Artistry in Astrology

1
Listening to a podcast witth Brian Clark

Creating a relationship with your imagination
"I recognize that right from early on that the most important thing in working with the client was creating a relationship.
“Astrological techniques, for a successful judgment, should open up the key that unlocks our portal of imagination.???.
"The techniques that speak to us are the ones that stay with us, but the reason they speak to us is that they lead us to some way of knowing that opens something up... beyond our own knowledge or an understanding."
The clients come not to share their joyful stories with you, at least they never came to me to share their joy because there was a lot of pain and suffering and sadness and I had to be open to that." (Brian Clark)

Comments: The understanding is all within us. If I say Venus square Saturn, what comes to mind?
Let me open up my imagination here...
I see a young woman with an older man.
I see someone falling in love with someone already married.
I see The Beauty & The Beast
I see a vintage piece of clothing
I see a broken vow... and on and on

Which House system?
"Well, first of all, I guess I don’t understand why there’s contention. Because if I understood that there’s a contention, I would have to ascribe to the belief that it’s factual, because if I’m going to argue which house system is better, it would have to be based on fact, now, and that’s not going to happen. So, yes, I think that we’ve gotten ourselves into a bind a bit in astrology by this idea of house system – it doesn’t matter. It’s a symbol. And if I try to, say that my system is the better system, then I’m entering into a kind of a sense of needing to sort of prove it in some factual way and I won’t be able to do that. I might be able to say that the system I’m using has been used for a long time, that the system I’m using probably has more charts created that way. I might be able to say all these things. But I don’t I think that’s right, that that this idea of debating about house systems is actually not good for our our profession. Because basically we shouldn’t be, we should be honoring the idea that we’re working with a symbolic language. And whether it’s whole sign or equal house, which of course, as we know, it has been right there through our tradition, or whether it’s a more modern placidus doesn’t matter.
Which isn’t proof. It’s validation of a meaningful experience... and when that happens they’ll start to form their own ideas and their own opinions." (Brian Clark)

Comments: What I understand here is that you use a system that is meaningful to you. Or a system that opens up your own understanding... until you find a better one. And when this happens it will come to you like a tsunami, not like eating some piece of brocoli as a 4 years old.

Timing
"We only have the eyes to see the moments that we’re studying, but it’s happening every moment. And I think that’s very, very important. What I tried to describe in that chapter of time was to, suggest how we oftentimes get caught in the linear and chronological movement of time. We have the Saturn Uranus square. So we define that moment in time. But that moment in time has vibrations in many other moments in time. So this moment in time, it’s all engaged in the chart of this moment as well. So again, I feel my words fail. But it’s the kind of involvement with time as astrologers where we are not just dealing with literal chronological time, but we’re dealing with timelessness and a sense of eternity, a sense of a cycle that has happened over and over and over again". (Brian Clark)

Comments: If you are unsure about the orb, use 360 degrees until enough clients validate the orb with you. Remember about creating a relationship? After 7 years of teaching and reading charts for people, I woke up one day and decided that 'they would give me a reading' of their own chart. I would hold the chart in front of me and looking at a Sun square Saturn, I would say: "Can you tell me about the relationship with your father?" And then, they would start explaining me what and how the square manifest. I was learning more than reading 10 astrology cookbooks.

Participating
"Is a Saturn Venus square good or bad? And I said, Yes. Thank you very much.
Well, I think what I was trying to portray there was the fact that when astrology invites us to participate, okay, we’ve got, Saturn transiting our venus, it invites us to participate in that. Yes. I don’t want to feel like there’s a heavy weight on my chest. Yes, I do not want to feel that I’m, in the wrong vocation. But if that is the way I’m feeling, then this transit is asking me to participate with that feeling in order to know that part of myself. So, we could look at it and say, yes, it’ll be over soon. But it won’t be over soon if that part of myself that has been actually in transition has never been felt or experienced, or opened up. And so it’s like I was trying to express the idea that the invitation to participate is actually the clue and the mystery of astrology." (Brian Clark)

Comments: Well said Brian!

