astralwanderer wrote:Hi there - Jean Cremer's freeware program now includes a function for working with Phaethon. If you would like to explore this interesting hypothetical body, you can download the software from Jean's site at www.jcremers.com.

Phaethon Ephemeris

I have been able to program an ephemeris and chart wheel function for Phaethon, the hypothetical body described by Eric Morse and Bernard Fitzwalter in Dark Stars. The script calculates a daily, monthly or annual Ephemeris for Phaethon, starting from the current date. This setting can be altered to the user's choice. Two charts can be calculated, a chart for the current day, or a natal chart from the main Planetdance window. The following screenshots show the functions.

Phaethon Ephemeris

Phaethon Wheel with Current Position of Phaethon

Phaethon Wheel with Natal Position of Phaethon

For further information on Planetdance, please see the main Skyscript thread.

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9913

Many thanks for your interest. Ed

That is stunningly amazing. I have the constant frustration of having to look up Phaethon in a separate little ephemeris, and even then it is only given for the first of the month, so I tend to mark its mid month position in the margin of my paper ephemeris, and sometimes even its quarter month position. I have sometimes written out its roughly calculated positions for each day for a month, when it is moving at its normal speed of approximately 12 degrees per month, but this gets difficult when it is heading into or away from a station.

I am constantly frustrated that Phaethon isn't automatically put into charts, as I have to look it up in a book for each chart, and then mentally remember it, as there is no way to record it when you are 9.999% of the time looking at charts online as opposed to paper versions.

I get so frustrated with ephemerides, my best compromise is one that doesn't waste space on asteroids or Ceres but includes Chiron and the Mean Node's positions for once a month only. My ideal ephemeris would have daily positions for Chiron, the Mean Moon's Node, IsisTranspluto and Phaethon, and not waste my time with asteroids or Ceres. I am curious about Sedna and it would be nice to have it in an ephemeris, but I am not ready to use it all the time yet, and it moves very slowly, so maybe just have that once a month. I suppose IsisTranspluto moves so slowly that giving its position only once a month would make more sense. But only showing Chiron and the Mean Node once a month is a constant source of frustration, as is having to look up Phaethon separately and even then only having its position once a month.

Hi Fleur - thanks for your comment. I'm really pleased we managed to get this out in Planetdance. The positions are generally within a few minutes of arc of the Dark Stars printed ephemeris. I will keep working on the algorithm to try and get it to match the printed longitudes. It's nice to be able to see Phaethon's position in the chart too. If you do download Planetdance, you will find the routine in the main Horoscope menu under Various. There's a lot of interesting features in the programme. I can recommend it. I'm continuing to develop new scripts with Jean so the program is regularly updated. At the moment I don't think Transpluto is included but I'll see if it's possible to put it in as it is in the Swiss Ephemeris calculations.

By the way, it is possible to incorporate Sedna into Planetdance through the Options menu.

All the best. Ed

Astrolog supports Transpluto and other less common or hypothetical bodies. Here are a few examples:

Vulcan (using the L.H. Weston ephemeris) and Uranians: These are default objects in Astrolog, and can be selected in the UI.

Isis-Transpluto: This isn't a default object in Astrolog, but Astrolog can be configured to display it using command switches, by replacing some unused object. The orbital elements for Isis-Transpluto and other hypothetical bodies are in the Swiss Ephemeris seorbel.txt file that comes with the program, so it's just a matter of telling Astrolog to use it. Display Transpluto with the switches: "-Ye Cup 9 _R Cup"

Eris and Sedna: These aren't default objects in Astrolog either, but Astrolog can be configured to display them. As real physical bodies, their positions are stored in external ephemeris files. To display Eris, download ftp://ftp.astro.com/pub/swisseph/ephe/a ... 136199.se1 and place it in your ephemeris files directory, and then do "-Yeb Cup 136199 _R Cup" to show it. To display Sedna, download ftp://ftp.astro.com/pub/swisseph/ephe/ast90/se90377.se1 and place it in your ephemeris files directory, and then do "-Yeb Cup 90377 _R Cup" to show it.

