13
I compare here Biden's first marriage with harmonic-8 and harmonic-9

Marriage 27 August 1966

In my opinion harmonic 8 shows the marriage much much better than harmonic 9.

Solar Return - Harmonic 8

solar AC = r VE/MN = r JU
solar VE = r MN
solar SU/VE = r VE
solar MO = r MC/SU
solar MC = r AC/JU = JU/UR
solar JU = r SU/MO
solar SU/MO = solar MC/VE = r AC

Image


Solar Return - Harmonic 9


I have marked the planetary pictures that have nothing to do with the marriage.

solar AC = r AC/MN = r AC/SA = r MC/MA = MC/UR
solar VE = solar MN = r MN/ZE = r SA/ZE
solar SU/VE = r MA/ZE = r UR/ZE = r JU/PL
solar MO = r MC/SU
solar MC = r SU/SA
solar JU = r SU/NE
solar SU/MO = solar MC/ME = r NE/ZE

Image
https://archive.org/details/@cemalcicek

14
Linchi wrote:
I wanted to show that the navamsa is controversial in vedic astrology, otherwise they would have only one navamsa but not four. This may also be that they will have more navamsa variations in the future.
Through the centuries there has been only one navamsa calculation which begins with zero Aries and follows through the zodiac in 12 sign order. I have used Jyotish software since the days of DOS (pre Windows from the 1980s), and I have never seen anything in the various software programs except the standard navamsa calculation.

Along comes the 21st century and maverick astrologers such as Sanjay Rath who want to open the astrological field to innovative ideas and research. K.N. Rao has also introduced various techniques that astrologers haven't used before. Anyone who wants to criticize India's astrology should first get a grasp of its history and development before jumping to conclusions with the aim of tearing down a centuries old structure.

I'm sorry, Linchi. I have been one of your main supporters, but now that I see where you are coming from, I have lost respect and interest in your research, and even question your results. You are jumping in with criticisms before even studying India's astrology and the topic of contemporary western harmonics which were first popularized by John Addey in the last century. You don't seem to understand that your way is not the only way to work with the zodiac circle.

I didn't want to write this post, but it's important that India's navamsa is placed in historical perspective for those who read this forum topic.

(For information, I have not read Linchi's posts which Martin censored. I sensed the negative energy and didn't want to be involved in that.)
Last edited by Therese Hamilton on Mon Dec 20, 2021 7:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
http://www.snowcrest.net/sunrise/LostZodiac.htm

15
Astrology is a science not a religion.
We must control every assertion and every rule. If we are not allowed to control even not to speak our opinions, then it is a religion.
Therese Hamilton wrote:Linchi wrote:
I wanted to show that the navamsa is controversial in vedic astrology, otherwise they would have only one navamsa but not four. This may also be that they will have more navamsa variations in the future.
Through the centuries there has been only one navamsa calculation which begins with zero Aries and follows through the zodiac in 12 sign order. I have used Jyotish software since the days of DOS (pre Windows from the 1980s), and I have never seen anything in the various software programs except the standard navamsa calculation.

Along comes the 21st century and maverick astrologers such as Sanjay Rath who want to open the astrological field to innovative ideas and research. K.N. Rao has also introduced various techniques that astrologers haven't used before. Anyone who wants to criticize India's astrology should first get a grasp of its history and development before jumping to conclusions with the aim of tearing down a centuries old structure.

I'm sorry, Linchi. I have been one of your main supporters, but now that I see where you are coming from, I have lost all respect and interest in your research, and even question your results. Yes, I do question the logic of your thought processes. You are jumping in with criticisms before even studying India's astrology and the topic of contemporary western harmonics which were first popularized by John Addey in the last century. You don't seem to understand that your way is not the only way to work with the zodiac circle.

I didn't want to write this post, but it's important that India's navamsa is placed in historical perspective for those who read this forum topic.

