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Modern authors on Tajika
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Martin Gansten
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Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:55 pm    Post subject: Modern authors on Tajika Reply with quote

In another thread, James asked:

Quote:
who do you think is a present day author on tajika in india who is doing good work that you would recommend? i have mentioned dr. charak a number of times here at skyscript.. are you familiar with his work and if so, what do you think of it??

I have seen K.S. Charak's A Textbook of Varshaphala, as well as a few others (including B. V. Raman's oddly named Varshaphal or the Hindu Progessed Horoscope). They are largely based on Nīlakaṇṭha's 16th-century work, including its sometimes misunderstood or half-understood applications of Perso-Arabic techniques, similar to (but, if I may say so, less accurate than) what you will find in my Open Access translation of The Jewel of Annual Astrology.

If you want techniques that work in practice, my personal recommendation would be to read Ben Dykes's translations of Sahl and other Arabic-language authors, but to keep implementing their techniques in the sidereal zodiac, which is what their Persian predecessors (and, later, the Indians) did.
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james_m



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Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks martin! one other question which is somewhat related...

in the book i am reading of yours, there has been great emphasis on the egyptian terms... do you consider nakshatras and if so, how to do balance the different rulers and positions of these planets with these 2 separate and distinct ways of understanding a chart?? i think it is an important question as in my present studies of indian astrology, terms are not discussed in what i have seen.. however nakshatras and the sub lords and etc. etc. of the nakshatras are very much discussed and put in focus... how do you grapple with these 2 different systems, if at all?? thanks james

ps - i have ben dykes sahl book from the past year, but have yet to read it fully... it is tempting to pick up a hard copy of your brill book.. i have been thinking of it the past few days.. it is much more enjoyable to read a hard copy, then a copy on the internet! thanks.
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

James wrote:
Quote:
ps - i have ben dykes sahl book from the past year, but have yet to read it fully... it is tempting to pick up a hard copy of your brill book.. i have been thinking of it the past few days.. it is much more enjoyable to read a hard copy, then a copy on the internet! thanks.

James, if you can afford it, I'd buy the hard copy of the book. It's very nicely printed on acid free paper. But be prepared! Due to the fine paper quality, the book must weigh 4 or 5 pounds! I pick it up with both hands. 1030 pages. But the book will have great re-sale value once it's out of print. I bought Pingree's two volume Yavanajataka for around $90 when it was published. It's now offered used on Amazon for $250 to $1000. The nice thing about the cover of Martin's book is that the cover illustration is part of the binding and not a paper slip-cover.

Dr. Charak isn't a practicing astrologer. He's a medical doctor with a gift for clear writing on India's astrology. He studies the classics. The blurb on the back of his latest book Laghu Parashari published in 2020 states: "Senior Consultant and Chief of General Surgery, Indian Spinal Injuries Centre Vasant Kunj, New Delhi." I always recommend his books to students. His presentation of India's astrology is more traditionally genuine than many modern books. But he still makes the mistake of including the so-called tropical elements in his basic book, moving them to a sidereal zodiac. (But Tajika has the four sign elements due to its source material.)
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Last edited by Therese Hamilton on Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Martin Gansten
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Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

james_m wrote:
in the book i am reading of yours, there has been great emphasis on the egyptian terms... do you consider nakshatras and if so, how to do balance the different rulers and positions of these planets with these 2 separate and distinct ways of understanding a chart?? i think it is an important question as in my present studies of indian astrology, terms are not discussed in what i have seen.. however nakshatras and the sub lords and etc. etc. of the nakshatras are very much discussed and put in focus... how do you grapple with these 2 different systems, if at all??

The short answer is that I don't personally use the nakṣatras, or indeed any exclusively Indian techniques, anymore. (I do pay some attention to individual fixed stars, but that's a different matter.) Back in the 1990s I experimented a good deal with Krishnamurti Paddhati, but over the past couple of decades I have taken a greater interest in earlier (ancient/medieval) forms of astrology.