Phaeton: This is harder, but can still be done. Phaeton is NOT in the latest Swiss Ephemeris seorbel.txt file. However, if one understands orbital elements and can determine them for Phaeton to a reasonable degree of accuracy based on its printed ephemeris, then those numbers can be added to seorbel.txt, and Astrolog can be told to use them. If somebody does determine quality orbital elements for Phaeton, then we could propose adding it to seorbel.txt in future versions of Swiss Ephemeris, so everybody can access it.

Cruiser1 wrote:Astrolog supports Transpluto and other less common or hypothetical bodies. Here are a few examples:

Vulcan (using the L.H. Weston ephemeris) and Uranians: These are default objects in Astrolog, and can be selected in the UI.

Isis-Transpluto: This isn't a default object in Astrolog, but Astrolog can be configured to display it using command switches, by replacing some unused object. The orbital elements for Isis-Transpluto and other hypothetical bodies are in the Swiss Ephemeris seorbel.txt file that comes with the program, so it's just a matter of telling Astrolog to use it. Display Transpluto with the switches: "-Ye Cup 9 _R Cup"

Eris and Sedna: These aren't default objects in Astrolog either, but Astrolog can be configured to display them. As real physical bodies, their positions are stored in external ephemeris files. To display Eris, download ftp://ftp.astro.com/pub/swisseph/ephe/a ... 136199.se1 and place it in your ephemeris files directory, and then do "-Yeb Cup 136199 _R Cup" to show it. To display Sedna, download ftp://ftp.astro.com/pub/swisseph/ephe/ast90/se90377.se1 and place it in your ephemeris files directory, and then do "-Yeb Cup 90377 _R Cup" to show it.

Phaeton: This is harder, but can still be done. Phaeton is NOT in the latest Swiss Ephemeris seorbel.txt file. However, if one understands orbital elements and can determine them for Phaeton to a reasonable degree of accuracy based on its printed ephemeris, then those numbers can be added to seorbel.txt, and Astrolog can be told to use them. If somebody does determine quality orbital elements for Phaeton, then we could propose adding it to seorbel.txt in future versions of Swiss Ephemeris, so everybody can access it.

Thanks, I will look at that.

Hi there - I have done a lot of work on creating a reasonable set of orbital elements for the hypothetical Phaethon. The work was done as part of a couple of attempts to create a program in Basic that would produce an ephemeris. The most recent attempt is the Phaethon Ephemeris module in Planetdance.

I created a dat file for Solar Fire, using the following orbital elements. This works by adding Phaethon as a user created point in Solar Fire Charts and routines.

"***Name Abbr Symbol", "Phaethon", "PH", "P"
"BaseYr/Epoch/Geo/Prec.", 19000101.0, 0, 0, 0
"Semimajor Axis", 2.7377, 0, 0, 0
"Eccentricity", 0.00185, 0, 0, 0
"Inclination (Degs)", 5.4756, 0, 0, 0
"Perihelion (Degs)", 68.576, 0, 0, 0
"Node (Degs)", 8.4955, 0, 0, 0
"Mean Anomaly (Degs)", 170.18, 0, 0, 0

The full set of orbital elements used in the PD script is as follows:

Longitude of Phaethon at Epoch 19000101 midnight = 170.18 degrees
Duration of Phaethon's orbit = 4.5301 years
Phaethon's semi-major axis = 2.7377
Duration of Earth's orbit = 1.00004 years
Longitude of Earth at Epoch 19000101 midnight = 102.23
Inclination of Phaethon's orbital plane = 5.4756
Longitude of Phaethon's Ascending Node at Epoch = 8.4955 degrees
Eccentricity of Earth's orbit = 0.0169
Eccentricity of Phaethon's orbit = 0.00185
Longitude of Earth's Perihelion = 102.775 degrees
Longitude of Phaethon's Perihelion = 68.576 degrees
Julian Date at Epoch = 2415020.5

This script reproduces the printed ephemeris produced by Eric and Bernard to a fairly high degree of accuracy (within 15-30 minutes of arc). I don't think the orbital elements are quite right, but I got the original data from Bernard himself.

