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US Presidential Election 2020
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3740
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

james predicts a trump win..

i can't see biden winning off this data i share below.. i would say it is less convincing then trumps data... biden could still win, but my assessment is, based off my astro value system biden doesn't have enough here... i don't believe pence of harris factor in heavily... if we knew the birth time of pence, we could get more.. it is possible studying harris's chart we could also get a better read.. my quick read on her chart is things look good up until some time in sept-oct where it starts to fall apart...


trump... krishamurthi ayanamsa.. 10:54 am birth time.

profections and 2020 solar return.
2020 annual profection is libra ruled by venus...
2020 solar return has venus in taurus unobstructed...it is retrograde though. it lands in the 8th house of the profected ascendant..
the whole solar return chart viewed from the profected libra ascendant is a mixed bag - probably more negative then positive... the 2020 solar return on the other hand is primarily positive as i read it.. from the profected ascendant, sr cancer ascendant lands in the 10th, but sr saturn-jupiter land in the 4th.. sr ascendant ruler lands in the 6th... sr venus is positive in taurus, but not as much in the profected 8th house.. of note - the solar return has a midheaven uranus conjunction.. this shows up as a conjunction in the solar arc directions for this same time frame.. something surprising or unusual seems to be suggested by all this... does trump step down? does some other unforeseen event happen to alter the more predictable happenings around the november election?? it is a curious set up seen in a few different predictive tools that i use..

2020 solar arcs. 1 degree orb max.
sa uranus conjunct natal ascendant..
sr mars trine natal mercury..
there are others - sr midheaven 45-135 nodal axis.. sr saturn conjunct neptune, sr ascendant square pluto ( a bit more then a degree past ) sr mars 135 sun and etc... my understanding is to look at the natal chart relationships between anything that touches in the solar arc directions to the natal chart to understand how the energy will come out.. as an example. saturn is 72 degrees to neptune in the natal chart - a quintile... this would come out more positive then negative.. the most important solar arc direction as i read it is sa uranus conjunct natal ascendant.. converse directions is shows up as sa ascendant conjunct uranus... the sr mars 135 sun does not show up in the converse solar arc directions, so i downplay it more...

nov 3rd transits to natal chart.
transit moon and north node in the 10th sign.. i see this as a positive for trump..
transit mercury and saturn in square - making direct aspects to natal venus-saturn conjunction.. the transit saturn opp to natal venus is more challenging, then the conjunction, but seeing as trump has the conjunction he is no stranger to the meeting up of these 2 planets.. he is on his 3rd marriage? perhaps all is not well in this area of his life.. the transit of the square of mercury to saturn, with mercury in the commanding position and stationary is interesting here as it would reflect a more conservative inclination on election day in the voting public.. perhaps people will not show up to vote for fear of covid? maybe the concern of advance voting via mail in will be on many people's minds? all sorts of possibilities... i see it as a mixed bag for trump..
transit sun square natal pluto.. i see this as a negative.. natal relationship between the 2 is mute..
transit mars 135 ascendant and opposite natal chiron at 21 virgo.. i think the mars 135 to ascendant is a minor aspect.. i don't put much emphasis on it. one could put as much emphasis on a 150 aspect from transit mercury to midheaven, or 150 aspect of transit jupiter-pluto conjunction to natal sun-rahu... it is too many secondary considerations as i see it.. overall depending on how one views the transiting mercury-saturn square on election day to his natal venus-saturn conjunct, or to the transiting moon and nodal axis to his sun-moon opposition is where i think the gravitas lies...

fwiw the saturn opposite venus shows up in the tertiary progressions to trumps chart on the ascendant axis, so it adds to the importance of this combo by transit.


biden krishnamurthi ayanamsa and a modified 820am birth time... the angles move about 2 degrees every 5 minutes at bidens approx birth time.

annual profection and 2019 solar return data overlapping natal chart.