(For information, I have not read Linchi's posts which Martin censored. I sensed the negative energy and didn't want to be involved in that.)
https://archive.org/details/@cemalcicek

16
Linchi wrote:
Astrology is a science not a religion.
We must control every assertion and every rule. If we are not allowed to control even not to speak our opinions, then it is a religion.
India's navamsa chart has been one of my primary research areas of study for 45 years. It has worked to perfection across many studies. There are also many published reports by astrologers demonstrating how the navamsa has been applied. Here and there on Skyscript I have posts that include the navamsa such as the comparison of the charts of royals.

But there are no studies (for example) of 100 charts of cancer patients using the navamsa. The zodiac and 12 signs are central in applying the navamsa. This is why the navamsa (9th harmonic) cannot be compared to another technique which uses only the mathematical relationship of planets in higher harmonics apart from the zodiac.
http://www.snowcrest.net/sunrise/LostZodiac.htm

17
Therese Hamilton wrote:Linchi wrote:
Astrology is a science not a religion.
We must control every assertion and every rule. If we are not allowed to control even not to speak our opinions, then it is a religion.
India's navamsa chart has been one of my primary research areas of study for 45 years. It has worked to perfection across many studies. There are also many published reports by astrologers demonstrating how the navamsa has been applied. Here and there on Skyscript I have posts that include the navamsa such as the comparison of the charts of royals.
I also wrote earlier that if you want to check something, then you need the appropriate equipment that can perform the check. If you don't have the appropriate equipment, then you can check or research for a thousand years. It's no use at all. It was just a waste of time. I am sorry for you that you wasted your time, it is frustrating, I understand that and I feel for you.
But there are no studies (for example) of 100 charts of cancer patients using the navamsa.
I have over 350 cancer examples in my work not 100. I do not need navamsa.
The zodiac and 12 signs are central in applying the navamsa. This is why the navamsa (9th harmonic) cannot be compared to another technique which uses only the mathematical relationship of planets in higher harmonics apart from the zodiac.
You need to have a competence to judge about my system.
From now on I will ignore your posts and not reply to them. Please don't bother.
https://archive.org/details/@cemalcicek

18
the way i see it we are all here to learn from one another..no one knows everything and we need to check our egos at the door...

i think it is fair to challenge anything to do with astrology.. we are working with a symbolic art form.. it is not all to be taken literally or for some to think their form of 'art' is superior to others.. it is just 'different'.. that is my philosophy here....

first off i'd like to address an aspect of this conversation that is being discussed, but from my own perspective... the navamsa chart is arrived at a few different ways in indian astrology - thus one can use different ideas to arrive at 'different' navamsa charts.. it is not purely a 9th harmonic chart... it seems like this is an important point to make based on the level of understanding some do or don't have about this here.. the standard navamsa chart as given in solar fire software is indeed a 9th harmonic chart, but as linchi points out - one can arrive at different navamsa charts depending on different choices of starting points and etc. etc.. this little confusion, might be a big confusion for those who haven't looked into this more closely...

for me it really breaks down to the difference between what these numbers 2 and 3 imply on a symbolic level.... 2 series harmonics are going to be different then 3 series harmonics... what is the nature of the difference?? this is something we can each look into and come to our own individual conclusions on..

i do find linchis work fascinating, but i am unable to confirm or verify his conclusions as i don't have the software to confirm or deny it! but i do believe the principle of manifestation on the material or physical level and its association with the 2 series harmonics important... as someone who was exposed to ebertin and the hamburg school of astrology from an early age, working with the 90 degree wheel, midpoints and etc, makes a huge amount of sense to me.. it seems linchi with the aid of technology has advanced the basic ideas that were developed out of the work of these german astrologers - alfred witte and etc... so, i do want to congratulate linchi for his unique approach and insights that he offers skyscript here.. if linchi opts to not explore of understand more deeply the basis from other aspects of indian astrology, that is up to him.. we can't all know everything...