You are welcome to use these to try and create a better software function.

If you want the full BASIC script let me know.

I used the algorithm from Duffett-Smith's book to create the program. The calculation is based on the long form of the algorithm to determine the position of planets described in Peter Duffett-Smith's book Practical Astronomy With Your Calculator (# 54, pp. 103-110).

Best wishes. Ed

astralwanderer wrote:Hi there - I have done a lot of work on creating a reasonable set of orbital elements for the hypothetical Phaethon. If you want the full BASIC script let me know.

Thank you for your work with Phaethon, and for providing its orbital elements. Yes, I would be interesting in seeing the full BASIC script.

As a test case, I assume that the specific positions listed above match what Solar Fire produces with the custom addition? For example, today on March 7th 2018 at 0:00 UTC Phaethon is at 8Sco15'24" (geocentric, tropical).

Also I assume that "Longitude of Phaethon at Epoch 19000101 midnight = 170.18 degrees" means that the zodiac position of Phaethon on 1/01/1900 at 0:00 UTC is 20Vir10'48" (heliocentric, tropical)?

It is only a few minutes' difference from the official ephemeris, so the tiny discrepancy wouldn't matter, but my Phaethon ephemeris gives Phaethon stationary to retrograde on 4th March 2018 at 8 degrees Scorpio 10 minutes, and on 1st April 2018 at 5 degrees Scorpio 40 minutes retrograde.

This miniscule discrepancy could be to do with Phaethon having just stationed.

Before I was given the post-2003 extended Phaethon ephemeris, by Eric Morse, I used to roughly get its position because it is approximately in the same place on the same date every 77 years, which varies up to about one degree. I am not a mathematician, so have no explanation for this pattern. The original book doesn't give the orbital period, but it looks like very approximately 4.5 years; it lies between Mars and Jupiter in the asteroid belt. In one of the appendixes at the back of the book, Eric writes that the mean radius of orbit for Phaethon is 2.7378, compared with Ceres which is 2.8, the approximate figure for the asteroid belt. Curiously, he writes that the mean radius of orbit for IsisTranspluto could be very close to 77.2 - I am not sure what he means here, my understanding of the science isn't good enough.

Hi there - thanks for your interest in Phaethon. It would be very helpful to have this hypothetical object coded into the Swiss Ephemeris. I hope that the following data will be of help to identifying a definitive set of orbital characteristics for Phaethon.

There are three sets of calculations. The first column is from the printed ephemeris in Dark Stars; the second is from Planetdance; the third is from Solar Fire User Defined Points using the parameters I have given above (see previous post); the fourth column is from my original BASIC program.

All dates are calculated for 00:00 GMT.

1.1.1900 11 LI 31, 11 LI 31, 11 LI 16, 11 LI 34
1.1.1901 17 SG 31, 17 SG 54, 17 SG 30, 17 SG 17
1.1.1902 16 AQ 20, 16 AQ 57, 16 AQ 35, 16 AQ 40
1.1.1903 28 AR 07, 28 AR 01, 28 AR 39, 28 AR 12
1.1.1904 22 LE 13 R, 21 LE 42 R, 22 LE 01 R, 22 LE 40 R
1.1.1905 14 SC 50, 15 SC 01, 14 SC 40, 14 SC 32
1.1.1906 14 CP 55, 15 CP 26, 15 CP 01, 14 CP 59
1.1.1907 16 PI 34, 17 PI 01, 16 PI 57, 16 PI 48
1.1.1908 18 GE 06 R, 17 GE 21 R, 18 GE 27 R, 18 GE 28 R
1.1.1909 06 LI 40, 06 LI 37, 06 LI 23, 06 LI 46

1.1.2000 06 SC 02, 06 SC 00, 05 SC 40, 05 SC 37

16.3.2018 Unknown, 07 SC 49 R, 07 SC 33 R, 08 SC 26 R

My original basic code follows:

