After a lot of research I finally found the perfect sailboat but it looks like there is already some sort of verbal agreement between the seller and another buyer, although nothing is finalised yet.

I told the seller to contact me in case the other transaction fell through and I made an horary chart to see if there were any possibility that the other buyer would change his mind and I would be able to buy this boat.

But I have trouble being sure which significator I should use for the boat:
- Lilly says boats are ruled by 1st house
- But I read that 1st house is for determining safety at sea but it should be 9th house otherwise
- Then it could be also 3rd house of vehicles

I'm buying this boat to live on it, practice and ultimately sail off for a long time. So I really don't know which house is ruling it.

Here is the chart: https://imgur.com/a/ApzPiPl
And the data:
07 oct 2020, 7.11pm
Rillieux, France



So my interpretation is:

If I take 1st house as the ship, then Mars is the significator, so mine would have to be the moon. Mars is in the ascendant, with an applying sextile aspect to the moon but is retrograde (the ship coming back to me maybe?). For this it looks very promising I think, and maybe a fast resolution, especially as there is only 5 degrees to go and Mars is in a quadrant and cardinal sign. Although there is the retrograde part, which is always worrying.

If I take the 9th house, then Jupiter represents the ship and there is no aspect to the moon, but a square applying aspect with mars being retrograde. Then it wouldn't be so easy I think. So maybe no?

Finally there is the 3rd house possibility, with mercury representing the ship. There there is no aspect at all, so it would be a no.

Also I noted that the sailboat has a great dignity in the first two cases and quite ok in the 3rd, so it does look like a great boat.

I hope you can help me clarify all this!
Thanks in advance

To me the most important question is whether the financial transaction between you and the buyer can occur or not. The boat isn't as important unless you want to assess its qualities. I would assume boats lord the 3rd house, house of transportation (such as cars), but it is times like this that I wish Deb were still active in the forums and could let us know more conclusively. If you are purchasing it to live in you could also argue the 4th house. Here I think the Moon is helpful and is flagging the 3rd house (it is within 5 degrees of the 3rd and therefore in it).

Will the transaction occur between you and the buyer? Your 2nd house lord is stationing to retro in the house of the buyer and is moving towards the buyer, Venus, and it receives Venus. The Moon translates the light of Sun in the 7th house of the buyer to the ascendant lord and I think the Moon is co-lording the boat. The ascendant lord is also retro, not unlike the 2nd lord. Lilly says retro planets are contradictory and it could show you changing your mind. I am not convinced that your primary sig and your financial sig's movement is supporting a strong transaction. It suggests some uncertainty. The seller is cadent and in fall, which suggests lack of interest to work with you too. There are some pros here but I am never confident when a chart shows planets moving backwards or halting before they turn backwards. I would think a stationary 2nd lord also suggests your offer is too low, since retro financial sigs show a fall in price. Also, sextiles are weak and require reception, according to Bonatti, and Venus does not receive back. I think the condition of the seller is the biggest red flag here for me though. You should want a seller to show more interest in working with you. It could possibly suggest future desperation, I suppose, but I would be skeptical about that. The Sun is also in fall in the house of the seller.

The fact that Mars is quite strong suggests you hold some power in the outcome but retro movement usually shows a change of heart or not being certain about something to begin with.

Hello Arya,
I see your boat being ruled by the 2nd House (all movable things) as opposed to a non-movable thing like a house.
And Ruler of 2nd House and planets in seems to describe well your sailboat.
Gemini 2nd House (Transportation) - Ruler Mercury in Scorpio (water sign) but slow and Fixed, about to turn Retro. I would say you would spend more time in the port than at sea. And Mercury in the 7th, there is more than one owner of this boat

MoonL4 in 2nd House applying to North Node - As you mention, this could become your home. Fits well.

But as Tanit mentioned, I am not sure that the transaction will occur.
MarsL1 Retrograde and Ruler of MercuryL2, something will make you change your mind. Also MarsR applying by square to Jupiter (Fall) Lord of 8th and 9th, other people's money and legal matters will interfere with the transaction.
And Moon last sextile your Ruler R, you would regret it.

Best to you!
Ouranos

Thank you both for your answers, they are very thorough and it's really interesting to see how it's possible to interpret an horary by many different angles (the seller, the boat, the financial side etc).