ap is aries ascendant which is 6th house to his natal chart.. libra mars in 12th natal house is the ruler... mars in the solar return is also in libra, so 7th house from profected ascendant.. all this is mostly a negative as i read it. the solar return chart has leo-moon conjunction rising and conjunct the natal midheaven... it is in the 5th house of the ap chart which is all a positive.. solar return mars at 7 libra is exactly opposite natal 6th house mars at 7 aries.. in the natal diurnal chart this is not considered favourable although the sr chart is nocturnal.. the cluster of sag planets, including ketu in the solar return chart land in the 9th house of the ap chart which is mostly a positive. i haven't worked with annual profections enough to have a firm grasp of them, but if i push the data to nov 3rd, the ap ascendant changes to taurus with venus as ruler... the solar return leo moon-midheaven conjunction oppose the 22 aquarius midheaven.. the cluster in sag land in the 8th house of the nov 3rd ap chart.. perhaps most significant or not is the position of neptune at 21 aquarius in the solar return chart and by transit for nov 3rd at 24 aquarius - conjunct the nov 3rd ap midheaven and opposite the natal midheaven... i see neptune as a negative in all of this.. perhaps tying his boat to kamala harris speaks into this?

solar arc data solar arc to natal - all within 1 degree orb

sa ascendant 90 mercury
sa mars 60 ascendant..
sa mars 90 moon.
sa mars 135 midheaven
sa saturn conjunct rahu-north node
sa sun-venus 135 neptune

the most important consideration are the movement of the angles.. all the data here is nothing presidential as i see it... maybe it is somewhere else?

transit data for nov 3rd transit to natal.. all within 1 degree orb
jupiter-pluto conjunction is 60 mercury
mercury-saturn square is square and opposite jupiter
mercury-saturn square is 135 to saturn ( biden has jupiter 45 saturn natal config)
neptune opp midheaven

transit data is not positive as i read it..

other data

tertiary prog ( tp) saturn-midheaven conjunct at 0 cancer - 830am time would put the midheaven degree conjunct natal jupiter
tp uranus 90 midheaven
tp neptune 45 mercury
tp mercury 60 ascendant

minor progressions

mp midheaven 45/135 rahu-ketu
mp saturn conjunct rahu- north node - same as solar arc config
mp uranus sextile rahu
mp moon 120 pluto
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amymaddalozzo



Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 145

Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 3:52 pm    Post subject: Election Reply with quote

James Marjorie Orr's article on her web site is interesting due to the psychological factors she brings up. Michelle Obama had very negative transits, and progressions for when President Obama was elected but that was due to Michelle having to adjust to the fishbowl existence.
Marjorie feels that astrology really cannot predict elections AMY
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Mark
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Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks James.

I will add your prediction to the list here.

Mark
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3740
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks amy and mark!

amy - if you have a link to the article where she discusses this, i would like to see it.. i don't disagree with her... in jill bidens day chart - we see saturn opp her natal venus, which is generally a difficult transit and especially for women... hard to know what it implies in terms of the outcome of the election, but on the surface it is generally viewed negatively... maybe it is a similar set up to michele obamas transits at the previous election she notes??

trump also has the same transit of saturn to natal venus... venus rules the 3rd and his brother has died.. perhaps his brother was an important family support for him here too which is now taken away.. i would agree with marjorie that it is not easy to predict election outcomes, but it is fun to try! i distinctly remember how impressed i was with the women from tuscon, i think it was who predicted way in advance that trump was going to win last time... her astrology was stellar and she shared it here at skyscript 4 years ago.. at the time i didn't give as much weight to the nodal axis transit as i do now... if mark or someone could find that post and share it again, it would be good... i think astrologers are capable of predicting an election outcome, but the number of techniques and approaches must be overwhelming to an outside observer...
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amymaddalozzo



Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 145

Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:27 pm    Post subject: Marjorie Orr Reply with quote

i think her web site is star4cast.com amy
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Mark
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Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It took some finding but here is the thread where Ellen predicted Trump's victory back in 2016.

I was looking for it in our old thread on the 2016 Presidential Election. But it wasn't there as she posted ages before that thread was opened. Ellen made her post in January 2016!

Not only did she predict Trump winning the presidency but she predicted his victory before he was even the confirmed Republican candidate and was still competing with others for the role! All based on the natal promise of just Trump's chart and his transits and progressions in 2016.

I know of only 4-5 other astrologers on the planet that managed that so early. Intriguing they all used the same approach just looking at Trump's strong natal promise/eminence and his transits and progressions and fixed stars. Since the election I retrospectively noticed Trump has very strong connections to both the 1776 chart and POTUS chart (1789). But that is all with the full benefit of hindsight. Full kudos to Ellen!

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9001

Mark

Note: A pity all her charts put up with Tiny pic have vanished.
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Last edited by Mark on Wed Aug 19, 2020 12:48 am; edited 1 time in total
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Mark
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Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

amymaddalozzo wrote:
Quote:
i think her web site is star4cast.com amy



Ok that is the website for the Scottish, London based astrologer Marjorie Orr.