# the following program calculates phaethons's position using the extended duffett-smith method, practical astronomy with your calculator, 3rd ed., p. 103-110, #54
# phaethon recovered - 6 Dec 2014, 22:12, exeter, using simplified method
# p. 105, Table 7, is in heliocentric longitude - e
# D=days since epoch (1/1/1900)
# e=170.225=heliocentric longitude at epoch - phaethon
# Tp=4.5301=period in tropical years - phaethon
# pp=68.576=longitude of perihelion
# ec=0.0001=eccentricity of phaethon's orbit
# a=2.7378=semi-major axis - phaethon
# np=5.4756=longitude in degrees of phaethon's ascending node
# ip=8.4955=phaethon's inclination in degrees
# tE=1.00004=period in tropical years - Earth
# E=100.15=heliocentric longitude at epoch - Earth
# eE=0.0167=earth's eccentricity
# pE=102.7684=earth's perihelion
# define eleven variables - 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10
# X[0]=e=170.225 - heliocentric longitude of phaethon at epoch (alt.=170.275)
# X[1]=tp=4.5301 -period in tropical years - phaethon [=(360/0.217577)/365.2422]
# X[2]=tE=1.00004=period in tropical years - Earth
# X[3]=E=100.15=heliocentric longitude at epoch - Earth
# X[4]=a=2.7378=phaethon's semi-major axis
# X[5]=pp=68.576=phaethon's longitude of perihelion
# X[6]=ec=0.0001=eccentricity of phaethon's orbit (speculative value as not defined by eric morse) (alt=0.00189, 0.00139 - more elliptical orbits didn't improve fit with printed ephemeris - 0.0001 is almost circular - eccentricity actually doesn't seem to make too much difference??)
# X[7]=pE=102.7684=earth's perihelion in longitude
# X[8]=eE=0.0167=earth's eccentricity
# X[9]=np=5.4756=longitude in degrees of phaethon's ascending node
# X[10]=ip=8.4955=phaethon's inclination to ecliptic plane
dim X(11)
X = {170.225, 4.5301, 1.00004, 100.15, 2.7378, 68.576, 0.00139, 102.7684, 0.0167, 5.4756, 8.4955}
e=X[0]
tp=X[1]
tE=X[2]
E=X[3]
a=X[4]
pp=X[5]
eP=X[6]
pE=X[7]
eE=X[8]
np=X[9]
ip=X[10]
print "phaethons's geocentric position in zodiacal long. every 5 days since epoch 1/1/1900"
print "---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------"
print ""
print "Helio. longitude=" +e
print "Eccentricity="+eP
print ""
# creates loop for calculating phaethon's position every x days
# for 1.1.2000 D=36524, decade=3655
# for retrograde calcs, d must remain 0 or edit code in D_chk so that D=36524
D=0
while D <3655>= -760
# calculate variable Np, being distance travelled since epoch
Np=360/365.2422*D/tp
# adjust if Np<0
ch=Np
if ch<0>=360
if ch>=360 then gosub check_360
# convert ch variable back to Np
Np=ch
# calculate mean anomaly using variable Mp
Mp=Np+e-pp
ch=Mp
if ch<0>=360 then gosub check_360
Mp=ch
# final calculation of phaethon's heliocentric longitude at D
lp=Np+360/pi*eP*sin(radians(Mp))+e
ch=lp
if ch<0>=360 then gosub check_360
lp=ch
# find true anomaly
Vp=lp-pp
# calculate ratio of semi-major axis to earth's orbit
rp=(a*(1-eP*eP))/(1+eP*cos(radians(Vp)))
# calculate the NE, being the distance earth has travelled since epoch
NE=360/365.2422*D/tE
ch=NE
