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US Presidential Election 2020
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amymaddalozzo



Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 145

Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:07 pm    Post subject: Election Reply with quote

part of fortune What about neptune being conjunct the 4th house cusp? Is that a factor? amy
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Yuriy



Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 503

Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zoidsoft wrote:


The most common thing said about Algol is decapitation or "losing ones head". Do we just pick and choose what we want to see that supports our version of "astrology" now?


Somehow all conservative and simply normal Americans going for Trump.
Algol also associated with criminal mobs and socialist's revolution's methods to let criminals out to the streets to intimidate society.
Doesn't "defund police" slogan associates with "losing ones head"?
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 1104

Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Somehow all conservative and simply normal Americans going for Trump.
Algol also associated with criminal mobs and socialist's revolution's methods to let criminals out to the streets to intimidate society.
Doesn't "defund police" slogan associates with "losing ones head"?


I am not sure what you mean by "going for Trump." Do you mean the astrologers' predictions or the American voters? The polls now favor Biden but we will see. I have a feeling that it may appear one way initially and after mail in ballots are received there will be a different outcome. I wouldn't be surprised if Trump appears to win initially or vice versa and I think that is going to cause a lot of discord and possibly violence when the final outcome is different than what voters think is going to happen on Nov 3. We are dealing with not only Mercury rx disposited by Mars, but Mars rx in Aries right now and Mercury turns direct soon after Nov 3 and goes back into Scorpio. As I said in my horary reading, it seems like Biden will seem a winner at first and will lose but I could be reading that backwards. So far it does fit though since everyone thinks he is winning the debates and the polls favor him.

A lot of the acts that Trump has been accused of fit well for Algol on the MC, which is what several of us have been talking about.
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Yuriy



Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 503

Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tanit3333 wrote:
Quote:
Somehow all conservative and simply normal Americans going for Trump.
Algol also associated with criminal mobs and socialist's revolution's methods to let criminals out to the streets to intimidate society.
Doesn't "defund police" slogan associates with "losing ones head"?


I am not sure what you mean by "going for Trump." Do you mean the astrologers' predictions or the American voters? The polls now favor Biden but we will see. I have a feeling that it may appear one way initially and after mail in ballots are received there will be a different outcome. I wouldn't be surprised if Trump appears to win initially or vice versa and I think that is going to cause a lot of discord and possibly violence when the final outcome is different than what voters think is going to happen on Nov 3. We are dealing with not only Mercury rx disposited by Mars, but Mars rx in Aries right now and Mercury turns direct soon after Nov 3 and goes back into Scorpio. As I said in my horary reading, it seems like Biden will seem a winner at first and will lose but I could be reading that backwards. So far it does fit though since everyone thinks he is winning the debates and the polls favor him.

A lot of the acts that Trump has been accused of fit well for Algol on the MC, which is what several of us have been talking about.


You probably know that Trump is typical NY liberal and former democrat, and had funded a lot of money to Clinton's campaign, etc.
Ne became republican to protect USA future, being witness of how democrats corrupted this country for decades.
He isn't typical tough republican like senior Bush, his behavior still being very liberal and corrupter media take advantage of that.
His slight eccentric behavior they bluntly associate with madness, and keep lying. lying, lying...
So, yes, he wants to "drain the swamp", US government and local democratic authorities at present corrupted condition - the MC on Algol quite represent that swamp.
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zoidsoft



Joined: 10 Feb 2006
Posts: 1012
Location: Pulaski, NY

Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yuriy wrote:
zoidsoft wrote:


The most common thing said about Algol is decapitation or "losing ones head". Do we just pick and choose what we want to see that supports our version of "astrology" now?


Somehow all conservative and simply normal Americans going for Trump.
Algol also associated with criminal mobs and socialist's revolution's methods to let criminals out to the streets to intimidate society.
Doesn't "defund police" slogan associates with "losing ones head"?


Yes. I refer you to my previous statement:

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?p=115553&highlight=#115553
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Yuriy



Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 503

Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zoidsoft wrote:
Yuriy wrote:
zoidsoft wrote:


The most common thing said about Algol is decapitation or "losing ones head". Do we just pick and choose what we want to see that supports our version of "astrology" now?


Somehow all conservative and simply normal Americans going for Trump.
Algol also associated with criminal mobs and socialist's revolution's methods to let criminals out to the streets to intimidate society.
Doesn't "defund police" slogan associates with "losing ones head"?


