazimi, two fixed stars involved, etc.

If anyone has anything else to add, feel free. Thanks to all.
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