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US Presidential Election 2020
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Graham F



Joined: 22 Mar 2008
Posts: 374

Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well done Unique_astrology for the prediction re late September / October.

I've realised Trump's Tweet was just before 1am according to NYT, the 6:54 time I mentioned must have been converted to CET (though screenshot of tweet taken from the NYT).
I've corrected re transiting asc and MC in Washington (Asc conjunct natal Sat, MC square natal MC).
Also nodes are applying <2° natal nodes.
Graham
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3740
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

unique_astrology wrote:

Now I add 2 charts that indicate to me that tRump will be limited to 1 term in office. They are the birth chart for his term along with transits to it for election night and that birth chart progressed to election night along with those same transits to it.

Inaugural Natal Chart with Election Night Transits

Not shown - Trump's natal Saturn on the IC at 295°43'. Transiting Saturn and Pluto are in opposition to it.




Progressed Inaugural Chart with Election Night Transits

Not shown - Trump's natal Saturn on the Desc at 224°15. Transiting Saturn and Pluto are in opposition to it.




unique_astrology wrote:
Response to ****** (Reply #1) Tue Jul 28, 2020, 02:31 AM

"The heat on trump intensifies between now and through September. Around September 29 the roof collapses but the walls remain standing. One by one they also collapse in October, the last one falling just several days before the election."

The timing provided by progressed anlunars.


hi bob,

i am trying to get a clear grip on what you are looking at, so i have recreated these charts for myself... i am mystified at your quote in the above post immediately above... if you posted this on skyscript, it is not on this thread!! where exactly did you grab it from?? thanks...

also, is the basis for your prediction purely the position of progressions off the 2017 inauguration date? or is there something else to it??

for clarity, i think everyone sees the pluto opposite saturn... is this the primary basis for your claim in the 2nd post Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:23 pm ? just looking for more clarify on all of this so i can comment with more understanding.. thanks..
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Mark
Moderator


Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 5182
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unique astrology wrote:
Quote:
Note: ….discrepancies have been corrected in the charts
.

Maybe astrologically Bob but not politically!

You have scanned in charts that use that same insulting wording of Trump's name I raised with you previously on this forum. Whatever, our personal political feelings I am trying to operate as impartially as I can on this forum so that potentially incendiary input on either side of the political divide is not allowed to go unchecked.

I cant edit these references on your charts as they are scanned in. Please either repost your charts without this or I will be forced to delete them entirely.

If you haven't updated your charts by Monday I am removing them.

James your reply also includes these charts in dispute. I am sorry but I may need to delete your post too.

Thank you

Mark Cullen
Mundane & Financial Astrology Moderator
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As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3740
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi mark,

no problem! i am still waiting on bob on a response to my enquiry on his posts!
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michaelb1



Joined: 03 Sep 2020
Posts: 4

Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,
Please try overlook my bad writing skills. Hopefully the astro I present will solve some of that problem.

This is only about Pres. Trump. This is attempt to show the stretch of time from his announcement 2015, to nomination + election 2016 through coming election.

At various places I will make comparison between the 10:54 chart vs. Starkman chart 10:47:54 Asc. 28Le45 D. Oracle. That is, unless most recently he has calculated another time. A quick check between the two.

With somewhat different Asc. degrees this effects exact dates for various 'hits' and or periods of time using PDs. Otherwise, reading of chart, nothing really changes between the two.

The four major parts Fortuna, Spirit, Necessity, Eros only change close to a degree difference. They remain in the same Sign for either chart.

Real quick, 10:54 time first, Necessity 26 Leo vs. 25 Leo, Eros 3 Virgo vs. 2 Virgo, Spirit 1 Pisces vs 0+ Pisces, Fortuna 28 Aqu. vs 26 Aquarius. Hope I made no typos with numbers. That goes for entire message, lot's of boring numbers I must present dating the stretch of time.

The two MC's nothing changes other than eventual hit dates using PDs. 10:54 MC 24+ TA, 10:47:54 22+ TA, This means Venus maintains two positions of dignity in MC, Sign Triplicity ruler. Saturn remains Bounds ruler.

