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Skyscript Astrology Forum

boris johnson - uk- brexit - etc (Tropical & Sidereal)
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3519
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:04 pm    Post subject: boris johnson - uk- brexit - etc (Tropical & Sidereal) Reply with quote

first off - welcome back mark!! thanks for your kind words too...

i posted on boris johnson about 3 years ago here
http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9172

some of the charts are missing, but if you are interested you can check that link for a number of charts and insights...

boris was sworn in yesterday - july 24th at approximately 312pm according to marjorie orr.. the chart below is for this time...



i have been getting into indian astrology and learning about the importance of yogas.. here is my take on them via the tropical chart above and my very limited understanding of them... the ascendant and 10th house ruler in the 10th suggests a strong capable chart...indian astrology seems to ignore the midheaven, but i'm generalizing.. mars is the malefic of the opposite sect here which implies some problems connected to it being too aggressive in itself.. as i understand it for a scorpio ascendant in indian astrology the malefics are venus and mercury..

the moon ruler of the 9th in the 6th is unfavourable.. it implies an inability to act in a productive way... moon is squaring mercury, the 8/11 ruler... this suggests the politicians are beholden to the corporations as i interpret it - 9th house ruler applying to 8th house ruler.. the 1st house ruler mars applying to the 2/5 house ruler is positive.. this suggests some of the speculation this gov't engages in might reap results... it gets complicated by the presence of neptune in the 5th however... depending on how you factor that in, will alter my comment on speculation.. generally jupiter in square to neptune oversees over idealistic speculation that ends poorly... it would seem to me from reading some articles today that boris has chosen a group of rabid hardliners who are intent on leaving the eu.. they might go for a quick election here and it might not pan out they way they hope.. all these last comments are my speculation... either way, they have inherited a challenging dynamic and they will be challenged to move forward here..

i believe the moon operates as a malefic according to indian astrology based on the phase it is presently in here.. saturn is conjunct ketu/pluto in the 3rd and opposite mercury, venus and rahu... saturn also aspects the 12th and 5th house.. depending on how one wants to see saturn here, this would cast a pale on houses 12, 5 and 9th...

i don't consider uranus and mars making the most obvious connection to the ascendant-descendant axis as favourable.. it is more unfriendly and unpredictable, which sort of goes with boris temperament as i see him... the whole cabinet look like a narrow minded group of ideologues with a very pro war agenda.. i hope i am wrong, but that is what it looks like to me..

below is the same chart in sidereal...



the house rulers change in sidereal! now the ascendant ruler - venus - is in the 10th, and conjunct the 9th house ruler - mercury which would be considered positive... however, the 10th house ruler - moon is in the 7th and in the early degrees of aries.. overall that is a mixed bag to me, based on my limited understanding of indian astrology..

there is mutual exchange between the 10th ruler moon and mars, the 7/2 house ruler... jupiter, the 3/6 ruler aspects the midheaven.. that sounds like a mixed bag to me.. i don't believe jupiter is considered a benefic to a libra ascendant chart!

thoughts on the position of saturn in the 3rd conjunction ketu and opp rahu, while ruling 4/5 houses seems to cast a pale on the 4/5 houses...again, the house of fun and speculation - 5 - seems marred as i read it.. perhaps local uk issues over scottish separation, and etc. etc. also play into this... craig murray has some interesting things to say on the recent turn of events under boris which one can read here..
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2019/07/johnsons-westminster-cabinet-is-far-to-the-right-of-thatcher/#respond

--------

in looking at boris's 2pm chart, i note the transit of rahu favours a rise to greater power transiting his own 10th house and gemini planets - coming up in the next year.. that is favourable for greater worldly success as i understand it... i am not sure if this has already mostly happened here, or if there is more to come...

here are some comments i made on boris 2pm chart to skyscript poster AJ from a few days ago - july 23rd.. some of my comments were triggered by AJ's comments!