However, I cant find any reference to Ellen. Unfortunately, I don't have her surname. All I know is that Ellen was based in Tuscon, Arizona, USA according to her profile. However, she doesn't come up in a list of professionals operating in the state.

https://www.findastrologer.com/find-astrologers/by-location/arizona/

She has either moved, passed on or never did astrology as a registered practitioner. I really hope its not the second option!

Mark
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Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
Posts: 1601
Location: California, USA

Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been checking a few of the links posted on the USA Election Prediction topic. To support the premise that there may be election result changes between the election date and inauguration date, a prediction by an Indian astrologer is relevant. Mark has this man's prediction for a Biden win on his list, but KT astrologer didn't exactly predict his win without qualifications.

Kathir Subbiah, KT Astrologer wrote:
Quote:
May 12, 2020
The current scheduled date which of Tuesday, Nov 3, 2020 is not looking good for President Trump. In case, if the election were to happens on Nov 3, 2020 and the results came out on the same day, then President Trump will lose the election. In case if voting or polling results were to get delayed by 4 to 8 weeks, then Trump will get re-elected.

It may be a repeat of the Presidential Election between George W. Bush and Al Gore happened in Nov 7, 2000. If you were to recollect, the election results were withheld for around 5 weeks as it was too close to call in the State of Florida.

The other scenario is, President Trump, somehow manages to change the election date to hold the election on Tuesday Dec 15, 2020 or later instead of Nov 3, 2020, then President Trump will win the 2020 Presidential Election.

https://www.ktastro.com/Articles/English/1919333

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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

amy and mark,

amy - i know her website, but an unable to find a post where she discusses her views on predicting elections.. if you see it - please share.. thanks..

mark - thanks for finding ellens post and re posting it.. that was a moment of brilliance... it sure would be great if ellen showed up again! ps - amy wasn't referring to ellens post at any time, so there is no connection of ellen back to marjorie orr... that post by ellen sure was amazing!
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Mark
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Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Therese Hamilton wrote:

Quote:
I've been checking a few of the links posted on the USA Election Prediction topic. To support the premise that there may be election result changes between the election date and inauguration date, a prediction by an Indian astrologer is relevant. Mark has this man's prediction for a Biden win on his list, but KT astrologer didn't exactly predict his win without qualifications.


Hi Therese,

Your quite right that his prediction is more nuanced than the binary placement in my list suggests. I just wanted to get all the predictions I could find up first this week. It is a lot of work just putting the basic list together. I am planning to put notes on some like this one that have caveats. His prediction was that Trump loses if the result is normal. But if the result is excessively delayed Trump's chances significantly increase.

A repeat of the down to the wire controversial 2000 election is a possibility. Another extremely rare but quite dark scenario would be if neither candidate actually got the minimum number of Electoral College votes to win (270). What happens then? The decision then passes to House of Representatives. You might think that would favour the Democrats as they are better represented in the House of Representatives. But the reality is it would probably help Trump more than Biden.

As is outlined in the 12th Amendment to the Constitution, if both candidates fail to reach 270 electoral votes, the election goes to Congress. The newly-elected House of Representatives selects the president from the three individuals who received the most Electoral votes. This means that a third party candidate could technically be an option if they were able to win a state. Each state delegation gets only one vote in the House contest, So it’s not as if all 435 members are voting individually. Instead, the whole state delegation gets a single vote for president. So even though the Democrats have more seats in the House this will not count for much. With each state only getting 1 vote this favors the Republicans as there are more GOP states.
So this scenario (which hasn't happened since the disputed election of 1876) would likely be good for Donald Trump unless there is some sort of Republican revolt against the nominee. Can you just imagine how the public might respond if Biden got say 5 million more votes than Trump and an equal number of electoral college votes but the House votes for Trump? Lets hope this scenario doesn't play out at such a politically polarised period in American history.

Several astrologers have commented that the inauguration chart looks toxic with Pluto on the MC. The Moon depending on your definition is either VOC or applying to a square of the Sun (POTUS), and Saturn and going on to conjunct that Mars-Uranus conjunction. This could include serious social disruption and agitation. Suggestions have included death of the winning candidate before inauguration, assassination, or a highly controversial election result even more disputed than 2000. Many think that if Trump manages to get re-elected with far less of the popular vote angry voters will take to the streets in protest.

