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What Primary Directions software do you use?
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Martin Gansten
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Location: Malmφ, Sweden

Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 9:24 am    Post subject: What Primary Directions software do you use? Reply with quote

Much has happened since I made a survey of astrology software offering primary directions in my textbook more than a decade ago, and I’d like to make an updated list, as comprehensive as possible, of relevant applications (including online ones). If you use software that includes primary directions, please contribute to this thread and let us know what it is (including which version) – and, if you yourself use the primary directions option, what you think of it.

If forum members wish, we might also compare output by calculating primary directions for the same chart using different software. Here is one suggestion for such a chart, the nativity of Victoria, Crown Princess of Sweden, which I use in my course: 14 July, 1977, 21:45 CET, Stockholm (59N20, 18E03), tropical Asc 29Aq18.
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Petr



Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 88
Location: Czech Republic

Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I used the data from Martin and compiled the horoscope of Princess Victoria, I found a small difference in the value of the ascendant. Martin, I assume you used Solar Fire. If we use Morinus, for example, we get the value of the ascendant = 29Β°19'06 ''. The deviation is small, but can mean a difference of several days in the calculation of primary directions. Janus 5.3 gives the same result as Morinus. In general, I use Morinus as a control standard to verify the accuracy of the calculation. In the following period, I will gradually go through the programs, which I verified over time in terms of calculating primary directios. I will divide them free and paid. Another division can be depending on whether it can calculate classical conversion directions. In this category, the selection is narrower. I will try to draw attention to the identified shortcomings in the individual programs.

Free programs:

Morinus - Basic page: https://sites.google.com/site/pymorinus/

next sequel: https://sites.google.com/site/pymorinus7/

The downside is that it has no print output. You can also set classic conversion directions although to a somewhat limited extent.
The issue of printing was solved by adding the module of primary directives to the program Astrolog and the Astrolog 32 v3 program was created.

Astrolog 32 v3 – Basic page: http://astrolog32v3.altervista.org/index.htm

At present, work is continuing on the development of this program.

Another free program where we can find the calculation of primary directions is:

Astro-Seek – basic page: https://www.astro-seek.com/

The primary directions module is at:

https://horoscopes.astro-seek.com/birth-time-rectification-calculator-primary-directions

It has only limited options.

The sequel will follow.
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Martin Gansten
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Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you, Petr, that is really useful. I look forward to the sequel, and I hope others will chime in as well.

Yes, the Asc I quoted was calculated by Solar Fire. From a traditional perspective on primary directions, a difference of a minute of arc (corresponding, as you say, to a few days in time) is not important, as the effects of directions were considered to last for years. But if Solar Fire consistently differs from most or all other software, that is still helpful to know.
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Petr



Joined: 25 Aug 2008
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Location: Czech Republic

Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The module has only limited capabilities. Only three static keys, Zodiacal direction without or with latitude. A conversion direction is modern. The option of selecting a rectification step is advantageous. The choice of signifiers is limited to Asc and MC. The program on another page also allows the calculation of the distribution of Asc through the Bounds.

https://horoscopes.astro-seek.com/distribution-directions-through-the-bounds-astrology-calculator

I will only mention the Planetdance program only marginally. It is an excellent program that allows many calculations, but the module for calculating primary directions is very limited. The author of the module writes:
This module is designed to complement the Hellenistic astrology modules in Planetdance. The module calculates a list of primary directions according to the method of Ptolemy. The directions are shown by promissor conjunctions and oppositions to the significators. The Ptolemaic key is used. All directions are calculated 'in zodiaco'. This means that the significator and promissors positions are taken to be the zodiacal degree (without latitude). All algorithms are adapted from Gansten's book.
I wrote to the authors of this program that it would be appropriate to extend the calculation of primary directions. Unfortunately, no result yet. It is a shame in an otherwise excellent program.

Planetdance – Basic page: https://www.jcremers.com/

For interest, we can make the first comparison of the two programs. As a basis, I will take the birth of the princess's son Oscar on 2.3.2016.

The default setting is Placidus (semiarc), Zodiacal, without latitude, Naibod key. Significators Asc , MC.

Morinus: Direct and modern conversion direction near that date.:

8.5.2016 Direct direction of the trine Mars to MC.

For classic conversion direction:

15.5.2016 Classical conversion direction of the trine Venus to MC.

Here it turns out that neglecting the classical conversion direction is a big mistake.

Data from Astro – Seek:

A small length correction from 18 Β° 04 'to 18 Β° 03' is required.