"i haven't looked at his chart in a while.. i too am turned off by the rounded times - his being 2pm... oh well...
i did look at the chart for when he was elected today - 1205pm, but there will be a chart for his actual connection with the queen tomorrow which will be interesting to look at as well.. i thought the chart for today looked pretty good.. ruler of ascendant venus in the 10th, and moon in the 7th - ruler of the 10th.. set for london..

as for his natal chart as it presently stands, it certainly favours him for when they call the election, if they do it during the transit of rahu over his gemini planets.. in fact - rahu at 22 at present with the midheaven at 19 - makes me wonder if his time could be altered to have rahu exact on the midheaven right now?

the guy is a bozo, cut from the same rich cloth as trump... although i suspect boris has led a more privileged life style.. the way i see it, the powers that be are very determined to not let jeremy corbyn get anywhere near power.. they will do everything they can to try to subvert and block that... i really hope the people of uk are smart enough to vote for corbyn, but they might fall for this bozo boris..

venus cazimi i think is positive... there is a mutual exchange with venus and mercury too which is also positive.. i think the present transit of nodes where they are here really get an extra leg up to boris..

boris as i see it is an insider working for insiders.. and he has some appeal... saturn stationary retro really puts a strong focus on his saturn.. i am not as sure he is power hungry like trump, but maybe a bit.. trump is nuts and uranus is constantly saying - here comes the jack in the box! solar arcs suggest the time might be close.. sa midheaven is very close to opposite his natal saturn at present.. this would be a rise to a position of power as suggested by saturn in aq and connecting to the midheaven..

as you say P3 jupiter conjunct midheaven - mean tertiary progs is P3? here is another guy with jupiter in the 8th - like branson... these folks always seem to be given a free gift that they must deserve on some karmic level... i am not sure about the rest of us! mars is in taurus ruling it, so i am not sure how that all adds up..

personal life is always hell when you are running for some position of power.. i don't know that it phases these types of people... there are no planets in water in his chart which to me speaks of him spending very little time in contemplation or enjoying the dynamics of family and etc.. i could be wrong..

brexit is an albatross around his neck.."

that's it for now.. thanks..
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3519
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

if anyone finds the time of boris and queen handshake - please let me know.. i am relying on what marjorie orr has said, and would prefer to have another source to back it up.. thanks..

i have been given a link from AJ that says -

15:40
Boris Johnson is now officially the Prime Minister
15:38
Boris Johnson meets the queen

https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/local-news/live-boris-johnson-queen-speech-3130984

this suggests the 312pm time in my first post and that marjorir orr is working with is wrong.. i will fix it later...ascendant and midheaven signs remain the same with the 28 minute difference...


UK PM Boris Johnson says the UK "will come out of the EU on Oct 31st no ifs, no buts"

when does he call an election then?

here is the chart for oct 31st - noon... mercury is very powerful from the pov of it being stationary direct... the chart is very tight ignoring outers - all held within the mars-saturn square from a trad pov and would have to be considered difficult... from the mod view with outers - planets held within an opposition - slightly bigger then an opp - by about 17 degrees... no matter which chart is looked at - mars is besieged by square via saturn-pluto..mars rules the sun in the trop chart and is in the suns 12th house - not favourable..

using the noon time for these charts - mars rules the 12th in the tropical chart and the moon-jupiter conjunction in the sidereal chart... ascendant in both charts is in line with the nodal axis - ascendant conjunct ketu - some sort of letting go is implied... . the moon-jupiter conjunction in the tropical chart is 12th house and ruled by jupiter... all of it implies the public not being happy with the outcome as i read it... moon rules the 8th in the sidereal chart as well... jupiter is the asendant ruler and in the 12th - again - not positive..
big caveat is noon is an arbitrary time!!




and in sidereal..

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delaforge



Joined: 06 Jan 2007
Posts: 129

Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the UK, the P.M. is not sworn in. S/he meets the queen, who asks her/him to form a government. The meeting is private and so the exact time is never known to outsiders. Mr Johnson entered Buckingham Palace at 15:08. I estimated that he would meet the queen at 15:11. Ms Orr estimates 15:12. I doubt Johnson didn't meet the queen until 15:38. He left Buckingham Palace at around 15:40. I watched the events on live tv and took my times from there.
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3519
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks delaforge...

how does that jive with the data in the link i shared above which i share again here?

