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US Presidential Election 2020
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 1104

Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know this isn't the horary forum, but since the topic is up, I did a horary on who will be elected back in May. Horary can be more to-the-point than other methods.



I give the 1st house to the current president and the 7th to the opponent. The 10th house and its lord is the presidency. The current president is fixed in the 10th in Taurus, and the ascendant in Leo is also the sign on Trump's natal ascendant. All of the angles are fixed, suggesting lack of change in horary. The 10th lord Venus appears to apply via trine to Mars in the 7th house of the opponent, but Mars moves into another sign and Venus turns retro before it can be perfected (denial of perfection). She is stationing in this chart, similar to what zoidsoft was saying about Mercury (and here she is disposited by Mercury strong in the 10th). This could suggest that initially it appears the opponent will win but in the end that will be denied. The Moon is cadent in a sign of the 7th lord and applies to nothing, which to me suggests the status quo will continue. The 7th lord is retro Saturn, cadent, an accidentally weak placement and may be showing Bernie Sanders having left the running due to illness, although he may have been a stronger candidate than Mars. Mars in the 7th takes over the matter and is squared by Sun but Mars is at a critical degree and has only term dignity, which is like someone about to be homeless. Sun has no essential dignity (peregrine) and is conjunct Algol, but is in the house of the presidency. The aspect between Mars and Sun though shows Mars dominating the aspect and suggests Sun will have a very difficult time, but the aspect also does not perfect due to Mars leaving signs (frustration). Again, this points to some sort of almost win for Mars. For Sun, as Deb would say, an essentially bad planet can have "luck" when placed in a good house, but doesn't deserve it. The square suggests the election will likely get pretty ugly but I find it unlikely the current president is going anywhere. He may also use dishonest methods to win, since he is conjunct Algol and is also aspecting Neptune in the 8th. I do think the horary supports that he does not deserve the role but the opponent does not seem that much better either.

I could be misinterpreting the chart but that was my take.
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Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tanit wrote:
Quote:
The square suggests the election will likely get pretty ugly but I find it unlikely the current president is going anywhere. He may also use dishonest methods to win, since he is conjunct Algol and is also aspecting Neptune in the 8th. I do think the horary supports that he does not deserve the role but the opponent does not seem that much better either.

Tanit, thanks for your excellent horary analysis! Your conclusion is pretty much the way it looks to me as I'm in the process of finishing up a post for Skyscript on Rahu (Moon's north node) and the election. I began with a general analysis of the inaugural date, but Rahu kept insisting on being front and center. Many circumstances that some expect to surface in this election can be related to Rahu, among them illusion, manipulation and shadowy activity--working outside the law or behind the scenes. Some of Neptune's associations manifest in India's Rahu.
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SteveS



Joined: 04 Jun 2019
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Location: Springville, Al

Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

James wrote:
Quote:
i think the transit of the nodal axis is what matters here...

Yes, I agree it is a very important factor for election night Nov 3.
James wrote:
Quote:
i say this knowing the north node is considered exalted in tropical gemini, or sidereal taurus... the indian astrology book i reference above has a lot more to say on this concept of nodes being exalted then i have covered here..

Interesting, I did know this.
James wrote:
Quote:
however, i still content that moon and north node in the same sign as trumps sun favours trump here..

Makes good astrological sense to me, can’t be a coincidence this is happening on election night. The Hamburg School considered t Moon timing events to the hour and we see t. Moon on election night partile conjunct his Natal Full Moon about the exact time when election results are known.
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Taurus7



Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Posts: 596

Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I know this isn't the horary forum, but since the topic is up, I did a horary on who will be elected back in May. Horary can be more to-the-point than other methods.
- Tanit

I don't believe a horary is valid in this case. You have to be personally involved for a horary to give you a valid answer.

If Trump or Biden, or one of their friends or relatives, etc. did this horary, it would be valid. But if you or me or anyone of us who are not personally involved in the question ask this, it is not valid.

My 2 cents...
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Michael Sternbach
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Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Taurus7 wrote:
Quote:
I know this isn't the horary forum, but since the topic is up, I did a horary on who will be elected back in May. Horary can be more to-the-point than other methods.
- Tanit

I don't believe a horary is valid in this case. You have to be personally involved for a horary to give you a valid answer.

