2
In the 1840s Ireland was part of the British Empire. Today it is mostly an independent state. Ulster or Nothern Ireland is part of the UK.

Interestingly Campion does not give a chart for the Republic of Ireland, but rather he gives a chart for "UK Re-Organization" when Irish independence took place on Dec 7 1922. He gives 15:28 GMT but uses Westminster for a location.

As Dublin is the capital of Ireland, you might wish to relocate the chart for that city.

3
In his Book of World Horoscopes Nicholas Campion cites at least four possible horoscopes for Ireland:

The Easter Rising of 1916- 12:00 noon, 24th April 1916 (12:25 GMT) Dublin. Even though the rebellion was put down by the British this act represents a key symbolic moment in Irish republican and separatist identity to this day. Its equivalent to the 4th of July for Americans.

British rule in the 26 nationalist controlled counties of Ireland came de facto to an end with the surrender of Dublin Castle on the 16th January 1922 around 1.45pm. The British then renegotiated with Sinn Fein, and agreed to grant dominion status ie independence within the British Empire and under the British Crown. Similar status had already been granted to Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and Canada. Royal assent was given to the Irish Act, setting up the Irish Free State, by King George V when he signed the royal proclamation shortly before 17:00 GMT on December 6th 1922. The parliament of the newly created Irish Free state first assembled at 17:00pm GMT in Dublin on December 6th 1922. The newly created Irish Free state did not include the 6 predominantly protestant counties of northern Ireland. These are sometimes called 'Ulster' although in reality 3 of the 9 counties of Ulster joined the Irish free state.

Many Irish republicans were deeply unhappy with the settlement of 1922 because it did not include all 32 counties of Ireland with the partition of the 6 northern counties into 'Northern Ireland' which remained part of the newly formed United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Moreover, the treaty with Britain meant the Irish Free state (or Eire) remained part of the British Empire and retained the British monarchy as head of state. These disagreements led to a civil war in the Free state between the pragmatists willing to accept the treaty and those that rejected it.

Although the treaty rejectionists lost the Irish civil war one of their number-?amon de Valera eventually became the leader of the Free state and made it his political aim to achieve full political independence from Great Britain. This was finally achieved after WWII with the creation of the Irish Republic. Ireland left the newly created British commonwealth and severed all legal links with Great Britain including the recognition of the British monarchy. The Irish Republic came into existence at 00.00hrs (23:00 GMT) on 18th April 1949, in Dublin.

I believe the main astrological contenders are usually the charts for 1916, 1922 and 1949.

However, before diving in to look at any national chart I strongly recommend this article by the Irish astrologer Bill Sheeran. Its quite a long piece but asks some searching questions about how we use national charts. Bill himself looks at a Lunar eclipse chart timed for 1791!

http://www.radical-astrology.com/articl ... er1-1.html

Mark
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly

4
Mark,

I looked through the list of national charts and elsewhere and found nothing of what you listed. The list of charts goes from Iraq to Israel. If it isn't too much trouble could you cite page numbers? I have the second edition 3rd printing (revised) 1999.

I apologize for the error.

Tom

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Mark,

I looked through the list of national charts and elsewhere and found nothing of what you listed. The list of charts goes from Iraq to Israel. If it isn't too much trouble could you cite page numbers? I have the second edition 3rd printing (revised) 1999.

I apologize for the error.
Hi Tom,

I am sure its confused a lot of people since Campion decided to list the Irish Republic by its alternative gaelic name of Eire! :-?

Its in his book under under pages 106-109.

Mark
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly

8
Tom wrote:In the 1840s Ireland was part of the British Empire. Today it is mostly an independent state. Ulster or Nothern Ireland is part of the UK.


Only mostly an independent State? Do you know something that no one else knows? lol

Unless you mean that none of the EU member states is fully independent, which is true. But Ireland is fully independent of the UK. Ireland isn't even a member of the Commonwealth.

In the 1840s Ireland was part of the United Kingdom (the UK didn't exist until the union with Ireland, which saw the creation of the United Kingdom). It was also part of the British Empire. The British Empire and the United Kingdom shouldn't be conflated though. They overlap but they're not the same entities in nature, or space, or time.

Not meaning to imply that you conflated them Tom, just that it's a topic where there's a lot of incorrect use of terms (not least by politicians and civil servants who ought to know better).

Regards

H.

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Thinking over Lunlumo's original question if you are looking at Ireland in the 1840's I think the best you have is the 1801 chart for Great Britain and Ireland. Ireland was not a sovereign , independent nation in this period.

This chart is still used by a lot of UK astrologers today for the UK (including Nicholas Campion and Claire Chandler) although it ignores the fact that 26 of the 32 counties of Ireland have formed a separate, sovereign state for almost a century. I personally prefer the modern chart for the United Kingdom dated for 1927 when the state of The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland came into existence. I go along with Maurice McCann's point that this is a more logical chart for the modern UK.

Anyway, aside from the history and political details are there any astrological comments on the current situation in Ireland? I had been planning to open a thread on this and title it 'The unlucky Irish'. :(

Mark
Last edited by Mark on Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly

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When I wrote "Ireland" I mean the entire island. In other words in the 1840s there was one Ireland and it belonged to England. In the 21st century there are two Irelands on the same island. One is an independent Republic and the other is part of the UK.

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Just in case anyone is wondering why I am suggesting a 1927 (rather than 1922) chart for the modern United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland here a link to a thread where Maurice McCann sets out his research into this issue from his article from R?alta, the Irish astrological publication. Nicholas Campion doesn't display this important chart in his Book of World Horoscopes. You need to scroll a a couple of posts down to get to Maurice's article embeded in the thread.

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2003

In short the nomenclature of the UK was legally changed at 00:00, on April 12th 1927 (set for London), to recognise the separation of the majority of Ireland with the current name 'United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland' being adopted.

Mark
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly

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hello all,

I use the 1949 chart of the creation of the republic for a yearly forecast I write for a regional paper. I'm just sitting down to it this evening!

When I was deciding which chart to use I conferred with Bill Sheeran (www.radical-astrology.com) who uses a series of charts. I find it suits the nation well in its recent phase.

I'll also have a look at the chart of 1979, 30 March (Asc 29 canc, Moon 11 Tau). This is particularly relevant now as it's the "birth" of the modern Irish Punt when the parity link with British sterling was broken and an independent exchange rate was introduced.

I can post a link to my article when its published though I do keep it fairly upbeat and general to keep with the readership, rather than go into the details as I could with fellow astrologers.
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