Yes. I refer you to my previous statement:

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?p=115553&highlight=#115553


Thank you , I'm surprised that with Cuomo and de Blasio there people don't have illusions.
I think in many cases the sign Biden-Harris just for protection, never in US history people was so scary to express openly their political preferences.
I hope the retro Mercury now means literally moving backward to re-elect...
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Part of Fortune



Joined: 29 May 2017
Posts: 383

Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:58 am    Post subject: Re: US Presidential Election 2020 Reply with quote

Hi Kali and Amy,


Thanks for your replies. I am open to various methods. I’m interested in learning and I’m reevaluating my two posts (and charts).


kali wrote:
Hi Part of Fortune:

Because the question is if Trump will win then the 10th house ruler represents Trump. Mercury is in on the cusp of 12th house, representing the end of the matter. Fourth house ruler Jupiter would represent Biden. IMO.

Another thought, could the fact Mercury goes retrograde before Jupiter reaches MH show Trump returning to office?


Kali, you are referring to my second post (and chart) which is “X asks is Trump going to win?” In my first post I asked, “Will Trump be re-elected?” I used Trump (MC) vs. Biden (H4) as the means to obtain the result (see under “2nd method” in the first post). I also used another method there, which is Trump (H7) vs. Biden (H1) (see 1st method in the first post).

The reason I didn’t use MC vs. H4 in my second post (the one you are referring to) is because the querent is “a partisan voter”.

I am a nonpartisan voter, therefore in the first post I used MC (Trump) vs H4 (Biden) -- I’m in the same category as those who say “I don’t care who is elected!” and “Oh, yes . . . Trump, he’s the current president ~ Yawn! ~ ” (here, I’m just exaggerating the situation to give examples).

As for “X asks is Trump going to win?”: the fact is that the querent, X, is a partisan voter and never says “I don’t care who is elected” because X clearly doesn’t want Biden/Harris to be elected. The querent is quite aware that Trump currently belongs to MC (the most elevated place in the chart). But this doesn’t bring comfort to X because polls show he is not so elevated.

To me, this is a competition for the future POTUS. Therefore, both candidates should be on neutral ground and it’s up to the querent (X in this case) to see whom h/she favors and place the candidates accordingly**.

……………………………………………
**(I had mentioned the method is similar to sports astrology, but I realized in sports, 1st house belongs to betting (or critic’s) favorite which is different than a personal favorite).
……………………………………………

Kali, I’m now using your method of Trump MC/10th (Mercury) and Biden 4th(Jupiter) for my second chart, “X asks is Trump going to win?” Let’s see what I will learn from this:

Trump’s Mercury retrograde (repeat) grabs my attention. Retro Mercury (Trump) conjunct radix 12th house means that he is moving away from Walter Reed Hospital. Mercury retro could be Trump’s recovery and going back to his office (not necessarily meaning he will be going back to the office in 2021). I think Trump going back to the office in 2021 is indicated by the Moon Void of Course which means nothing changes, things stay as they are, the status quo is maintained.


amymaddalozzo wrote:
part of fortune What about neptune being conjunct the 4th house cusp? Is that a factor? amy



Amy, I’m using IC (H4) as Biden’s ascendant. Though I try to rely on seven planets when I’m reading horary (I’m not a traditionalist), occasionally I include Transsaturnians. Here, Neptune is at an angle hard to ignore (thanks for bring it up!).

To be straightforward, Biden’s bid for presidency doesn’t look good in this chart. Poor information and illusion come to mind as issues. For instance, are the polls as reliable as we are likely to believe? Neptune is not just opposing MC, but also opposing Venus who rules 11th house of hopes and wishes. Also, there’s Chiron placed in H4 (Biden) opposing PoF in 10th house of the presidency (PoF is ruled by Venus).

Aside from hopes and wishes, 11th house also represents “parliament.” Since Venus is a female sign it could be representing Pelosi in this situation. If so, it’s interesting, because Venus disposes to Mercury (that is, Venus (Pelosi) is at the mercy of Trump). Anyway, whoever Venus is, she is approaching MC and Neptune (illusion). I wonder what will happen . . . Amy, what are your thoughts about Neptune?

Thanks, PoF
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kali



Joined: 31 Dec 2006
Posts: 257

Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:20 pm    Post subject: Re: US Presidential Election 2020 Reply with quote

Part of Fortune wrote:


The reason I didn’t use MC vs. H4 in my second post (the one you are referring to) is because the querent is “a partisan voter”.