if ch<0>=360 then gosub check_360
NE=ch
# calculate Earth's mean anomaly using variable ME
ME=NE+E-pE
# final calculation of Earth's heliocentric longitude at D
lE=NE+360/pi*eE*sin(radians(ME))+E
ch=lE
if ch<0>=360 then gosub check_360
lE=ch
# calculate earth's true anomaly
VE=lE-pE
# calculate ratio of semi-major axis
rE=(1-eE*eE)/(1+eE*cos(radians(VE)))
# find phaethon's heliocentric latitude, variable lP
lP=(asin((sin(radians(lp-np)))*sin(radians(ip))))
y=sin(radians(lp-np))*(cos(radians(ip)))
x=cos(radians(lp-np))
Z=degrees(atan(y/x))
# correct for quadrant error - atan
if x<0>0 then Z=Z+360
ch=Z
if ch<0>=360 then gosub check_360
Z=ch
# add longitude of ascending node - should be close to longitude value of lp
ll=Z+np
ch=ll
if ch<0>=360 then gosub check_360
ll=ch
rr=rp*cos(radians(lP))
# calculate phaethon's geo longitude
P=degrees(atan(rE*(sin(radians(ll-lE)))/(rr-rE*(cos(radians(ll-lE))))))+ll
ch=P
if ch<0>=360 then gosub check_360
P=ch
# express in zodiacal longitude
D1=int(P)-(int(int(P)/30)*30)
S1=int(int(P)/30+1)
M1=int((P-int(P))*60)
gosub sign_text
# gosub retro_chk
# D=D-5
j=2415020.5+D
# add 0.5 for half-day, to noon on JD
j=j+0.5
# find integer part
i=int(j)
#find fractional part
f=j-int(j)
if i<2299160 then b=i: goto cont
A=int((i-1867216.25)/36524.25)
b=i+1+A-int(A/4)
cont:
c=b+1524
d=int((c-122.10)/365.25)
e1=int(365.25*d)
g=int((c-e1)/30.6001)
# day of month
Da=c-e1+f-int(30.6001*g)
# if Da<2 then print "OK": goto calcmonth
# else
# print "skip": goto nextpos
# calculate month
# calcmonth:
if g<13>13.5 then m=g-13
# calculate year
if m>2.5 then yr=d-4716
if m<2.5 then yr=d-4715
gosub month_text
gosub D_chk
gosub retro_chk
# gosub D_chk
print ""+Da +" " +m$ +" " +yr +", "+D1 +" " +S1$ +" " +M1 +" " +R1$
# nextpos:
D=D+1
end while
# subroutine that adjusts if variable is less than 0 degrees
check_0:
while ch<0>=360
ch=ch-360
end while
return
# routine that sets up variable last so that retrograde motion can be checked
# if not calculating from 1/1/1900, then D=0 must be edited to match opening line of programme - D=?
D_chk:
if D=0 then last=P
return
# routine that checks for retrograde motion
retro_chk:
if P-last <0>= 0.0075 then R1$=""
if P-last <0> -0.0075 then R1$="S"
end if
# takes P for present day and makes it into variable last so that retro motion can be checked against recalculated P for D+1
last=P
return
# subroutine that converts integer value of sign to text value
sign_text:
if S1=1 then S1$="AR"
if S1=2 then S1$="TA"
if S1=3 then S1$="GE"
if S1=4 then S1$="CN"
if S1=5 then S1$="LE"
if S1=6 then S1$="VI"
if S1=7 then S1$="LI"
if S1=8 then S1$="SC"
if S1=9 then S1$="SG"
if S1=10 then S1$="CP"
if S1=11 then S1$="AQ"
if S1=12 then S1$="PI"
return
# subroutine that converts integer value of month to text value
month_text:
if m=1 then m$="Jan"
if m=2 then m$="Feb"
if m=3 then m$="Mar"
if m=4 then m$="Apr"
if m=5 then m$="May"
if m=6 then m$="Jun"
if m=7 then m$="Jul"
if m=8 then m$="Aug"
if m=9 then m$="Sep"
if m=10 then m$="Oct"
if m=11 then m$="Nov"
if m=12 then m$="Dec"
return

