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Euros ... contnued
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skyrack



Joined: 02 Aug 2012
Posts: 250
Location: Thailand

Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

England v Italy 2.62 3.00 3.00 (2.75 3.00 2.87)
Saturn & Mars v Sun & Venus

Some testimonies involving minor aspects are deemed unreliable by Frawley, and the following are ignored:
Moon Sun Antiscion 60 Applicative +00:28:59 - negative
Moon Mars Antiscion 90 Applicative +01:27:27 - positive
Moon Venus Antiscion 90 Applicative +02:29:32 - negative
Saturn Antiscion Pars Fortuna 60 Applicative +03:17:42 - positive

These are the considered testimonies:
Moon Saturn 180 Applicative +01:53:19 - positive
Sun Pars Fortuna 180 Applicative +01:53:22 - negative (anomaly*)

Frawley wrote:

T h e n we have an anomaly. My experience is that:
* Lord 7 to bodily opposition with Fortuna favours the underdogs.
It would seem that this should work the other way round.


There is another possible testimony. Possible because Frawley does not explicitly mention antiscia in the context of the nodes.
Frawley wrote:

The house placement of the Nodes doesn't seem significant, so for instance the
North Node on the Ascendant doesn't favour the favourites. But significators
falling on the Nodes will be helped or harmed. This is a powerful testimony. In this
context, Fortuna can be taken as belonging to the favourite: Fortuna on the North
Node helps the favourite; on the South Node it helps the underdog. Conjunctions
only, within a couple of degrees at most.


South Node Pars Fortuna Antiscion 0 Exact +00:16:41 - negative?
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Challenger007



Joined: 29 Oct 2020
Posts: 24

Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

skyrack wrote:
England v Italy 2.62 3.00 3.00 (2.75 3.00 2.87)
Saturn & Mars v Sun & Venus

Some testimonies involving minor aspects are deemed unreliable by Frawley, and the following are ignored:
Moon Sun Antiscion 60 Applicative +00:28:59 - negative
Moon Mars Antiscion 90 Applicative +01:27:27 - positive
Moon Venus Antiscion 90 Applicative +02:29:32 - negative
Saturn Antiscion Pars Fortuna 60 Applicative +03:17:42 - positive

These are the considered testimonies:
Moon Saturn 180 Applicative +01:53:19 - positive
Sun Pars Fortuna 180 Applicative +01:53:22 - negative (anomaly*)

Frawley wrote:

T h e n we have an anomaly. My experience is that:
* Lord 7 to bodily opposition with Fortuna favours the underdogs.
It would seem that this should work the other way round.


There is another possible testimony. Possible because Frawley does not explicitly mention antiscia in the context of the nodes.
Frawley wrote:

The house placement of the Nodes doesn't seem significant, so for instance the
North Node on the Ascendant doesn't favour the favourites. But significators
falling on the Nodes will be helped or harmed. This is a powerful testimony. In this
context, Fortuna can be taken as belonging to the favourite: Fortuna on the North
Node helps the favourite; on the South Node it helps the underdog. Conjunctions
only, within a couple of degrees at most.


South Node Pars Fortuna Antiscion 0 Exact +00:16:41 - negative?


And what conclusion does this lead to? I didn't quite get it. the odds of winning in whose favor?
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skyrack



Joined: 02 Aug 2012
Posts: 250
Location: Thailand

Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The betting odds are shown 1 X 2.
England favourites and shortening.

In terms of testimonies, I would not like to choose between the 2 considered testimonies.
So I guess that favours the favourites.

But if Fortuna's antiscion on the South Node is a valid testimony then Italy are the winners.

Draw your own conclusions...?
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Ouranos



Joined: 28 Mar 2020
Posts: 463

Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frawley says
"The Nodes neither cast nor receive aspects. We are concerned only with conjunction to them."
Antiscia is not a conjunction, at least that's my understanding here.
Keeping in mind that "A significator conjunct the North Node is greatly strengthened; one conjunct the South Node greatly weakened."
Here we have the Moon and this is the one who cast the Antiscion

Fortuna is the Moon's ASC symbolically, because for day chart, ASC + MO - SUN we substract the Sun from the Formula.

From the Antiscion you mention, the 2 positives seem to favor England who have Mars & Saturn
Moon Mars Antiscion 90 Applicative +01:27:27 - positive
Saturn Antiscion Pars Fortuna 60 Applicative +03:17:42 - positive

Maybe I am wrong altogether but just throwing some spices in the soup.
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Isaac Starkman



Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 163
Location: Tel Aviv, Israel

Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2021 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A quick analysis of the national charts indicate that England will be the winner:
England: 1 January 1801 00.00 Asc 7Lib06':
Secondary progressed Moon is conjunct progressed Jupiter orb 13'! also:
progressed MC 180 progressed Moon 9'
regressed Asc 180 Jupiter 8'
progressed Sun 180 Venus 11'
regressed MC conjunct III 0'
Transits:
Venus 180 Venus
Converse transit Jupiter 60 Asc orb 2'!!!
Italy: 10 June 1946 16.08.44 UT Asc 19Sco06':
Secondary progressed Moon conjunct progressed Saturn 34'
Transit Mars 90 Asc
transit Jupiter conjunct IC
In the lunar return for Rone, Saturn on Asc 180 Mars
In the converse lunar return Pluto on Desc- usually a negative indication
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Lunlumo



Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 331
Location: Germany

Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2021 4:38 pm    Post subject: Italy winning Reply with quote

Usually worth looking at:
Not the start, but the end of the match.
Problem: The match may not be over after the second half time.
But here I do think it will be.
End of the match around 21:50, British time (i.e. probable extra time included)
Then there'll be AC= SA/PL (direct midpoint) and MC=SA/NE (indirect)).
As the place is London with the greater part of people present being
English this will most probably mean that Italy will win.
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Non coerceri maximo, contineri minimo divinum est.
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Challenger007



Joined: 29 Oct 2020
Posts: 24

Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

skyrack wrote:
The betting odds are shown 1 X 2.
England favourites and shortening.

In terms of testimonies, I would not like to choose between the 2 considered testimonies.
So I guess that favours the favourites.

But if Fortuna's antiscion on the South Node is a valid testimony then Italy are the winners.

Draw your own conclusions...?


Italy won. It turns out that Fortuna's antiscion on the South Node turned out to be true.
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