15:40
Boris Johnson is now officially the Prime Minister
15:38
Boris Johnson meets the queen

https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/local-news/live-boris-johnson-queen-speech-3130984

i had heard theresa may visited with the queen before boris..not sure when she came and went either...
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delaforge



Joined: 06 Jan 2007
Posts: 129

Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can see for yourself. Boris entered Buckingham Palace at 15:08. The queen was expecting him, so I doubt he was kept waiting 30 minutes! More likely he went straight to her.
Quote:
15:38
Boris Johnson meets the queen

Doesn't sound right to me. I'm with Ms Orr on this.
Mrs May left Buckingham Palace and then Mr Johnson set out to meet with the queen. Mrs May was with the queen for approximately half an hour. But I didn't take note of her arrival or departure time.
Mr Johnson entered the Palace at 15:08 and was with her for approximately half an hour.
I watched this play out myself.
But we don't get to see what goes on between the queen and her prospective Prime Minister. We only know for sure when Mr Johnson went in and when he came out.
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3519
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks delaforge...

is it possible the queen was visiting with theresa may when boris arrived?? i am going to sit on this for a while... technically one could make an argument for any number of times for when boris actually accepts the role of pm of the uk...
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delaforge



Joined: 06 Jan 2007
Posts: 129

Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No. Mrs May's car had left the palace before Mr Johnson's car set off for the palace.
Mr Johnson becomes P.M. at some point between 15:08 and 15:40. We have no way of knowing exactly when. It's a private meeting. With British P.M.'s it is always a guesstimate.
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WooWoo



Joined: 05 Apr 2013
Posts: 1476

Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My main interest with Astrology is Stocks and Stock Markets. And there is always the debate about how to derive "Good" Chart when a company Lists on the Stock Exchange.

Several may List on the same day at the same time, and they don't behave the same.

I feel that Johnson's Premiership has to be set against the Chart for the formation of the Conservative Government after the 2017 Election.

When May lost her Majority. In reality that is the Government that is still in power.

And Johnson faces the sale problems that that Chart laid down. Pretty well powerless.

H

PS I think I'll study his natal Chart too ad the next step.
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3519
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks delaforge... see my comments on this below..

thanks woowoo..

i like your idea... i don't have a chart for theresa mays 2nd gov't from june 8 2017... there is a thread here on skyscript, https://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9578&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

but no one put up a chart or mentioned a time when it became reality...

however, there is a chart for her first gov't 2016.. there are also some interesting comments on the thread which i would like to quote... it pertains to delaforge and my comments on finding the exact time of when boris johnson became the new pm... it is funny, but this seems to be the uk approach that leaves astrologers in the dark!

Mark wrote:

Remember this was done on live TV here in the United Kingdom. Just to cover all the times:

17:20. The announcement that the queen had accepted David Cameron's resignation.
17.21: Theresa May left for the palace from Westminster.
17:25: Theresa May arrives at Buckingham Palace and enters bulding.
17:41: BBC website show picture of Theresa May curtseying to Queen.
17:42: The announcement is made that TM had accepted the job.
17:57: Theresa May left Buckingham Palace
17:58: Buckigham Palace made their announcement.
1801: Theresa May arrived at No 10
18:02: Theresa May started her first speech
18:07: Theresa May entered number 10 Downing Street

The MC was on TM's sun at her speech and was over Uranus of the 1801 chart at the changeover.

So we know that sometime after 17:25 and before 17:40 she met the Queen and accepted the offer to lead the government. On the exact time the discussion has only been whether go for 17:30 or 17:35. Normally, this wouldn't matter much but the MC changed from Virgo to Libra at 17:33.

Mark


that is from this thread...https://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9183

doesn't it remind others of what has just happened?? that is the timing from 2016 election when theresa may became PM...

the overlap of theresa mays 1st government and the timing for boris becoming PM here is interesting for the connections made on the charts...

i think it works better using sidereal zodiac, so i am posting this using krishnamurti ayanamsa....one of the main reasons i like the sidereal chart is the ruler of the 9th - moon - is in the 12th, while the ruler of the 10th - sun - is in the 8th... this seems to really sum up theresa mays government from the get go.. one can't see that as easily in tropical zodiac..



i continue to use the 312pm time, but think it is later for boris johnson pm.. i am using the 535pm time mark used in the thread on the 2016 uk election... as you can see the angles are similar, though not the same... what is interesting is the location of the 8th house theresa may gov't - which rules the 10th - having the transit of pluto exact opposite via the bj pm chart... her gov't is officially destroyed!!! also of note are a number of other connections - t saturn- south node in the bj pm chart on the pluto in tmay gov't chart...

perhaps of more interest would be to take a look at boris johnsons chart again and that is what i plan to do!
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Stefan



Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 218
Location: Stockholm

Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

.


Looking at Boris Johnson chart for his recent success as achieving his goal to become prime minister.