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Brian Clark's book “Soul Symbol and Imagination, The Artistry of Astrology???,
https://www.astrologyuniversity.com/sou ... astrology/ Tony Howard interview with Brian Clark
https://www.astrosynthesis.com.au/greek ... -articles/ Brian Clark articles on Greek History and Classics Articles
Last edited by Ouranos on Sat Dec 02, 2023 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Blessings!

Re: Artistry in Astrology

6
i'd like to isolate a part of the interview in the link ouranos provided and comment on it..

"Anthony Howard 17:40
That’s a nice segue into conversation about this next quote, which is you make a really great point with this one when you say, as in any profession, the debate among practitioners about the authenticity and dependability of certain techniques persists. However, the success of any system rests with practitioner. This is a pet peeve of mine, because we tend to hold astrology to the standard that we don’t hold other professions to. I can’t count the number of times I’ve read on social media that the disagreement over how systems is an embarrassment to the profession or that it should be. And whenever I can I jump into those and just say, you know, in any profession, there are debates about which methods and techniques are best, because two doctors won’t necessarily agree on the best cancer treatment. And two lawyers might cite totally different cases as they prepare their arguments. And yet, we just don’t discount all of medicine or all of law, because how do you how do you teach your students to make decisions in these areas of contention and astrology?

Brian Clark 18:41

Well, first of all, I guess I don’t understand why there’s contention. Because if I understood that there’s a contention, I would have to ascribe to the belief that it’s factual, because if I’m going to argue which house system is better, it would have to be based on fact, now, and that’s not going to happen. So, yes, I think that we’ve gotten ourselves into a bind a bit in astrology by this idea of house system – it doesn’t matter. It’s a symbol. And if I try to, say that my system is the better system, then I’m entering into a kind of a sense of needing to sort of prove it in some factual way I and I won’t be able to do that. I might be able to say that the system I’m using has been used for a long time, that the system I’m using probably has more charts created that way. I might be able to say all these things, but I can’t say but it’s different. So I don’t I think that’s right, that that this idea of debating about house systems is actually not good for our our profession. Because basically we shouldn’t be, we should be honoring the idea that we’re working with a symbolic language. And whether it’s whole sign or equal house, which of course, as we know, it has been right there through our tradition, or whether it’s a more modern placidus doesn’t matter. "

this reminds me of all the talk on house systems that has gone on endlessly.. i love his response - ''it doesn't matter. it's a symbol''... i said something very similar in a response to jason on the kissinger thread..

here is my quote from dec 1st.. i am not sure who reads what i say, lol...

"regarding the use of sidereal or tropical - it is much the same with the myriad choices of house systems too.. one has to appreciate the relativity of it all and try to grasp what insights they are willing to find acknowledging up front the relativity of it all.."

anyone looking for a concrete reality, or a form that they can pour concrete into - is working in the wrong medium...
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here is yet another way of considering it!!

In a village there lived six blind men who had never experienced the sight of an elephant. One day, an elephant was brought to the village, and the blind men, eager to learn about this strange creature, decided to investigate.

The first blind man approached the elephant and touched its leg. "The elephant is like a pillar," he declared.

The second blind man reached out and grasped the elephant's tail. "No, the elephant is like a rope," he insisted.

The third blind man felt the elephant's trunk and exclaimed, "The elephant is like a snake!"

The fourth blind man touched the elephant's ear and announced, "The elephant is like a fan!"

The fifth blind man ran his hands along the elephant's body and proclaimed, "The elephant is like a wall!"

The sixth blind man felt the elephant's tusks and declared, "The elephant is like a spear!"

HAHAHA

Re: Artistry in Astrology

7
The debates and conflicts within the astrological community once made me feel disheartened and fearful.

I often reflect on myself, questioning whether I have harbored any animosity, malice, or jealousy towards others.

One source of joy for me is that I have finally found my true self.

After discovering myself, I sense a kind of spiritual freedom and liberation, and I am no longer afraid of others (perhaps I've found the diamond within? Tapped into some mysterious power?) :-D

I am delighted to witness discussions and sharing among others.

Just as in the operating room, where a single beam of light casts darker shadows, hence the need for shadowless lamps. :-)