Now the special part ??? Note he has five planets within 5+ degrees of each other. Get out that old Horary strip Allen Edwall gave us decades ago with that wonderful little program Horary Helper - to see what I am writing about.

The strip runs from 00 to 29 degrees. You will then note Mo 21, Sun 22, Sat 23, Ven 25 Mars 26. Quite a lineup.

Also, all of them play a role in his forward march in life. Sun always shares in that role. Moon Exalted ruler for MC Whether she aspect it or not she plays a role. Venus Sign + Trip ruler, Saturn Bounds ruler. Mars no digs in MC but might as well have since he aspects MC degree into the bounds for either chart. Bounds Taurus from 22 to 27. All of this For Good or Bad.

Now note where these five send aspects. Look at Virgo. Egyptian bounds. Something real interesting with bounds in both Virgo and Libra. Have you ever noted they both have bounds from 21 to 28. Virgo ruled by Mars. In Libra 21 to 28 ruled by Venus.

The Virgo bounds first. Four of the five aspect those bounds, Mars is left out. Libra, all five send aspect to the fenced in area in Libra 21 to 28.

Now direct the Asc. to Venus bounds Libra using Oracle 10:54 chart Option Circumambulations. Directed Asc. arriving at Venus bounds the Five rise to attention. -A- To Venus bounds 12-22-2010 to 11-14- 2019. The first stretch of time indicator.

Circumambulations 10:47:54 chart. .............. -B- To Venus bounds 7-2-2012 to 5-26-2021 well beyond election and Inauguration day.

Sorry for all these boring numbers but more by STANDARD PDs Semi Arc Naibod again from D. Oracle. For what it's worth I prefer standard PDs and 10:54 chart.

10:54 cht. to Venus bounds 11-30-2011 to 12-8-2020. This takes us beyond election day. Compare to -A- above

10:47:54 to Venus bounds 6-18-2013 to Mars 6-28-2022 well beyond election Inauguration. Compare to -B- Take your pick, smile.

As you can see Directed Asc. came to Venus bounds well before his first election. It is still in effect now at coming election with the slight differences I list above. Will this carry him toward another victory during this stretch of time?

To election day. Everyone knows Merc is at direct station generally a positive in the old astro. Yet appears everyone does not note what else he is doing then. He's also at his Heliacal rising, see D.Oracle.

Make a chart couple days before election day, then click Reports at top menu, then select Miscellaneous Reports, followed by Heliacal Phenomena see the listing.

Is Mercury a ruler of time for a major player in his forward march in life. Yes, directed Sun to Virgo, Mercury then becomes the overall ruler for Sun (as Bounds ruler). Then Valens told us about such a planet at phase and direct station at a hand over. This generally a positive indicator.

10:54 chart Sun to Virgo Mercury bounds 6-17-2020.
10:47:54 chart Sun to Virgo Merc bounds 8-16-2020.

Then look at Mercury degree at station 25 Libra. He now climbs into that fenced in area where the five that, have a say in his forward march in life send their aspects. Again, they are all standing at attention. Plus, Mercury aspects all five in the natal at this station transit.

I may have a chart about Trump contacting the bug but that probably fits better in his virus topic.Hope some of this was interesting.
Here is hoping You and Yours are as bug n virus free as can be, Michaelb
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unique_astrology



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 179

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

James,

The quote is from another site I posted on.

My conclusions are drawn from progressed lunar returns, secondary progressions, and transits to various charts.
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3740
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bob,

thanks! i am curious if you think the health issue is captured in all of your data.. i know the transit of saturn to his natal 6th and in opposition to the venus-saturn conjunction in his chart has been discussed by a number of us and is also seen in the solar return chart.. so the topic of his health more generally has been discussed previously... i am not sure if this would catch the topic of covid, but probably.. the TROPICAL solar return 2020 has the ascendant axis right at this venus-saturn in opp to transiting pluto-jupiter-saturn....

it remains to be seen how this plays out... my own thinking is if someone puts a lot of faith in transits to the 2020 solar return, it will get interesting how the sun-mars opp and new moon from oct 13 to oct 16 as that would appear to be a period of greater tension as it squares onto this opposition formed in trumps solar return and natal chart over the 6/12 axis in his natal chart... cheers james

edit - i see now an announcement trump is leaving the hospital today 6pm..
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WooWoo



Joined: 05 Apr 2013
Posts: 1827

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I was the 10,000 View !