If Trump or Biden, or one of their friends or relatives, etc. did this horary, it would be valid. But if you or me or anyone of us who are not personally involved in the question ask this, it is not valid.

My 2 cents...


Even though I am no expert for horaries, I would think that the question of who is going to be the next US president affects the life of all of us to one degree or another.

Moreover, I am not sure if the use of horary is actually limited to question of personal relevance anyway. It would be interesting to hear other practitioners' opinion on this, though.
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amelia



Joined: 17 Jun 2004
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Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Taurus 7 wrote
Quote:
I don't believe a horary is valid in this case. You have to be personally involved for a horary to give you a valid answer.


This is a commonly held opinion. But I disagree, the important thing is not that the horary is personal but that it is not asked in a trivial way-i.e the questioner is genuinely interested in the outcome and approaches it it a professional manner. All of which would apply in Tanit's case

One of the reasons for the view that you can't ask mundane questions like this is that you could end up with everyone asking the same one at different times. And as we know you can't be asking the same question again in horary unless the circumstances change dramatically. So my view is that once a horary has been asked and published like this one, no one else who has seen it should be able to ask again. They may offer their own interpretations of the existing chart but not produce a new one.

So I think the horary is valid.

However as it is a horary I would have expected the ASc to represent the Querent (Tanit) not the President. Tanit - can you explain your thinking on that?
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Taurus7



Joined: 23 Oct 2003
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Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amelia:
Quote:
So my view is that once a horary has been asked and published like this one, no one else who has seen it should be able to ask again. They may offer their own interpretations of the existing chart but not produce a new one.


So what you're saying is that because I and other people who have read this horary, we can't ask this question again.

Quote:
the important thing is not that the horary is personal but that it is not asked in a trivial way-i.e the questioner is genuinely interested in the outcome and approaches it it a professional manner.


OK, so there are 300 million people in America who have conceivably asked this same question in all earnestness: who will win the election? And there are millions of people all over the world possibly asking the same question, but they haven't read this thread, so it's OK for them to ask this question.

So we conceivably could have millions of horaries asking the same question in different places around America and the rest of the world, at different times in different locations.... So we could have 300 million+ horaries, all conceivably pointing to the same answer.

That's not how it works...
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zoidsoft



Joined: 10 Feb 2006
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Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Taurus7 wrote:
So we conceivably could have millions of horaries asking the same question in different places around America and the rest of the world, at different times in different locations.... So we could have 300 million+ horaries, all conceivably pointing to the same answer.

That's not how it works...


Thanks for pointing out the absurd. Statistically, there could be 150 million correct horaries and the other half wrong. The ones that get the correct answer most likely just lucky.

Personally, I don't believe astrology is an efficient cause. I think it works because life follows heavy correlative set theoretic conditions (life is not nearly as random as it appears to the average person). Astrologers are in the business of mapping set theoretic probabilities based on a cosmological model of nature.
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
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Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We shouldn't make this thread run away with side issues about what does or does not make a horary radical and which houses to use, etc. Mark had mentioned in another thread that he would be interested in a horary approach, so I shared mine that I had asked earnestly several months back.
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Petros



Joined: 09 Sep 2020
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Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is the link to my prediction for the upcoming elections. I trust it will be included in the other topic:

https://www.facebook.com/notes/qhp-hellas/usa-2020-presidential-election-who-will-it-be/3201341696588282/

It's either Trump or no man manages to get 270 electoral votes on the 3rd of November. If Biden's birth time is accurate, I just don't see him winning.
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Mark
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Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tanit wrote:
Quote:
We shouldn't make this thread run away with side issues about what does or does not make a horary radical and which houses to use, etc. Mark had mentioned in another thread that he would be interested in a horary approach, so I shared mine that I had asked earnestly several months back.