Other interpretations include a worsening second wave of Covid-19. Another possibility is a major economic downturn of almost unparalleled scale. This could threaten the status of the US dollar as fiat world currency. China and Russia already announced last week they were reducing their reliance on the US dollar. If US bonds become devalued on the global markets the value of the US dollar could plummet forcing a major re-adjustment away from the US Dollar as the global fiat currency. A position the US Dollar has had since the Breton-Woods Agreement of 1944. And in modern terms since the Nixon shock of 1971 when the US Dollar became the fiat global currency detached from the gold standard in free floating currency exchange markets.

https://www.fxstreet.com/news/china-and-russia-ditch-us-dollar-202008070252

Mark
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Last edited by Mark on Tue Aug 18, 2020 7:34 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Mark
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Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

James-M wrote:

Quote:
amy - i know her website, but an unable to find a post where she discusses her views on predicting elections.. if you see it - please share.. thanks..


James check out my list. I also include astrologers who just comment on the election without making a specific prediction further down.

That includes Marjorie Orr. She has written pieces on Biden and Trump

Mark
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks mark,

i didn't look at any 2021 inauguration chart.... is it a fixed date and time for that? i thought it fluctuated some? give me the data and i will post the chart and comment.. thanks..
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Mark
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Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello James,

All US Presidential inaugurations since 1937 have been held on the 20th of January every 4 years. The only exception is when that date falls on a Sunday.

Sorry, I assumed you had already studied the inauguration chart for your prediction. As I said in my comments above since this chart is so graphic it has already generated considerable astrological debate on how it will play out.

I covered most of the major theories put out above including a few of my own.

.
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Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
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Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark, though we've had our disagreements on Skyscript, your latest post on what can happen in U.S. elections is an important summary of possibilities. It's good that anyone making predictions for U.S. elections be familiar with the protocol following a less than clear outcome on election day.

Quote:
Your quite right that his prediction is more nuanced than the binary placement in my list suggests. I just wanted to get all the predictions I could find up first this week. It is a lot of work just putting the basic list together.

Yes, it's indeed impressive how may predictions have been posted on the U.S. election site. Due to health issues I haven't really looked at the astrology for the election date, but I'm not liking that the inaugural enneads and quarti-enneads (10 day charts) seem to favor Trump over Biden and Harris.

I think the transit of Mars and Uranus in the same degree (only 4 minutes apart!) in sidereal Aries, and both having risen above the ascendant and conjoining the Moon in the inaugural chart means that we aren't likely to see an inaugural without controversy.

It's important how these planets interact with candidate charts between the election and inaugural dates. They are transiting in Ketu's star (mansion), so the placement of Ketu in candidate charts can be an important election key. Then there is the five planet stellium in sidereal Capricorn (four planets in tropical Aquarius) conjunct the MC in the inaugural chart. It certainly is a dramatic chart.

Here is the Sidereal (Krishnamurti ayanamsa) Inauguration Chart:


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james_m



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Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks mark and therese,

which is more important? the day a person gets cancer, or the day they die from it?? this fixed january 20th date might be important, but for the election win - the nov 3rd date is much more important... inauguration takes on a different meaning..

i was aware of the date, but have noticed it is not always 12 noon... that was what i was referring to... oh well! thanks for the precision charts in both zodiacs...

therese, i am sorry you are not healthy enough to give a prediction..

all the planets in the chart are held within a trine of venus- uranus in fire or earth depending on your zodiac... the midpoints via cosmobiology are all fairly challenging as i see it... the sun-moon square is besieged by pluto- saturn.. saturn is 45 neptune... neptune is 90 the nodal axis... it would seem to me the covid is going to be around still based on all this and it will play into the dynamics of all this.. moon applies to the 5th house ruler sun using sidereal... that seems mildly positive, except the saturn lording it over the whole chart in hard aspect to moon, mars and uranus seems rather harsh looking... law and order to prevent the complete breakdown of the empire?? i imagine that is what will be sold... mars certainly looks even more rebellious in the conjunction to uranus here! and it is ruling over the ascendant and 8th and rather strong! and it is the malefic that is of the opposite sect to the chart... all those CHAZ zones, and etc. etc. seem to remind me of this..

there are certainly some interesting cross over aspects between the 2 candidates charts and this inauguration chart which i won't articulate here... interesting times!
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