About "I would think a stationary 2nd lord also suggests your offer is too low, since retro financial sigs show a fall in price" is not really the case because I would be ready to go higher than the asking price, as I really fell in love with this boat and it's very hard to let go of it.
But it's true that the state of the seller sig and the 7th is concerning, I think it might be because he is in a rush to sell, as he already has purchased another boat and need to get rid of this one, he dropped the price quite a bit too because of that (which makes the boat such a great bargain).

You both mention that with Mars retrograde there could be a change of heart on my side, it's very hard for me to see how it could happen but it would be preferable, as I would have no regrets.

I just would like to be contacted again by the seller, even if I end up changing my mind because of something I cannot imagine now. Do you think it's possible that he would contact me, even if it doesn't work out in the end?

I would think the best case scenario regarding retro movement is a repeat of offer due to someone else backing away but, like I said, the significators for the seller are not great enough for me to think you would get the boat. I find retro sigs difficult to interpret though, which is not surprising since Lilly calls them contradictory. I know in my own charts they are always significant and when they represent me they show I either change my mind and find something else that works better or I revisit a matter I have already visited.

arya

i have lived on a sailboat before.. i would think this is a 4th house question.. i will defer to the others who are more into horary then me, but that is my quick take... i got the boat to live on as well and sailing was an additional bonus.. i will say charts with moon in trine to sun in horary are generally positive, but again i am not a horary astrologer! good luck in it all..

James - it is true that Moon-Sun trines are often positive, although for gain you would generally rather see Moon increasing in light rather than decreasing. There are definitely some positives in the chart besides the Moon-Sun trine, but the retro/stationary sigs cannot be ignored and at least should suggest problems.

I guess I will have to see then how this retrograde thing plays out.

I wonder if you believe that it's possible to predict timing with degree giving the time unit and cardinal/dual/fixed and cadent etc predicting if it's in days/months/years? Did this kind of timing work for you in the past?

Timing is probably one of the most difficult aspect in Horary.
My little experience with it makes me believe that the approach by Modalities (Cardinal, Fixed and Mutable) combined with Houses (Angular, Fixed, Succedent) needs a refresher and a whole lot of common sense.

The Moon is usually the timer and the most dependable significator Based on your chart the Moon Mutable combined with Succedent suggest 'Months'. If we view the Moon as being close enough to be in the 3rd House, the time unit suggests 'Time Unknown". This one is called Symbolic Time
Other ways for datation:
- When the aspect becomes exact in the Ephemeris
- When a planet changes direction (Retro or Direct)
- When a planet (significator) changes Sign. Largely used in Vedic Astrology.
- Another Vedic way is the division of the 360 degrees of the zodiac into 248 units with each unit having a Star Lord and a Sub Lord (Planets) and the Sub Lord is the one deciding factor.

The approach I prefer is the one given by Ema Kurent who seems to have a good record with it.
https://www.emakurent.com/en/2017/02/09 ... astrology/

And it can be summarized like this:
1) Every degree corresponds to one unit of time. Units can be minutes, days, weeks, months or years. To arrive by the number of time unites elapsing until the predicted event, you count the number of degrees that are separating the Moon from an exact aspect with the significator (provided the aspect is an applying one, of course),
2) or the number of degrees that separate the Moon or the significator from one of the angles,
3) or the number of degrees that separate the Moon or the significator from the end of the sign they are in.

For your chart I will use the Moon(co-significator) and VenusL7.
I) Moon's next exact aspect (conjunction) to Venus in 77 units
2) Moon to the next angle (4th House) is 20 units
3) Moon to the end of Gemini is 11 units and a half.
Based on the Time units found here, I quickly dismiss years and months and you will notice that these were the ones given by the traditional method As well, minutes and hours don't make sense with your question.
We are left with days or weeks. Of the 2, I will use Days.
Final decision: And don't take this as an expert opinion, I am just trying to make sense here and it is a work in progress.
*** Moon leaving Gemini in 11 units = Oct 18th
*** Moon to the next Angle = 20 units = Oct 27th (This one should bring some development if not a direction)
*** Moon conjunct Venus = 77 units = Dec 23rd

Please let us know how it develops,
Kind regards,
Ouranos

Well, I will be short. We can see antiscia between Mars and Venus (buyer - seller) and there the Moon translates the light from Sun in detriment to Mars.
Sun could be another buyer who is not strong enough and you will have a chance to buy the boat. Timing - one week because there is one degree to get to exact antiscia.