atlantean - james.. thanks for your reply... i don't have those software programs... the 40 degree aspect and its extensions was first revealed to me in a book back in the 70's r 80s - before all this astro software took off as the novile series aspects... the book was called "" a handbook for the humanistic astrologer'' by michael r meyer - 1974.... i suppose with the advent of greater use of technology and astro software someone came along and gave these aspects a different name...

my first reading on harmonics was john addey and david hamblin.. i see david has a new book out called ''harmonics in practice''.... my understanding of the difference between the 2 series and 3 series harmonics is that one is more directly related to events - the 2 series, whereas the 3 series is more on an inner level of harmony that one might discover that isn't apparent on the outer or physical or material level aspect of our world... i think these religious connotations - the holy trinity, or the concept of how the navamsa chart is considered so important in indian astrology has to do with some deeper resonance that not everyone living in the material world is receptive to perhaps.. i don't actually know and it is just speculation on my part... bottom line the different harmonics represent different realities so to speak, one more obvious and the other not so obvious..

of course encouraging people to be open mind is tricky if some are treating their science as a religion and vice versa... either we remain open minded to discovery, or we keep the door closed on alternative ways of perceiving our reality... the choice is always ours to make... i really don't look at this as an ''either or'' proposition either...

this clash of ideology reminds me of the saturn- uranus square which will come exact in another month or so for the last time! i see so much division connected most obviously to the response people have taken towards covid.. it would be nice if we could not replicate that here in the astrology and try to step outside of ourselves for a moment...

peace and goodwill to you all!

19
Linchi wrote:
I am sorry for you that you wasted your time, it is frustrating, I understand that and I feel for you.
There is no waste of time except in Linchi's perspective. But is sarcasm so necessary? Astrology is so vast that we can't decide something is wrong simply because we haven't explored it. There is room for various perspectives, and there are reasons that each perspective exists.

Perhaps the problem with Indian astrology is the term 'harmonics'. Varga charts are simply degree, minute and second divisions of the zodiac circle, and in fact they are labeled, D2, D3, D9, etc. From Mesopotamian times the zodiac has been broken into smaller segments such as the 12-fold dwad divisions.

Problem solved!! The navamsa and other varga charts aren't harmonics in the mathematical sense. They're simply divisions of the ecliptic/zodiac. I don't think they were ever called harmonics until John Addey's work became well known.

I am laughing!! Of course that is the problem. Varga charts are not harmonics! They are simply 'subtle divisions' as they are commonly termed. India never claimed these divisions were harmonics of any kind.
Last edited by Therese Hamilton on Sat Nov 06, 2021 3:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
http://www.snowcrest.net/sunrise/LostZodiac.htm

20
James wrote:
For me it really breaks down to the difference between what these numbers 2 and 3 imply on a symbolic level.... 2 series harmonics are going to be different then 3 series harmonics... what is the nature of the difference?? this is something we can each look into and come to our own individual conclusions on.
This is something that John Addy and David Hamblin have studied and discussed in their work. But this principle doesn't really apply to India's navamsa chart, for example, because all of India's astrology has emphasized concrete events and circumstances. I think in trying to compare the navamsa with any harmonic as understood by Linchi, we're simply speaking two completely different languages. Harmonics are a mathematical construct, and India's varga charts are simply divisions of the ecliptic reconstructed to form charts using the familiar planets and signs of the zodiac. There are no varga charts apart from the signs of the zodiac.

As for John Addey and David Hamblin, that is another area of study or controversy because they both refer to their work as harmonics. This is basically a problem for western astrologers. Unfortunately some software programs have started to refer to Indian varga charts as harmonics.
Last edited by Therese Hamilton on Sat Nov 06, 2021 1:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
http://www.snowcrest.net/sunrise/LostZodiac.htm

21
One of the major difference between Micro astrology vs Astrology is in terms of time analysis by dividing 2 factors (planets or Horizon and Meridian) and not in terms of planetary dignities or rasi.
In Indian astrology, a placement in a zodiac sign might be enough to predict an event by its relationship to the whole chart or to one of the 108 navamsas (3 degrees and 20 minutes) in a specific Constellation.