Heh ?

For me Trump has the Node transiting his Node just before the Vote ..

Saturn 150° to his Mars.

Pluto following in on that ....

But Jupiter doing something similar.

Pluto continues to Station EXACTLY 150° to his Mars in Late April.

H
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nipoleon



Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 186
Location: Las Vegas

Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is the chart I have done for the day of the election.
Nov.3rd at the time the polls open in Washington DC, 7AM.
( oops, I labeled it 11-2, the chart is calculated for 11-3 )



I give Trump the 1st, Scorpio and Mars.
I give Biden the 7th. of the challenger, Taurus and Venus.

Mars is exalted but retrograde in the 5th.
Venus is exalted in the 11th.

Venus and Mars in opposition is fitting for the conflict between the parties.

The previous major aspect of the Moon was a trine to Venus ( Biden ). It had made an inconjunct to the Sun and a semi-sextile to Uranus. The inconjunct to the Sun indicates an adjustment in the office. The semi-sextile from Uranus shows Trumps unexpected health issue.

The Part of Fortune in the 7th. shows the focus on the public. Being in Gemini show the decision the public must make and how they are divided in their minds.

The ruler of the 10th. is the Sun and in the Via Combusts in the 12th. Being in Via Combusts shows how afflicted the office has become.
The Presidency is lost, hidden, and unseen to Trump.

Mars ( Trump ) in the 5th. indicates he views the election as a game. He doesn't really take it seriously. Mars being retrograde shows that he is revisiting an old situation. He is under the influence of his children. I imagine he's listening too much to his children than to real experts.

Venus ( Biden ) is in the 11th. This shows the help he is getting from groups, friends, and organizations. The 11th. is ruled by Mercury which is in the 12th. and received by Venus.

Mercury in the 12th. shows groups and allies are hidden from Trump. Those allies are received by Biden and unavailable to Trump. Mercury is also in the Via Combusta and I imagine that many of those allies are not the most virtuous and humanitarian in nature.

It should also be noticed that Mercury is also retrograde ( it goes direct the next day ). Retrograde Mercury does not mean failure as many people think. It means difficulties and possibly false starts. It think it will take a few days before the election results are known definitely.

Biden is simply more favorably placed and has better support than Trump.

Biden should win.
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 1104

Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nipolean - I follow Lilly's rules to move planets and other bodies into houses they are within 5 degrees of and in that chart it has 10th lord Sun in the ascendant and Mars in Aries as the ascendant lord. I don't really think Venus in Libra can defeat Mars in Aries in a battle chart. Mars has house dignity, it isn't exalted. Venus is even afflicted by an opp to Mars and you wouldn't say Mars is afflicted by Venus. The PoF is in the 8th (as is the NN), not the 7th, IMO. I guess I have the complete opposite interpretation of your event chart. Your chart is similar to mine where there are fixed angles suggesting lack of change too, IMO.
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nipoleon



Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 186
Location: Las Vegas

Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tanit3333 First off your right, the POF is in the 8th. not the 7th. but I don't think that changes anything.

In my opinion, the 5 deg. rule is probably one of the most misunderstood in astrology.
A planet is in the house it is in by degree and nothing else. Sure, a planet close to the cusp of the next house certainly has an effect upon the next house but that doesn't mean it occupies that house or belongs there.
If a child is born and raised in a house that doesn't mean that he belongs in the house next door.

I've seen a lot of people try to see good things they want by saying that planets belong in houses they don't actually occupy.

That's also true of the mutual reception rule, that planets can change places in the chart through mutual reception. No, you can't transform bad aspects into good ones through such trickery.

The dignities I give are purely according to the signs they occupy. Venus and Mars are in the signs they rule and therefore exalted.

Naturally, what I say in my interpretations are from my own experience in what I have seen work. I don't lay claim to any authority.
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 1104

Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I've seen a lot of people try to see good things they want by saying that planets belong in houses they don't actually occupy.