I am a nonpartisan voter, therefore in the first post I used MC (Trump) vs H4 (Biden) -- I’m in the same category as those who say “I don’t care who is elected!” and “Oh, yes . . . Trump, he’s the current president ~ Yawn! ~ ” (here, I’m just exaggerating the situation to give examples).

As for “X asks is Trump going to win?”: the fact is that the querent, X, is a partisan voter and never says “I don’t care who is elected” because X clearly doesn’t want Biden/Harris to be elected. The querent is quite aware that Trump currently belongs to MC (the most elevated place in the chart). But this doesn’t bring comfort to X because polls show he is not so elevated.

To me, this is a competition for the future POTUS. Therefore, both candidates should be on neutral ground and it’s up to the querent (X in this case) to see whom h/she favors and place the candidates accordingly**.

Yes, I understand your methodology and agree to the chart being read as such. Another interesting aspect to consider is Mercury coming to Jupiter through antiscia. Mercury in Scorpio is a straight ascending sign, Capricorn is oblique ascending sign. Commanding and obeying signs? I'm rather a novice at this technique but thought I'd put it out there. Polls can easily be manipulated. Hard to ignore the huge crowds coming out to support Trump. Not so much Biden.

Part of Fortune wrote:


Kali, I’m now using your method of Trump MC/10th (Mercury) and Biden 4th(Jupiter) for my second chart, “X asks is Trump going to win?” Let’s see what I will learn from this:

Trump’s Mercury retrograde (repeat) grabs my attention. Retro Mercury (Trump) conjunct radix 12th house means that he is moving away from Walter Reed Hospital. Mercury retro could be Trump’s recovery and going back to his office (not necessarily meaning he will be going back to the office in 2021). I think Trump going back to the office in 2021 is indicated by the Moon Void of Course which means nothing changes, things stay as they are, the status quo is maintained.


Excellent interpretation of Mercury in 12th, I forgotten about that. Given the Moon is in a fixed sign and mutable signs on cusps, going with the flow, you are probably right, this chart shows things stay as they are.

Interesting chart.

Edit; If there is a clear representation of the significators, do you let that be the guide which houses to use? To me the first job of reading a chart is to determine if the rulers describe the situation or person. In Anthony Lewis' book on horary he shows how both 1st/7th and 10th/4th house describe the person winning the election. Now that's a radical chart. Smile


Last edited by kali on Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:12 pm; edited 2 times in total
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amymaddalozzo



Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 145

Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:14 pm    Post subject: neptune on the angle Reply with quote

I personally think it is not good-even though neptune is sextile jupiter. SOmething is under the surface about the election that we don't know about amy
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Tham



Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 32
Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia

Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On Biden's age -

" Democrats had two dozen candidates, most of whom were in their 40s, 50s and 60s -- prime ages for a president. Yet they chose one significantly older than the Republican Trump. "

https://www.dothaneagle.com/opinion/columnists/biden-vp-search-underscores-fact-he-s-too-old-to-be-president/article_b2efcb1e-d33b-11ea-9a1c-bbbba847dc3b.html


2020 is the next cycle for Tecumseh's curse.

The chances of it coming true are very high this time.

Trump, who is likely to win, is at risk for assassination, largely due to Algol at his MC.

And even if Biden wins, an Indian astrologer says he won't make it past the second year due to illness or old age.
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Part of Fortune



Joined: 29 May 2017
Posts: 383

Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:21 pm    Post subject: Re: US Presidential Election 2020 Reply with quote

kali wrote:


Edit; If there is a clear representation of the significators, do you let that be the guide which houses to use? To me the first job of reading a chart is to determine if the rulers describe the situation or person. In Anthony Lewis' book on horary he shows how both 1st/7th and 10th/5th house describe the person winning the election. Now that's a radical chart. Smile


Hi Kali,

About my 1st chart: this method of matching significator personality in a political election chart is something I learned from our horary moderator, Tanit.

In this case, the match I use (Trump = 7th/the Sun vs. Biden =1st/Saturn) seems to fit the specific persons much better than making Trump Saturn (in domicile).

I remember Anthony Louis in his horary book uses H7 for incumbent Ed Koch and H1 for opponent David Dinkins for the Mayoral race in New York City (Horary Astrology Plain & Simple, pp. 52-54). He says he follows the method of Joan McEvers. I have her horary book and she gives an interesting approach to modern astrology. I’ve tested her method of using H7 (instead of H1) and found two election charts where I think her method works.