8.5.2016 Direct direction of the trine Mars to MC.

2.5.2016 Without length correction indicated! It is very important to realize that the same initial data and, of course, the same ephemeris are needed when comparing the results.

Continuation.


Last edited by Petr on Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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Petr



Joined: 25 Aug 2008
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Location: Czech Republic

Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course, the several-day differences are not significant, but I want to follow a certain procedure so that the comparison is regular.
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Tom
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Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2020 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haven't been here in a while, but:

1. Delphic Oracle version 9

2. Placidus.

Delphic Oracle calculates the directions they way I like to see them displayed, and the program uses true converse directions, i.e. the way they were originally calculated.

I've compared Delphic Oracle's hit dates to those in John Worsdale's "Celestial Philosophy" and found in some charts they are nearly identical and in others different by months. I think I've found the reason for that or a possible reason. I no longer believe that John Worsdale Sr, wrote much of that book, if any of it, although his notes were used often. That's another story entirely.

Placidus does everything, but is less user friendly. Rumen Kolev is less interested in zodiacal directions and it shows. Not the easiest program to use, but it does everything and more, e.g. an animated graphic display of the PDs. .

I will look at the PDs calculated in Janus from time to time and Morinus.

I've noticed, but have not checked in depth, the differences in hit dates between these programs. Since most authorities have a 6 month either way "orb" a small difference seems to be irrelevant.
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gene_v



Joined: 21 Jun 2013
Posts: 36
Location: USA

Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2020 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AstroApp includes Primary Directions.
11 direction methods, 6 static keys, 13 symbolic static keys, 8 dynamic keys. In Zodiaco, In Mundo, plane directions, traditional and modern converse calculations. Directions to planets, major asteroids, fixed stars. Relocated directions.
Last time I tested, the hits used to be pretty close to Morinus version ~6.

There is also a separate module for distributions.

https://astroapp.com

thanks,
Gene
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Petr



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Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2020 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another program that does a lot in traditional astrology is Zeus. Currently still in progress its development and addition of other techniques. It is possible to obtain a license for one months, which is automatically renewed. The module of primary direction has a choice according to Placidus or Regiomontanus. Various static and dynamic keys. Zodiac and mundo direction. For zodiacal directions, various options without latitude or with latitude. Can calculate zodiacal parallels. Conversion directions are modern or classical. It also allows the calculation of ascensional directions according to variant A or B.

21.5.2016 Classical conversion direction of the trine of Venus to MC.

Zeus – Basic page http://astrozeus.ru/

From the paid programs I will pay attention to:

Solar Fire v 9.0.26
Janus 5.3
Delphic Oracle 8.2.1.4 or 9.0.3.4
Placidus 7
ZET 9 Professional or Geo

I don't have Sirius 2 available.

Solar Fire.

Solar Fire in this version finally has a bug fixed in the calculation of primary directions. In addition, there has been the expansion. It now allows the calculation of zodiacal directions without latitude and mundo directions. It has a choice between modern and classic versions of conversion directions. Can not count zodiacal declination parallels. It calculates directions according to Placidus and Regiomontanus. It also offers a range of directional keys.


Last edited by Petr on Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:11 am; edited 3 times in total
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Petr



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Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For our example, Solar Fire will give us the right result, because he can do classical conversion directions.

12.5.2016 Classical conversion direction of the trine of Venus to MC.

Janus 5.3 is a good program. Allows you to set up a classic conversion direction in a similar way as in Morinus. He can also compute zodiacal parallels. It correctly counts them only for direct and modern zodiacal directions. For a classic conversion zodiacal parallels the results are incorrect. I did not find any other errors. For our example, it gives the same result as Morinus.

15.5.2016 Classical conversion direction of the trine of Venus to MC.

Delphic Oracle has a very well-equipped primary directions module that allows a variety of options. In contrast to the Morinus program, it allows the calculation of topocentric (Polich-Page)primary directions. The problem is when calculating zodiacal declination parallels, where the program sometimes fails. Modern conversion directions are called neo-converse. Result for example:

18.5..2016 Classical conversion direction of the trine of Venus to MC.