Thanks for for your horary analysis Tanit,

I quite agree your prediction shouldn't be the kick off for a wider debate on the legitimacy of horary for mundane astrology here. I intend to open a thread on that after the US election is over. I think its an interesting question. In my 2016 election list I excluded horary for some of the reasons given above. But notwithstanding these objections I am fully aware of I decided to include delineation by accomplished horary astrologers in my 2020 list. However, I am excluding predictions by random horary students on forums. To keep this simple I only included charts cast by astrologers based in the USA asking about their POTUS. I wanted to see if any pattern evolved or if the charts all contradicted each other. I do find it interesting that all four horary delineations I have seen by US based experienced horary practitioners concur Trump is likely to win. Clearly, not enough for a statistically, significant result but intriguing nonetheless. It will be interesting to revisit this after November 3rd.

Tanit, would you like your analysis added to the list of predictions?

Mark
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Mark
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Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amelia wrote:
Quote:
And as we know you can't be asking the same question again in horary unless the circumstances change dramatically. So my view is that once a horary has been asked and published like this one, no one else who has seen it should be able to ask again. They may offer their own interpretations of the existing chart but not produce a new one.

So I think the horary is valid.


I do have two horary charts in my list from traditional astrologers based in Los Angeles who asked their questions before Tanit.

https://traditionalmedicalastrology.org/2020-presidential-election-prediction/

Its a tricky one where people are posting horary charts on this all over the planet. Who going to police this and tell an astrologer their chart is invalid? An alternative would be to see what the majority of horary charts indicate. There is one American astrologer I know that has a 'horary team' that repeatedly asks questions throughout election year to monitor the situation in the primaries and swing states. He claims an exceptionally high prediction rate accuracy using this approach.

Quote:
However as it is a horary I would have expected the ASc to represent the Querent (Tanit) not the President. Tanit - can you explain your thinking on that?


Yes I agree. Unless Tanit is a supporting Trump and rooting for him to win??? My take is that POTUS should be lord 10 (her President/ruler). That changes the delineation somewhat. However, I think the POV Tanit has adopted is that since Trump and Biden are competing for the future office of President the prize which is Lord 10 belongs to neither of the candidates yet. This is an interesting approach but the querent seems to completely disappear in this method which seems more like a mundane than a horary approach.

Mark
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
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Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Mark - regarding my method, I viewed the chart like a battle chart primarily, since this is a competition. I am by no means an expert and I wouldn't be surprised to be wrong. I am not a fan of either party but I would prefer to not have Trump as president anymore. For me it is a question of which is the lesser of two evils. At least here Biden as Mars would be moving into Pisces, a dignified area for Mars, and could suggest that me might be a better leader if he was elected.

If we gave Venus as the president and Biden as the 7th lord then Venus is weaker than Mars but the 10th holds a fixed luminary and also a very strong Mercury (the strongest planet in the chart). That would still favor the current president. It is interesting how strong Mercury is - I didn't realize in May when I asked this but I do think it is highlighting the importance of how ballots will be handled during a mail delivery problem and a pandemic where people may not be able to vote in person, in which case Trump may have an upper hand? The only thing that I think supports me possibly being wrong is that the 10th rules the reputation of the astrologer and Sun with Algol could suggest I damage my reputation - not that I really care about reputations much since I am not an astrologer by profession and have nothing to lose either way. As someone with a strong Mars in Aries I enjoy challenges and of course being right though!

Quote:
I do find it interesting that all four horary delineations I have seen by US based experienced horary practitioners concur Trump is likely to win. Clearly, not enough for a statistically, significant result but intriguing nonetheless. It will be interesting to revisit this after November 3rd.


This is interesting considering in the US we usually have a pretty reliable method of predicting when a president will not be re-elected: the state of the economy. Most people I talk to in California do not think he will be re-elected and I will admit that when I asked this question I was influenced by the statistics of presidents not being re-elected during a bad economy. I was surprised that the chart suggested the opposite.
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moonbright



Joined: 21 Jul 2015
Posts: 172
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Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello:

I have been working on some charts but am not ready to predict yet. However, the charts that I have seen look chaotic and I have been wondering what that might indicate. And then this happened!

It appears the BBC has not yet picked this up so I'm sharing it here (hope that's OK):

https://secondnexus.com/donald-trump-loyal-electors-atlantic


Shocked
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Michael Sternbach
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Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moderator notice

Please note that Skyscript does not offer itself as a platform for making zealous political statements.

Therefore keep the discussion factual and linked to astrology.

One post has been deleted.

Thank you for abiding by the few rules we have.

Michael
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