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canuck election - oct 21st (Sidereal)

 
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Location: vancouver island

Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:50 pm    Post subject: canuck election - oct 21st (Sidereal) Reply with quote

charts are posted in sidereal - krisnamurti ayanamsha..


although there are about 5 main parties in canuck politics, the liberals who presently rule politically and led by justin trudeau and the conservatives under the leadership of andrew scheer, are considered the main contenders for our first past the gate form of democracy..

justin trudeau - dec 25th 1971 - 917pm, ottawa, canada

andrew scheer -may 20 1979 - 815am, ottawa, canada...

the election date is oct 21st..

they are both born where the canadian parliament is located in ottawa, canada... i wonder if that is a coincidence?



the chart has a western hemisphere emphasis which suggests justin is subject to the whims of fate, as opposed to having a lot of control over his destiny... i will comment more on his chart later, hopefully...



andrew scheer, on the other hand, has a chart eastern hemisphere in emphasis which suggests he controls his destiny and fate thru the use of his own actions and decisions and less influenced by others.. i believe a particular yoga is set up in scheers chart having all the planets contained inside the nodal axis.. i will look it up and comment later..

it is interesting how the term or bound rulers for the angles in both leaders charts reflect the eastern or western orientation of the chart - scheer with the angles in the bounds of mars in his eastern hemisphere chart and trudeau with the angles in the bounds of venus in his western hemisphere chart..

both charts have all the planets contained within an opposition involving saturn... with trudeau it is with saturn- mercury and scheer saturn- moon..
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james_m



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Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

here is my general take based on the data off the solar returns of both leaders - trudeau and scheer... the astro seems more favourable for scheer.. trudeau astro seems more difficult by my read of this data... this is not to say trudeau can't still eek out a win, but i mostly see a minority gov't for canada with either of these 2 people being in the position of having to work with opposition parties to form some greater hold on power.. i will do another post on the profection data next, and weave it into what i have gotten so far...


in trudeaus solar return presently working one notices the ascendant, mercury, jupiter and mars all are in the same sign as from birth including the sun of course.. so one might must factor in the importance of these planet ingresses into the solar return data accordingly.. additionally venus and moon are in dignity in the solar return while being fine by sign in the natal chart, although not by house position with natal moon in the 8th and venus in the 6th... the importance of the is emphasized given that the same sign is rising in the solar return as is found in the natal chart... the presence of saturn in the solar return in a poor position to the sun - under the beams - takes away from the strength of the ascendant and chart as i see it..



here it is on a biwheel with solar return chart on the outside...




here is andrew scheers solar return for 2019... note the ascendant axis is conjunct andrews sun - descendant conjunction, and the midheaven axis in the solar return flips to make connections with his moon-nodal axis connections on this same axis... the sun is the closest planet to an angle and happens to rule the 10th in the solar return chart..



here is the biwheel where you can see the connections i speak of... an additional factor is andrews saturn in leo comes to the midheaven in the 2019 solar return chart...

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james_m



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Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the profection lord for trudeau at present is moon / cancer... moon is in pisces in the 8th house of trudeaus chart.. in the 2018 solar return in effect at present, the moon is in cancer in the 12th house...

the profection lord for scheer at present is venus / libra... venus is in aries in the 11th house of scheers chart.. in the solar return for 2019, venus is in taurus in the 7th house...

just based on the location of the profection lord in the solar return charts, the p lord is set up more favourably in scheers chart for the present year... 12th house profections are not considered positive.. this is the set up for trudeau... 5th house profections seem more favourable...

so, i suppose it depends on what one wants to get greater emphasis on - the solar return chart, or the natal chart... scheers astro seems stronger taking into account the profection lords position and how it dovetails with the solar return chart too...

primary directions in effect
... i don't have a strong impression on how this might tip either chart in a favourable or infavourable way...

justin trudeau.. the square of mercury directs to venus nov 12, 2019.. the sextile of sun directs to moon via converse pds january 24th 2020.. sextile of mars directs to moon feb 2nd 2020... in looking at the chart for the specific ingress time, jupiter is situated in the 6th house of the ingress chart.. if that is any indication, the jupiter ingress is not as positive as it might look like on the surface..

saturn directs to conjunct jupiter may 18, 2020, very close to andrew scheers birthday... saturn is debilitated and jupiter is exalted.. saturn rules the (quadrant houses ) midheaven and jupiter rules the 7th and 10th using whole sign houses..