Several versions of the terms are attested from the Hellenistic era, of which the so-called Egyptian terms seem quite close to the earliest known Mesopotamian version. Pre-Islamic Indian astrology had its own version, known as the triṃśāṃśa, although its use seems to have been somewhat restricted. When the Egyptian terms entered India with the Tājika system, they were sometimes called triṃśāṃśa, too, but most of the time they were referred to as hadda/haddā, from the Arabic word ḥadd.

The subdivision of nakṣatras into unequal parts corresponding to Viṃśottarī subperiods is a fairly recent development, or at least not mentioned in any textual sources that I am aware of prior to the 20th century. The first author I know of who mentioned them was 'Meena' (R. Gopalakrishna Row), in this book. The system was then picked up and developed by K.S. Krishnamurti, who was sometimes criticized for not acknowledging his source.
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james_m



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Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

martin and therese - okay... thanks! good to know! james
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martin wrote:
Quote:
The subdivision of nakṣatras into unequal parts corresponding to Viṃśottarī subperiods is a fairly recent development, or at least not mentioned in any textual sources that I am aware of prior to the 20th century. The first author I know of who mentioned them was 'Meena' (R. Gopalakrishna Row), in this book. The system was then picked up and developed by K.S. Krishnamurti, who was sometimes criticized for not acknowledging his source.

There is a book by 'Meena' (R. Gopalakrishna Row) that mentions the subdivisions of Viṃśottarī? I thought this system was totally K.S. Krishnamurti's invention. Is Meena's book still available? I see that S.P. Khullar does mention Meena in his introductory book, but says nothing about him coming before Krishnamurti.
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Martin Gansten
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Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is. If you click the words 'this book' in my previous post, there is a link to an online version. (I know you prefer hard copies, as do I, but I'm not sure if it is still available as such.) Meena didn't emphasize the subdivisions the way KSK did, but they are in there somewhere. Sorry I can't be more precise; I read those volumes about 30 years ago...
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Martin Gansten
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Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trying to refresh my memory with the help of a quick web search, I am reminded that Row referred to these divisions as 'Kalamsa', which I suppose means कालांश kālāṃśa or 'time divisions' (it matters whether the first a is long or short).
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martin Ganseten wrote:
Quote:
Back in the 1990s I experimented a good deal with Krishnamurti Paddhati, but over the past couple of decades I have taken a greater interest in earlier (ancient/medieval) forms of astrology.

Martin, did you find some problems with Krishnamurti Paddhati or did the KP system not interest you? In the last two years off and on I'm been looking into Krishnamurti's and Khullar's books, so I'm interested in your experiences with this nakshatra system. Of course, after reading your books I realize that there are corruptions of principles in India's astrology, though not in the KP system as such. (Yes, the KP books are almost unreadable. They are so badly written without a good English editor.)

Quote:
Trying to refresh my memory with the help of a quick web search, I am reminded that Row referred to these divisions as 'Kalamsa'.

So S.P. Khullar has adopted the term 'Kalamsa' for his Cuspal Interlinks Theory. His books have only been published since 2004. I wanted to do a lot of research on this system, but now find my age a handicap to study.

I found an Indian company that has published a facsimile copy of Row's books. They're very inexpensive by western standards.
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Martin Gansten
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Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found KP interesting and theoretically appealing in several ways, but ultimately it didn't perform as well as promised. There was more ambiguity than the KP readers (which are largely a jumble of old articles from the magazine Astrology and Athrishta [adṛṣṭa = 'the unseen', fate]) would lead you to think, and I noticed a tendency to 'add epicycles': if the answer is not in the sub, it's in the sub-sub. etc.

Also, I think there is a mechanical streak to KP, with a great deal of emphasis on finding the appropriate house connections but comparatively little on quality. The sub lord of the 7th cusp may be in the star of a planet in the 7th house, fine, but is that planet an exalted Venus or a fallen Saturn? I don't recall that sort of consideration coming up much.
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pankajdubey



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Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never understood KP system.
Vimshottari is the main dasa system for me but to get it working:
Laghu parashari is a must.
Phaladeepika of Mantreshwara deals with Vimshottari (? 16th Century - South India)
Bhavarth Ratnakar and Uttara Kalamrita of Kalidasa are helpful maverick oddities.
and a book on Yoga combinations .
That is about it .
I have tried two Ayanamsha - Lahiri and Raman- once you have lived long enough both would explain most of the vents in life.

chapter 19
http://jyotishvidya.com/HTMLobj-9415/Mantreswara_s__Phaladeeplka_.pdf
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you, Martin, for your comments. I haven't done much research with cuspal positions (only with actual house positions of planets), but in theory Placidus cusps seem unworkable as too many cusps can be ruled by the same planet. It becomes mind boggling if sub subs are used.