If this is meant to say I want Trump to win, you are mistaken. I always use this rule and it is an ancient technique, not something thrown out on a whim. I don't use Placidus though.

Some people use whole sign houses to keep their system the same as well.
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Mark
Moderator


Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 5182
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nipoleon wrote:

Quote:
In my opinion, the 5 deg. rule is probably one of the most misunderstood in astrology. A planet is in the house it is in by degree and nothing else. Sure, a planet close to the cusp of the next house certainly has an effect upon the next house but that doesn't mean it occupies that house or belongs there.


Your fully entitled to your view but at the end of the day it remains just that , another view to add to the pot. On a traditional forum like Skyscript your obviously going to get a lot of people disagreeing with you if you seek to dismiss the 5 degree rule. I also know some modern astrologers who apply a 3 degree variation of this. The logic being the influence of the cusp draws the planet into the neighbouring house.

As someone that generally uses whole sign houses for topics and quadrant degree cusps for designating strength I see this differently from you for a quite different reason. Hence both Venus and Mars are in the 6th and 12th by whole sign houses but are assisted somewhat by their quadrant angle succedent placement.

Its fair enough doing a 7am chart time. The late Sylvia De Long used to advocate this sunrise chart approach for Presidential elections. Although in recent decades the so called opening of poll chart based on 00.00 on election day has got much more popular based on certain New England areas such as Dixville Notch in New Hampshire that start voting at 00.00 hours.

As regards your delineation I suppose the reason you dont delineate the MC ruler (Sun) exactly conj the ASC as favouring the incumbent is because it always falls in this position at this time of the day in November?. Similarly, if one uses an 00.00 time for opening of polls the Sun always falls near the IC. However, in the chart the Moon separates from Venus and applies to Mars indicating the that the crucial electoral college vote goes to the incumbent. The medieval astrologer Bonatti who was one of the originators of the so called 'battle chart' always taught that in a conflict the superior planets were stronger in a conflict than the inferior planets. Both Venus and Mars are domicile ruler (neither is ''exalted'') Mars is Rx here so that does weaken it slightly. On the other it has its joy in the 6th by WSH. Leaving all political favoritism out of this I have to say to me this chart looks like a slam dunk win for the incumbent astrologically.

Tanit, I sent you a PM earlier in the week. Could you please respond?

Thanks
Mark
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As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly
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nipoleon



Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 186
Location: Las Vegas

Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark
Quote:
Your fully entitled to your view but at the end of the day its remains just that , another view to add to the pot. On a traditional forum like Skyscript your obviously going to get a lot of people disagreeing with you if you seek to dismiss the 5 degree rule. I also know some modern astrologers who apply a 3 degree variation of this. The logic being the influence of the cusp draws the planet into the neighbouring house.


We must all adopt our analysis to what we have observed to actually work. If you read the books on Hoary analysis from Lilly to the present you'll notice that all the authors develop their own styles according to what they have observed. What works for them ( and I do think Lilly was the most right on astrologer in history ).

Personally, I like to keep my own style very simple. Cast the chart. Look at the planets in the houses. What standing do they have and what are they doing. What just happened? What is happening now? What will happen next?

I don't believe in going much deeper than that. It's very easy to fall into rabbit holes of arcane details and never make a judgement on the question. Or rather, make excuses for why the judgment didn't work out.
" That square was really a trine and that planet really goes over there ".

I know, astrologers can be very prickly about what they think is dogma but astrology is not a religion. Everything we think of in astrology is knowledge that's been passed down from person to person through the ages. Every practitioner has adopted what he found worked for him and rejected what didn't.

Astrology is an art and each astrologer must be an artist with their own style and vision. Astrology must be practical and we must share what we learn with others. Ultimately, simply theorizing about things isn't good enough.
We must have the courage to make a prediction on the charts and admit to whether our predictions were right or wrong.
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 1104

Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark - Maybe you sent the PM to my old account (which is inactive)? I don't have any PMs in this account. My old account is Tanit and my new account is Tanit3333. Deb inactivated the other one when I asked her to back in 2009 or so.
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