transit data for day of election...

justin trudeau is experiencing a jupiter return very close to the election date... there is really nothing else of significance in the transit data for him and certainly nothing all that serious as i see it..

venus-mercury in opposition to mercury in scheers chart.. mercury is the ascendant ruler... north node exact on scheers ascendant, while saturn transit is in 2 degree conjunction to scheers descendant.. t mars is in a 2 degree square to scheers ascendant axis.... in fact, there is a 4 degree orb square involving mars and saturn that hits the ascendant angle of scheers chart, which offsets the positive venus-mercury data first listed...

i think the transit data slightly favours justin trudeau here... however, i tend to think of north node on the ascendant as very positive and this is happening on andrew scheers chart... also, an open question for me is the transit of saturn in the 7th in scheers chart... i think saturn does really well in the 7th house and that this transit, although always a challenge since it involves saturn - it is ultimately a good transit, something like saturn on the midheaven... so, maybe my view on the transits is based on subjective bias on the position of saturn here and not really accurate..
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james_m



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Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

another additional comment on the charts that i would like to make is this...

there is mutual reception in trudeaus chart between venus-saturn and with mars-jupiter... what this means to me is that any time any of these planets become profection lords, it would favour a more positive outcome.. it would also depend on how the planets are set up in the solar return, but in trudeaus chart these planets are essentially in a trine relationship with one another in his natal chart...

indian astrology acknowledges the trine aspect when jupiter is involved, but not with saturn or venus... perhaps i can have a closer look at the aspect relationships from an traditional indian astro perspective and offer more comments...

in andrew scheers chart, there is no set up with mutual reception..

here is another observation on the 2 mens charts...

trudeaus chart has a venus-north node conjunction.. venus rules the midheaven..

scheer has a saturn-north node conjunction.. saturn rules the midheaven..
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Mark
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Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi James,

I like opening poll charts. When do the polls open in Canada?

Thanks

Mark
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3518
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi mark,

i don't know the answer to that question and i am not sure how to find out..

the opening polls will first take place on the east coast of canada - newfoundland- labrador is my guess... that will be a good few hours before they take place on the west coast where i am... i will see if i can find out, but i will be doing this via the internet as well..

https://www.elections.ca/home.aspx

i just called the 1-800 number now.. 9am newfoundland time on the 21st of october seems to be the answer.. i will make a chart for it... but, since i have you here mark.. i have been posting in sidereal for the whole thread... i have been encouraged to be consistent given the previous thread request, so it too will be in sidereal..



cheers james
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Mark
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Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

James_M wrote:
Quote:
i just called the 1-800 number now.. 9am newfoundland time on the 21st of october seems to be the answer.. i will make a chart for it...


Thanks. Its an interesting discussion in such a large country like Canada crossing so many time zones. One approach is to take the earliest location as you have done. But if the polls are actually opening at the same time in local time you could take the chart for the capital city. It was different in the US Presidential elections as the polls actually open just after midnight in a few locations and I think 7am in Washington DC. Yet another alternative is a sunrise chart. We dont face this challenge in most European countries as you can simply use a chart for the capital city.

James_M wrote:
Quote:
but, since i have you here mark.. i have been posting in sidereal for the whole thread... i have been encouraged to be consistent given the previous thread request, so it too will be in sidereal..


Thank you! I will be equally consistent and avoid posting here. I dont know if you noticed but I have started a practice of labelling all mundane threads now as tropical or sidereal. Or in your case tropical +sidereal. Laughing

Comparing these kind of charts in both zodiacs might be an interesting research topic. I have found opening of poll charts (tropical) very reliable in predicting UK General elections.

Mark
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james_m



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Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:17 pm    Post subject: distrubitions Reply with quote

hi mark,

thanks! yes, i see what you are doing and i will try to help in doing that myself the next time i start a thread here in the mundane forum..

with regard the chart for the polls opening in st. johns verses ottawa - there is very little difference between the charts, so i will let you work that out and not post another chart for the ottawa location here.....

distributions thru the bounds...

i am trying understand the concept of distribution thru the bounds and who the distribution lords are that oversee this moment in time for both trudeau and scheer... if anyone with more knowledge on this technique is reading and can comment - that would be most helpful... i am using egyptian bounds as done by abu ma'shar... as i understand it, this is done mostly with the ascendant, especially for health matters, but it is done with the midheaven for honours and such dynamics that i would associate with winning a federal election and becoming prime minister... below is a chart of the primary directions for the date of the election showing the bounds of just where the midheaven degree has been directed to in trudeaus chart for now..