Minor deviations are given by a small change in the coordinates of Stocholm according to the Terran atlas.
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Isaac Starkman



Joined: 13 Dec 2007
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Location: Tel Aviv, Israel

Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When working with Primary Directions for high latitude places it is recommended to use the coordinates with seconds of arc. Princess Victoria was born in Karolinska Hospital. According to Wikipedia the exact coordinates are
59N 21’ 08” 18E 01’56”
The next step is to rectify the chart to +/- 4s. I used my program Polaris which is using Primary Direction in Topocentric System. With 9 major events I got 21.45.44 CET and the Ascendant is :
29Aqu48’33” Polaris
29AQU47’06” Solar Fire
29Aqu 49’ Sirius
For the birth of her son Oscar the primary directions in Topocentric are:
(c) = converse
1’ is equal about 6 days
MC 120 Mars orb 1’
Mars conjunct cusp 5th orb 3’
Using the same rectified birth time for other events:
2. Marriage 19 June 2010
Uranus (c) 0 Desc 8’
Uranus 0 MC 9’
Jupiter (c) 60 Sun 4’
3rd 120 Uranus 6’
3. Birth of sister Madeleine 10 June 1982
Mercury 180 Asc 8’
Uranus (c) 120 Asc 4’
Moon 120 Uranus 3’
4. Birth of brother Carl 13 May 1979
Mercury (c) 180 PAF 7’
5. Birth of daughter Estelle 23 Feb 2012
Moon 30 5th cusp 5’
Node (c) 30 Asc 4’
Polaris is available, free download in : https://ajak41.wixsite.com/polaris
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Martin Gansten
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Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks to all who contributed so far. I'll wait a little longer to see if there are others who want to take part in this conversation.

When you say 'it is recommended' in the passive voice, Isaac, I feel I should clarify that this is your own take on directions and not the way they were used before the 20th century. Traditionally, there was no demand for that degree of exactitude. Outer planets and directions made against the primary motion/against time were not employed, and astrologers did not believe that directions should necessarily perfect on or near the exact date of an event (or else nothing, or at least nothing of importance, could happen in a person's life on those dates when no direction perfects).

The old astrologers did, however, insist on clear astrological symbolism pertinent to the nature of the event. At the time of the Princess's wedding, for instance, the Asc was directed to the conjunction of Venus without latitude by direct motion (perfecting, as it happens, within a week of her wedding day by the rate of 1 degree per year, although such a close hit would not have been deemed necessary), with Venus having returned to its natal place (and thus to the place of the directed Asc) in her current revolution.
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Petr



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Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZET 9. This program can calculate primary directions according to Placidus. Zodiacal, mundo and under the field. Zodiacal directions counts without latitude. Classic conversion directions can't count.

Placidus 7. I used Placidus 7 to check manual calculations when implementing the Morinus program's primary directions module. More of us collaborated on the module then, Martin, Margherita, Roberto and others. It allows the calculation of many variations of primary directions. It just depends on the correct settings. It also counts classic conversion directions. I don't know any program that knows more about primary directions. All it lacks is the calculation of zodiacal parallels in the form of a table.
For our example, it gives us a result:

15.5.2016

Assessment.

I wanted to point out possible problems with the programs for calculating the primary directions. I used programs that I either have or are freely available. All programs calculate basic primary directions according to Placidus correctly. There are large differences in the facilities and capabilities of individual programmes. Morinus is still the absolute leader in free programs. Likewise, Placidus 7 in paid programs. An interesting variant in terms of traditional astrology is Delphic Oracle and Janus 5.3. Solar Fire allows only basic computing, but is enough choice. Some of the programs also allow for calculations of primary directions in solar revolutions, lunar revolutions, and to the stars. A separate chapter is distribution to terms (bounds). I didn't analyze the programs in all their options, given that a detailed description can be found on their site.
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Jean



Joined: 05 Jun 2013
Posts: 20

Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello,

I'm the author of the free planetdance. Planetdance has a few progression techniques (See Horoscope - Progression), for primary there is the Van Dam method (with consent from Wim van Dam). My co-author Ed is responsible for most classic modules though. I've alerted him to this thread.
Thanks, Jean
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Knightinte



Joined: 22 Nov 2017
Posts: 75

Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2020 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was looking for such software myself. I am glad that I found many. Thanks for posting this question. Delphic Oracle is a great tool. Trying to learn it. Let's hope it helps me .
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astralwanderer



Joined: 20 Dec 2012
Posts: 190
Location: Southwest England

Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2020 4:59 pm    Post subject: Planetdance Primary Directions Reply with quote

Hi there - the Planetdance Ptolemaic Primary Directions module is quite limited at the moment. However I will be going back to redevelop it when time permits. I have been working on a number of other modules in recent months including the Hellenistic module, Ed Greek Horoscope.

You are welcome to download Jean's freeware and try all the options available at www.jcremers.com. The software is undergoing constant development and is worth looking at as a freeware option.
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