As far as I can tell I interpreted Duffett-Smith's algorithm correctly to produce the code. However, I may have made some mistakes that lead to the discrepancy between my position and the Dark Stars ephemeris position.

I adapted this code to produce the script in Astrobasic for Planetdance.

Best wishes. Ed

I just noticed that Princess Kate has IsisTranspluto exactly conjunct her Ascendant. She has IsisTranspluto at 18 degrees Leo 58 minutes, and Ascendant 19 degrees Leo 45 minutes. IsisTranspluto conjunct chart angles is very common in royalty. Prince Charles has it too.

https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Ca ... _Cambridge

As some of you may remember, I previously talked about certain observations I made regarding the role that Transpluto (a.k.a. Bacchus and Isis) seems to play in earthquake charts, both on this forum and on my blog:

https://michaelsternbach.wordpress.com/ ... revisited/

To these, I now add as a most recent example the chart of the devastating quake that hit Haiti earlier this month.



This one shows once again the combined influence of Mars and Bacchus, said to be causing earthquakes by John Hawkins in his classical book Transpluto or Should We Call Him Bacchus the Ruler of Taurus, as the two are in a conjunction (along with Mercury) in the rising sign Virgo.

Cool, this old thread is getting attention again! Here are a few updates to various points:

Fleur wrote:I see them in the same way as the Moons of Mars, Phobos and Demos, whose meaning is for me part of Mars anyway and I can't think of anyone trying to study them separately from Mars? Are there ephemerides for Phobos and Demos? Has anyone ever made a study of them? Would you study the Moons of Jupiter separately from Jupiter itself? Are there even ephemerides for them?

Planetary Moons: Yes, there are now ephemerides for Mars' moons Phobos and Deimos. The Swiss Ephemeris has made ephemeris files available for 27 of the most major planetary moons, so programs like Astrolog can display them. Moons aren't really treated separately from the planets they orbit, but rather they indicate which parts of the planet receives emphasis, and how that emphasis takes place. For details, see the thread http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11031, and for a more detailed page on planetary moon meanings and how to use them in astrology see: http://www.astrolog.org/astrolog/astmoon.htm

Eris and Sedna: The eight Uranian bodies were conceived of before Eris, Sedna, and any other object beyond Neptune were discovered. Hamburg school astrologers Alfred Witte and Friedrich Sieggrün had the right idea that there are several bodies beyond Pluto, although their eight proposed Uranian bodies don't physically exist. Now that a number of bodies beyond Neptune have been physically discovered, that may reduce the usage of Uranians. For example, Eris is 98% of Pluto’s diameter, 27% denser, and unlike Pluto is fully outside Neptune's orbit, so there are reasons to consider Eris at least as if not more astrologically significant than Pluto!

Asteroids: Ceres is notable because it's the largest asteroid, and contains nearly 1/3 the mass of the entire asteroid belt! Ceres is the only asteroid massive enough to be spherical like a planet, so it's the only asteroid that's also a Dwarf planet. Note that contemporary astronomy says that the asteroid belt isn't the remnant of any old planet or other body, but rather Jupiter's enormous mass prevented the primordial disk from ever forming a planet there in the first place. Interestingly, there is a physical Phaeton. Asteroid "3200 Phaeton" orbits closer to the Sun than any other named asteroid, so I'd consider it astrologically significant.

Etheric Planets: With the above, I'm not trying to claim that Phaeton and the Uranians don't exist! As an Esoteric Astrologer, I firmly believe in the existence of many "etheric planets" that only exist on astral or higher planes. (Such as Vulcan inside Mercury's orbit.) However, "proving" these etheric planets exist and how they orbit is of course impossible (at least scientifically) until we develop something like "quantum glasses" that can see into the spirit world and track ghosts, fairies, and such!

Astrolog: As an update to a post earlier in this thread, Astrolog now supports Eris and Sedna directly (and the other "Seven Dwarfs" or the seven largest bodies beyond Pluto) and comes with ephemeris files for them, so one can just point and click to show them. Astrolog also now has an "Object Customization" dialog to make other objects easy to add. To show Isis-Transpluto in Astrolog, just define an object as "h9" (similar to what you type in astro.com). Similarly, to show physical asteroid "3200 Phaeton" in Astrolog, download its ephemeris file "se03200s.se1", then define an object as "3200" (again similar to astro.com's additional objects field).

Cruiser1 wrote:Cool, this old thread is getting attention again!

Cool you chimed in, Walter!