the degree and minute for the primary direction of the midheaven is 17 gemini 47.. the pd of the ascendant is 15 virgo 49... these spots are marked by the black arrow on the outside of the chart.. for the midheaven, it is still contained within the bound of venus, getting ready to change to mars.. as i understand it, this means that venus in trudeaus chart takes on greater significance in determining any change or continuation in his status.. i really am in over my head in understanding how to dovetail this info - if i have it right - with the data i have previously discussed so far..



below is andrew scheers primary directions for the date of the election..midheaven is at 6 aries 35 and ascendant at 19 cancer 52.. midheaven is within the bounds of venus and ascendant is within the bounds of jupiter... i am not sure what to make of it all, except to note the close proximity of the venus-mars conjunction in andrew scheers natal chart..




probably not until i fully read this 700 page book that ben dykes has translated from abu ma'shar - on the revolutions of the years of nativities, will i be able to properly understand how to use the distribution lords... stay tuned!
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Mark
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Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

James_M wrote:
Quote:
i am trying understand the concept of distribution thru the bounds and who the distribution lords are that oversee this moment in time for both trudeau and scheer... if anyone with more knowledge on this technique is reading and can comment - that would be most helpful... i am using egyptian bounds as done by abu ma'shar... as i understand it, this is done mostly with the ascendant, especially for health matters, but it is done with the midheaven for honours and such dynamics that i would associate with winning a federal election and becoming prime minister... below is a chart of the primary directions for the date of the election showing the bounds of just where the midheaven degree has been directed to in trudeaus chart for now..


There are essentially two basic methods of 'distribution through the bounds'. The older method involved using the ascensional rising time of the ascendant based on location. The later method used primary directions. Even in ancient times Ptolemy criticised the original method. The Perso-Arabs used both methods. I recall attending a workshop on distribution through the bounds with Benjamin Dykes some years back. Dykes was keen to promote the former ancient method. After calculating the method in our charts Dykes asked the audience to come up with hits from key life moments. With about 35 people there in the room it was striking that so few of us could find anything of significance using ascensional rising times method of distribution through the bounds. You can actually track various points in the horoscope by distribution through the bounds. For example, the sect light, or the renaissance Lord/Lady of the Geniture: which is the strongest planet for the hylegical points and angles: the Sun, Moon, Part of Fortune, Ascendant and Midheaven.

Mark
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james_m



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Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks mark!

the new book on persian nativities 4 that is a translation of abu ma'shars work by den dykes discusses this, although i have yet to read the whole book... in the back of the book are both a few pages of ascensional times and a couple of pages on how to use morinus software to reproduce the primary directions that would have been in use at the time...

it seems to me both ways are trying to do the same thing and the relevance of the location is central to both... the idea that one would direct the hyleg - whether that is the ascendant, moon, sun, or part of fortune is dependent on another set of rules, but essentially ben suggests directing the ascendant to have an understanding of how the issue of life and the invidivuals fate is unfolding - via the bounds the directed ascendant is found and the aspects the ascendant makes as it is directed from the starting point found in the birth chart..

so, perhaps the astro software does a better job of it, then the ascension tables found in the back of this book.. but again - it seems to me they are both trying to do the same thing.. maybe one works better..

in the case of worldly recognition and success defined in a similar manner - directing the midheaven thru the bounds should technically provide an insight into the potential success of either of these candidates - trudeau or scheer... presently the primary directed midheaven at 6 aries 35 in andrew scheers chart is very close to the position of the part of fortune and will be making contact with venus, mars and jupiter within the next few years.. if their natal positions in the 11th and 1 quadrant houses are of any relevance, it would appear that the significance of some of the ideas that get discussed frequently here at sksycript - diurnal verses nocturnal positions and etc - will have some first hand examples to work with... also, the idea of the quality of venus in aries as a net negative, verses the position of venus in the 11th as a net positive will also be put to work!! all in all, it would seem andrew scheers chart is a good working example of the nature of primary directions in directing the midheaven for an example of worldly recognition, or not! it is more complicated to see any of this in trudeaus chart....