But I find it appealing if there really is a lunar zodiac as per the current measurement of the 27 mansions (nakshatras), and small sections of the zodiac really are associated with various planets. That would be very significant for finding the precise starting point of the sidereal zodiac.

Pankajdubey wrote:
Quote:
Vimshottari is the main dasa system for me but to get it working:
Laghu parashari is a must.

KP is used in conjunction with standard Vimshottari timing, but results often do seem connected to the mansion lord of the Vimshottari planets for timing. This is one reason I've continued to study KP (and Khullar Interlinks Theory).
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james_m



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Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pankajdubey wrote:

Laghu parashari is a must.
chapter 19
http://jyotishvidya.com/HTMLobj-9415/Mantreswara_s__Phaladeeplka_.pdf


pankajdubey... when you say laghu parashari is a must - you are referring to a copy of the book, right?? dr. charak recently came out with an interpretation of this book.. i enjoyed reading it.. he gave some interesting insights on the dasas and strength of yogas which caught my attention... stuff like having a saturn rule both the 8th and 9th - gemini ascendant - takes away from the value of any yoga (and dasa as a consequence) with saturn in it.. stuff like that...

thanks for the link to a copy of Phaladeeplka.. i have yet to read that...
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martin Gansten wrote: (18 January)
Quote:
The subdivision of nakṣatras into unequal parts corresponding to Viṃśottarī subperiods is a fairly recent development, or at least not mentioned in any textual sources that I am aware of prior to the 20th century. The first author I know of who mentioned them was 'Meena' (R. Gopalakrishna Row), in this book. The system was then picked up and developed by K.S. Krishnamurti, who was sometimes criticized for not acknowledging his source.

After some Internet searching I found a facsimile copy of Row's three books, nicely printed at a very reasonable price. (www.gyan books.com) These books (in one bound copy) are surprisingly well written and easy to read: Nadi Jyothisha or The stellar System of Astrology (1954 original date).

From what I've read so far Row/Meena stays with the basic nakshatras and house lords. He apparently uses only whole sign houses, and in his many illustrations shows how emphasizing such placements as exaltations or planets in debility can actually give incorrect readings compared to planets in nakshatras, their rulers and how they relate to houses. In many ways his examples and explanations make more sense and are more clear than sources of the Krishnamurti system in print today.

So apparently the concept of subdividing the nakshatras into unequal parts corresponding to Viṃśottarī sub-periods is original with K.S. Krishnamurti. Krishnamurti also added Placidus house cusps which seem unworkable to me. Then S. P. Khullar took the concept further by subdividing the sub-divisions which Krishnamurti used.

No doubt, these nakshatra systems of Row, K.S. Krishnamurti and S.P. Khullar are thoroughly Indian with only nods given to the zodiac as planetary lords of the 12 houses.
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Martin Gansten
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Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a quick browse through Meena's/Row's books but couldn't find the subdivisions used for interpretation either (though there are tables of the 'Dasa Bhukthi Degrees' at the beginning of vol. 3). That is annoying, because I know that he did mention the idea somewhere (and I'm pretty sure he called it 'Kalamsa'). Not only do I recall seing it myself (back in the '90s), but I remember reading indignant letters from readers (or at least one letter) in old issues of B.V. Raman's Astrological Magazine, complaining that Krishnamurti had taken the idea from Meena without acknowledging it. I don't think those are all false memories, but locating the sources after several decades would require time that I can't spare at present.

Meena's ideas seem to have developed gradually. During my browse just now I was reminded that he occasionally put emphasis on the quarters of a nakṣatra, so that if a malefic is present in the 2nd quarter, the 2nd quarter of the corresponding daśā would give evil results. This seems a possible halfway stage towards the ninefold subdivision.
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