Here are a few updates to various points:

Fleur wrote:I see them in the same way as the Moons of Mars, Phobos and Demos, whose meaning is for me part of Mars anyway and I can't think of anyone trying to study them separately from Mars? Are there ephemerides for Phobos and Demos? Has anyone ever made a study of them? Would you study the Moons of Jupiter separately from Jupiter itself? Are there even ephemerides for them?

Planetary Moons: Yes, there are now ephemerides for Mars' moons Phobos and Deimos. The Swiss Ephemeris has made ephemeris files available for 27 of the most major planetary moons, so programs like Astrolog can display them. Moons aren't really treated separately from the planets they orbit, but rather they indicate which parts of the planet receives emphasis, and how that emphasis takes place. For details, see the thread http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11031, and for a more detailed page on planetary moon meanings and how to use them in astrology see: http://www.astrolog.org/astrolog/astmoon.htm

Eris and Sedna: The eight Uranian bodies were conceived of before Eris, Sedna, and any other object beyond Neptune were discovered. Hamburg school astrologers Alfred Witte and Friedrich Sieggrün had the right idea that there are several bodies beyond Pluto, although their eight proposed Uranian bodies don't physically exist. Now that a number of bodies beyond Neptune have been physically discovered, that may reduce the usage of Uranians.

It seems like Witte and Sieggrün deduced the Uranians on empirical grounds. Many moons ago, I tried to correlate them with the then-known TNOs, but to no avail. However, even though it is pretty safe to say by now that they have no physical representation, they do render interesting results in horoscope interpretation. I primarily see them as some sort of higher potentials.

Are they more or less significant than the verified TNOs? That's hard to say. To me, they are simply in a league of their own.

For example, Eris is 98% of Pluto’s diameter, 27% denser, and unlike Pluto is fully outside Neptune's orbit, so there are reasons to consider Eris at least as if not more astrologically significant than Pluto!

And yet Pluto is still the biggest TNO and, more importantly, the brightest of them all. He also stands out due to his nature as a 'double planet' - the only other planet accompanied by a moon of significant size relative to its own being the Earth!

I see the various plutoids more the way I look at asteroids and centaurs - noteworthy in their own right, but not on par with the major planets.

Asteroids: Ceres is notable because it's the largest asteroid, and contains nearly 1/3 the mass of the entire asteroid belt! Ceres is the only asteroid massive enough to be spherical like a planet, so it's the only asteroid that's also a Dwarf planet. Note that contemporary astronomy says that the asteroid belt isn't the remnant of any old planet or other body, but rather Jupiter's enormous mass prevented the primordial disk from ever forming a planet there in the first place. Interestingly, there is a physical Phaeton. Asteroid "3200 Phaeton" orbits closer to the Sun than any other named asteroid, so I'd consider it astrologically significant.

In this context, please note the very recent discovery of asteroid 2021 PH27 that gets closer to the Sun than any previously known object.

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic ... 7&start=15

Right now, I am not sure if this body, despite its minute size, might qualify as a candidate for Vulcan, but it would be worthy of further exploration - once its orbital parameters have been established.

Etheric Planets: With the above, I'm not trying to claim that Phaeton and the Uranians don't exist! As an Esoteric Astrologer, I firmly believe in the existence of many "etheric planets" that only exist on astral or higher planes. (Such as Vulcan inside Mercury's orbit.) However, "proving" these etheric planets exist and how they orbit is of course impossible (at least scientifically) until we develop something like "quantum glasses" that can see into the spirit world and track ghosts, fairies, and such!

Astrolog: As an update to a post earlier in this thread, Astrolog now supports Eris and Sedna directly (and the other "Seven Dwarfs" or the seven largest bodies beyond Pluto) and comes with ephemeris files for them, so one can just point and click to show them. Astrolog also now has an "Object Customization" dialog to make other objects easy to add. To show Isis-Transpluto in Astrolog, just define an object as "h9" (similar to what you type in astro.com). Similarly, to show physical asteroid "3200 Phaeton" in Astrolog, download its ephemeris file "se03200s.se1", then define an object as "3200" (again similar to astro.com's additional objects field).

That's great! Even though, personally, I would like to see many more of those elusive bodies implemented in a straightforward manner and with their own proper glyphs in Astrolog 7.30!