added paragraph - (i am looking at the primary directions for trump since being elected and at present here.. it is quite interesting and maybe i will do a post on it.. it kind of turns upside down, some of the ideas one might have on the celestial quality of planets - dignity or debility and how they apply to trumps rise to power.. again, i might be reading it all wrong..)

however, that is only part of it and my understanding is still fairly limited here... thanks for your comments mark!
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Stefan



Joined: 31 May 2012
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Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For you James.



https://www.facebook.com/AstralGoddess/?__tn__=kC-R&eid=ARC7mD5Q5-WwwWBtVkFuDAXbSQFa_uZRogUjPoCzOChXHFoY9sNh53Zsj6HC5TLRqB1XlRgqFCnNf6eW&hc_ref=ARS3wA4n3nlPmp7oD1o_0EsfcB5Q-VNvdGfKtYo2motBsmEj8rZ-LqSReLVcbO5Xsbs&fref=nf&__xts__[0]=68.ARBKqNTJTXrY-7b2aAaFY3jBBY5cQRSslg2UWKNxV8r1cF8zj49qk-oDBI2Tb5Ag3si1lhPs-wrqMbHRjU8JumtzO29McopMO27aEwnERqqkbSm2jdMXeDwPyurHCldH0Ge_g2JtxEGrMjinR9HbLjM0A0yUBD3rAMAddwQxjn-hJ2hhbQwMI3nzs9YHtICfjNO1lwcmeJp1JQVifPz9L6DiQcaAg0nHLc4c6lPAp898W-Yq1idRXYKufvvBgSMHJoBSX9zMweaA87spw-DNo7TKLHNEkatGQ1jY5XHenvS1cJ_aqwT5xLuW_2pYkd4YMlsHqCwBtLoSWOtfFqiigKU4eg

Juliana Swanson one of my favourite astrologers (Neo vedic) did get it right. By simple means...

She also Predicted Trump win back in 2015.


Interwiew with her:
https://www.jyotishstar.com/jyotish-star-juliana%20swanso-shukla-june-2017.html
Quote:
You have had some remarkable success making world predictions, such as foreseeing the presidency of Donald Trump as far back as September 2015 and again in February 2016, before he was even nominated and when his candidacy was still held to be a “joke” by most people in the mainstream.
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james_m



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Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks stefan! i will check it all out.. cheers james
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james_m



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Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

this post is an attempt at an objective analysis of my own comments on the canuck election...

living in the country it is in many ways much easier for me to have a better perspective on how this election played out... i wasn't approaching this as an astrologer predictiing who was going to win or lose.. unfortunately for canucks, the playing field is fairly static.. what i mean by this is that essentially since canadas inception, the country has been either governed by the conservatives or the liberals.. i focused on the 2 leaders of these 2 parites.. this is not to say that i wouldn't like to give all the other parties - quebec bloc, ndp, greens, ppc and etc some consideration too, but the fact is the birth date on the 2 leaders of the 2 longest running parties in canada was available with accurate birth data on these 2 man.. the same can't be said for the others where the times are not available!

so, this election was really a vote on the past 4 years of trudeaus liberal gov't policies and how people felt about all that at election time...

my prognosis was that i felt the astrology was better for scheer then it was for trudeau... i made no comment on who was going to win the election! i did however say that i thought the astro favoured andrew scheer the leader of the conservatives more then it did trudeau the leader of the liberals....

there is the change from the previous election held 4 years ago...

Liberal

–29

Conservative

+23

Bloc Québécois

+22

New Democrat

–18

Green

+1

Independent

+1

People's Party

0

Other

0

https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/elections/federal/2019/results/

it is true the liberals '''won''' the election, but they now have a minority gov't as oppsed to the majority gov't they had the previous 4 years.. trudeau did not do as well this time around as he did last time... scheer who took over the conservative party from stephen harper did what he did, but it wasn't enough to gain a minority or majority gov't position here..

my views on my astro overview are this.. scheer didn't do as well as i thought he might based on my astro read and trudeau didn't do as poorly as i thought he might.. however the direction that both leaders of the 2 leading parties of canada was in the right direction as can be seen from the change from the election 4 years ago...

i might put less emphasis on the primary directions if i was to do it again... i would also put emphasis on transit neptune on the midheaven in scheer, the conservative leaders chart next time... i have been trying to stay away from using the outer planets as an exercise in astro discipline, but i feel this transit neptune on scheers midheaven was a factor in lessening the positive spin i read without the outers...

there you have it!!! on to the next astro challenge!!
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