Later in the same section, Tony Louis also mentions MC (person in power) vs. H4 (opponent). Kali, I don’t see 10th/5th mentioned in this book, but does Tony Louis have another horary book with that in it?
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kali



Joined: 31 Dec 2006
Posts: 257

Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:11 pm    Post subject: Re: US Presidential Election 2020 Reply with quote

[quote="Part of Fortune"]
kali wrote:


I remember Anthony Louis in his horary book uses H7 for incumbent Ed Koch and H1 for opponent David Dinkins for the Mayoral race in New York City (Horary Astrology Plain & Simple, pp. 52-54).
Later in the same section, Tony Louis also mentions MC (person in power) vs. H4 (opponent).


Yes! He goes on to say "he became more interested in traditional methods and would now read this chart in more classical manner." He went on to show the 10th and 4th house rulers also showed the outcome of the race. I found that utterly fascinating!

Part of Fortune wrote:

Kali, I don’t see 10th/5th mentioned in this book, but does Tony Louis have another horary book with that in it?


It was a typo. I meant 4th.

Cheers,
Kali
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Part of Fortune



Joined: 29 May 2017
Posts: 383

Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:30 pm    Post subject: Re: US Presidential Election 2020 Reply with quote

Part of Fortune wrote:


Aside from hopes and wishes, 11th house also represents “parliament.” Since Venus is a female sign it could be representing Pelosi in this situation. If so, it’s interesting, because Venus disposes to Mercury (that is, Venus (Pelosi) is at the mercy of Trump). Anyway, whoever Venus is, she is approaching MC and Neptune (illusion). I wonder what will happen . . . Amy, what are your thoughts about Neptune?

Thanks, PoF


This morning, Neptune at the cusp of Biden's ascendant came to mind (see my 2nd chart).

amymaddalozzo wrote:
I personally think it is not good-even though neptune is sextile jupiter. SOmething is under the surface about the election that we don't know about amy


If Venus is Pelosi then her approaching to Neptune by opposition might be indicating their (Biden and Pelosi's) separation from each other, if Trump wins. This to me fits the scenario in which Venus disposes to Mercury (that is, Venus (Pelosi) is at the mercy of Trump).

Mercury (Trump) will be soon moving away from Venus and Neptune due to going stationary and retrograde. Therefore Venus will be perfecting opposition to Neptune. The Moon (electorate) will first apply to Mercury by sextile and to Venus by conjunction before reaching to Neptune with opposition.
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moonbright



Joined: 21 Jul 2015
Posts: 172
Location: Canada

Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:20 pm    Post subject: U.S. Presidential Election Reply with quote

Hello:

I’ve finally gotten round to some chart-bashing and my prediction is

Kamala Harris for the win!

Other astrologers have said this and my charts showed it too: she definitely has the most promise out of the three sets of charts I considered. (I didn’t look at Mr. Pence’s) The charts used were progressions, returns and polls open/closed.

Mr. Trump is still quite high-flying: there’s a lot of attention paid to him, he is in the spotlight (above the earth), but there is a recurring theme of the destabilization of his career (Uranus figures prominently) with the 10th house not showing the promise that would be expected of someone being elected President. As well, there is a drying up of resources, an affliction of the 2nd house, so money and supporters are not as abundant as they once were.

Mr. Biden’s charts show more promise with regard to the Presidency and more luck in that sense (Venus, Jupiter) but other than that they look quite dismal for him personally. The White House almost appears to be a “bad neighbourhood” for him (afflictions of the 4th). As others have stated I wonder if he might become incapacitated at some point, which is sad as his family has already undergone significant tragedy.

It does pave the way for Ms. Harris, however. Despite a certain amount of chaos also present in her charts, she looks like she’s in the right place at the right time and has the capacity to overcome any afflictions (emphasis on angular and succedent houses).

So there's my first attempt at a solid prediction. I expect a lot to be wrong as I am accurately described as a "mundane tourist". Looking forward to learning lots.

Thanks to Mark for setting this up and providing very clear explanations of the US electoral process. It's a tremendous amount of work - much appreciated.

Cheers.
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Yuriy



Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 503

Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tham wrote:


Trump, who is likely to win, is at risk for assassination, largely due to Algol at his MC.

And even if Biden wins, an Indian astrologer says he won't make it past the second year due to illness or old age.


Hi Tham
Please explain using astrological methods how Algol on MC can indicate assassination.
With Biden it's all obvious, how we could even trust this individual to operate "nuclear button" if elected.
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