The way I see Linchi using micro astrology is closer to what is called 'vernier scale' than 'time scale'.
Time scale is defined by the convention of days, hours, minutes and seconds.
The Harmonics are closer to the 'vernier scale' but translated in clock time to be understandable.
It is named after Pierre Vernier and is a visual aid to take an accurate measurement reading between two graduation markings on a linear scale by using mechanical interpolation, thereby increasing resolution and reducing measurement uncertainty by using vernier acuity to reduce human estimation error. It was popularised by the French astronomer Jérôme Lalande (1732–1807) through his Traité d'astronomie (2 vols) (1764).
In some languages, the vernier scale is called a nonius (see here the relationship with number 9) after Portuguese mathematician, cosmographer Pedro Nunes (Latin Petrus Nonius, 1502–1578). In English, this term was used until the end of the 18th century. Nonius now refers to an earlier instrument that Nunes developed.

In 2020, scientists have measured the shortest unit of time ever: the time it takes a light particle to cross a hydrogen molecule.
That time, for the record, is 247 zeptoseconds. A zeptosecond is a trillionth of a billionth of a second, or a decimal point followed by 20 zeroes and a 1. That opens up the door to be able to measure an event with a specific Harmonic.
Saibal Ghosh explains that "Micro astrology basic for all contemporary events it is quite possible to know the nature of event of any particular moment with several co-ordinates known as time vernier scale."
In micro astrology a moment is measured by different kinds of time vernier scales, which are very unusual than clock time measuring system. We measure time by clock, micro astrology measure nature of events by different time vernier scales.

The magic of Uranian astrology was that by observations Alfred Witte was able to say for example that AS/SA, MC/SA or NO/SA meant 'separation from the place or others', or saying 'Goodbye'. And if you watch carefully when you say goodbye to someone, you will find a correlation between these pairs and one of your natal placement in relationship to the 4 cardinal points (90 degrees) or 8 or 16.

This being said, I see the work of Linchi as an introduction to the core of things and the beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Do not feel threatened Linchi if we criticize you sometimes. Open up your heart and welcome the students of astrology that we all are. And keep up the great work.

Blessings,
Ouranos

"If God has allowed human beings to take stock of their life before their death in the form of a succession of powerful memories, it is above all to give them their correct proportions in the universe, it is to demonstrate that the essential of their life is contained in a fraction of a second." (Nelly Arcand)
Last edited by Ouranos on Sat Nov 06, 2021 1:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Blessings!

22
therese,

one area i have a direct relationship with is music... i could simplify it as melody, harmony and rhythm.... when we look at music we can see how different cultures emphasize different aspects of music, but they all share a connection to one another as well as generally having these 3 aspects of music - melody, harmony and rhythm... obviously indian music is different then western music, but the idea of harmonics is part ( not all ) the basis for the varga charts used in indian astrology.. if you see this differently - fill your boots.. cheers...

23
James,

And I thought I was having an Aha!! moment! But what is important, I think, is to recognize that there is a critical difference in the fundamental premise of Linchi's concept of harmonics and the 'subtle divisions' of India's varga charts. They are basically separate universes. Our failure to recognize this has led to misunderstandings, defensive reactions (even insults) and unnecessary blame and conflicts.

There may be harmonic overtones to India's varga charts, but that is a completely different understanding of harmonics than the basis of Linchi's methods. Linchi's '9th harmonic' has nothing in common with India's navamsa chart. (And, of course perceiving the navamsa as a 'suble division' of the zodiac means that there can be an many navamsa charts as astrologers wish to invent.) But it is wrong to say that Linchi's 9th harmonic negates the utility and truth of India's navamsa chart. They are completely different entities.
Last edited by Therese Hamilton on Sat Nov 06, 2021 6:33 am, edited 2 times in total.
http://www.snowcrest.net/sunrise/LostZodiac.htm