Not that easy to spot instantly. But there is a progression in secondary progressed chart which is positive for him this time.

The progressed mars is semisquaring progressed Jupiter.

(P MA -45-P JU)

That can be seen as fortunate action. Not much however...but a clue.
The birthtime seems a bit uncertain being a 2 pm time...rounded ?.

But seems to be correct approximately due to the fact that the progressed Ascendant is aspecting Jupiter by opposition making that astrological event much more relevant and important. So the time seems quite fit.


( P ASC-180-P JU)

(using the solar arc in RA method of progressing the angles.
https://www.skyscript.co.uk/pran.html)


Now there should be a trigger....looking for lunations for example as often is seen as triggers of directions and progressions.
No near lunation in same week as he was becoming prime minister.
But...the solar eclipse 2nd july. At 16 degree gemini (sidereal) is conjunct his progressed Mars and is effectively trigger the aspect for a longer range of time than a lunation or transit does...

Yes I am happy with that one....

Below is his sidereal chart with secondary progressions....
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Stefan



Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 218
Location: Stockholm

Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

.



Looking at his Tertiary progressions we find another jupiter angle event for this time in his life.

Tertiary progressed Jupiter in his 10th house is closely squaring his ascendant.

(Tp JU-90-ASC)

This seems important too for his success right now. Question is if it will last...?



Sidereal chart with Tertiary progressions..

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Stefan



Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 218
Location: Stockholm

Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The observant reader will also see how the 2nd July eclipse at 16 Gemini (sidereal) is perfectly triggering this Tertiary progressed event as well....
Being conjunct progressed Jupiter...

As James also refered to the eminent british astrologer Ronald C Davisson in anothe post here recently..
Yes I concur. I am inspired by him as well.

(James said that he would post his chart in the sidereal forum as well.
There are interesting vedic combinations at play in his chart imo)


https://books.google.se/books?id=9p1igGF3gpUC&pg=PA212&lpg=PA212&dq=ronald+c+davisson+astrologer&source=bl&ots=1cCviO2apO&sig=ACfU3U3e15iERhUN5WvKmxIh2Dacy-gL6A&hl=sv&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjXyb6IqeDjAhX3wMQBHbAlBlc4ChDoATAIegQICRAB#v=onepage&q=ronald%20c%20davisson%20astrologer&f=false
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3519
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stefan,

those are really good observations.. thanks! aj and i were bouncing some comments back and forth via e mail and touched on some of this, but not what you have touched on!

via transits i mostly was considering rahu in the 10th moving towards the midheaven degree as a sign of increase in his professional position.. this is due to continue to a certain extent given the cluster of planets in gemini - talking sidereal - which includes a nodal axis return...

after that, i thought the solar arc midheaven to opposite saturn was relevant.. saturn is in trine position to his midheaven and other 10th house planets from the sign aquarius..

the 2019 solar return has midheaven at 22 cancer - square jupiter at 22 aries from the 8th as well.. i would consider that a positive inheritance of greater position.. other aspects of this i don't see as favourable - sr mars in opp to pluto, while the profection year is aries -mars - 8th sign - again sidereal data.. he might have been given this position of political power, but i think it is going to be a rocky road for him..

aj and i also discussed the uk 1801 chart.. there are a number of fascinating connections for this time frame using the solar arc directions and tertiary progressions.. perhaps i can comment on that and more on boris's sidereal chart when i find some free time!

thanks for your posts stefan - really great!
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Stefan



Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 218
Location: Stockholm

Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

.



The precession corrected transits for the 1066 chart are quite dramatic !


Tr. UR-00-ASC
Tr. PL-00-MC

Brexit is coming nearer. Today a shut down of parliament was discussed.

Quote:
Boris Johnson announced plans to suspend parliament for a critical five-week period in the run-up to Brexit.


Uranus precession corrected transit conjuncton with 1066 UK Ascendant spells sudden and new developments in the country, Brexit.

Precession corrected transit Pluto on MC have shown changes in leadership and intense clashes within the government.

Chart below with transits for the upcoming new moon. 30 Aug.
The new moon is 135' to MC and transit pluto, triggering the transit into effect this week. Transit Mars also 135' to same point...
Strange things happening in the UK these days..... Very Happy


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Stefan



Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 218
Location: Stockholm

Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

.


And this is the precession corrected transits new moon in brexit week in late october 2019.


The new moon is seen triggering the Uranus conjunct Ascendant transit.


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