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Will Friendship turn into Relationship
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astromythtarotbyjc



Joined: 29 Sep 2019
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Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:23 am    Post subject: Will Friendship turn into Relationship Reply with quote

I'm wondering if this friendshio will turn into a relationship

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Me-Taurus-Venus cj Saturn and Pluto(although not used) could mean a serious relationship?
Sunand Mercury-Semi-Sextile Venus

Him Scorpio-Mars in own house exalted-
Mars trines Uranus in retrograde
Saturn and venus sextile Mars which is positive

Moon-semi-sextile Jupiter

I'm thinking no because Mars is Scorpio, so he's busy focused on himself.

The 9th house seems to carry a lot of weight...he is currently traveling, but we communicate constantly.

Thx
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Yair Alon



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Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello, astromythtarotbyjc!

From what I see, you are making some mistakes in your analysis.

First of all, not an error per se, but you are clearly using modern planets, and I guess most of the forum users here wouldn’t.

In the same sense, you are using non-Ptolomaic aspects (semi-sextile), and I think most here would disregard that.

Finally, you say that Mars represents him (curious why you didn’t chose Pluto if you are going with the modern planets) and that it trines Uranus. It doesn’t. It trines Neptune (maybe you are making a confusion with the glyphs).

That being said, first thing you should look is for relations between the signifiers (Venus and Mars) and you barely touched those. You only mentioned they are in a sextile (that’s right), but notice this is a separating one (so indicating something in the past). So nothing too "positive" (to use your terms) for the future, here.

Always try to use the Moon in the analysis, specially in cases like this (romantic and Moon in I, clearly representing you).

Mars in its own sign can represent what you said - he is worried only about himself for now - but it can also mean he is a very sexual person (specially Mars in Scorpio) and this is what he wants now (not necessarily with you, but in general).

You failed to notice house positions in general. First of all, notice that Mars is in his XII house. Second, notice that you, Venus, is in his 3rd house - a house which is not usually associated with romantic relationships, but only with mild friendships, colleagues, chit chat.

BEST
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Tanit3333



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Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems odd to assign a friend as 7th house if you regard them as a friend currently. In any case, the 11th ruler is with the ascendant ruler anyway. Venus translates the light of Mars via sextile to Saturn and Saturn perfects the matter. Mars is cadent and so it is unlikely to be the one to initiate a relationship. He is not in the right situation to do it even though he is capable (essentially dignified but accidentally debilitated). With Saturn ruling the 11th that would make more sense for friendship. Technically, Venus is besieged and the ascendant has Algol on it, the most malevolent fixed star. In romance queries Algol often shows "losing one's head" in a figurative way, such as a crush or obsession, or irrational behavior. Moon opposes Mercury in detriment in the 7th, which could suggest strained communications. In romance charts, it can suggest fundamental differences between you such as different cultural, background, ways of thinking that can strain a relationship if either party wants their partner to have more in common with them.

If Mars is quesited though, Venus is received by exaltation but Mars approaches from Scorpio, which seems rather one-sided. When someone approaches from another planet's foreign territory, there is again a lack of common ground from them and as was mentioned, selfishness/self interest. However, Mars naturally favors Venus above other planets and is a sign of some romantic feelings for Mars. Saturn is dignified and receives the sextile with reception via Venus. Still, I think this would more likely favor friendship given that Saturn represents limitations and lords the 11th. Venus in hard aspect with Saturn often represents delays, hardships and distancing in love and can show unrequited love even if both parties might be interested. If it were to represent a relationship, it would likely come with delay and hardship but might be long lasting.

Moon in the 1st in a dual sign at an early degree often makes me think of feelings that come and go for the querent or maybe that you feel pulled in two directions, such as another romantic interest. Do your romantic feelings spring up unpredictably and go away where you lose interest? It is an odd placement for such a question.
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astromythtarotbyjc



Joined: 29 Sep 2019
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Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yair Alon wrote:
Hello, astromythtarotbyjc!

From what I see, you are making some mistakes in your analysis.

First of all, not an error per se, but you are clearly using modern planets, and I guess most of the forum users here wouldn’t.

In the same sense, you are using non-Ptolomaic aspects (semi-sextile), and I think most here would disregard that.

Finally, you say that Mars represents him (curious why you didn’t chose Pluto if you are going with the modern planets) and that it trines Uranus. It doesn’t. It trines Neptune (maybe you are making a confusion with the glyphs).

That being said, first thing you should look is for relations between the signifiers (Venus and Mars) and you barely touched those. You only mentioned they are in a sextile (that’s right), but notice this is a separating one (so indicating something in the past). So nothing too "positive" (to use your terms) for the future, here.

Always try to use the Moon in the analysis, specially in cases like this (romantic and Moon in I, clearly representing you).

Mars in its own sign can represent what you said - he is worried only about himself for now - but it can also mean he is a very sexual person (specially Mars in Scorpio) and this is what he wants now (not necessarily with you, but in general).

You failed to notice house positions in general. First of all, notice that Mars is in his XII house. Second, notice that you, Venus, is in his 3rd house - a house which is not usually associated with romantic relationships, but only with mild friendships, colleagues, chit chat.

BEST




I'm sure you did not mean to come off curt and condescending, but you do.. I was not using the modern planets, I just took note of where I saw aspects...that is why I continued to used Mars with Scorpio, otherwise I would have used Pluto.

I didn't confuse the glyphs, it was simply a typo when I said Mars trines Neptune, but that wouldn't matter in this case since Neptune isn't used in Horary.
Besides the sextiles of Mars and Venus, am wondering how one sees that its in the separating from the past to the future...is it based on how the planets are moving?

I didn't fail to notice the houses, if I was house one asking about a relationship questions , then my friend would be in house 7th, but since this is also a friendship question he could be in house 11.
But also, if his 3rd house is what you are saying, then Mars is in his 1st house Scorpio, sag, (2) to count Capricorn 3 as his 3rd house...otherwise his 12th being scorpio means the moon would be in 7th house..which would represent me and be significant ..but its not.

For the moon, I was excited to see that it was in the first house, but then the sign was Gemini, I don't think the moon is anything exalted /detriment IN Gemini...I felt the answer was a no, specifically due to Mars being in his own...and me Venus being closer to him (I'm not on his mind, the way he is on my mind)

thx
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astromythtarotbyjc



Joined: 29 Sep 2019
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Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tanit3333 wrote:
It seems odd to assign a friend as 7th house if you regard them as a friend currently. In any case, the 11th ruler is with the ascendant ruler anyway. Venus translates the light of Mars via sextile to Saturn and Saturn perfects the matter. Mars is cadent and so it is unlikely to be the one to initiate a relationship. He is not in the right situation to do it even though he is capable (essentially dignified but accidentally debilitated). With Saturn ruling the 11th that would make more sense for friendship. Technically, Venus is besieged and the ascendant has Algol on it, the most malevolent fixed star. In romance queries Algol often shows "losing one's head" in a figurative way, such as a crush or obsession, or irrational behavior. Moon opposes Mercury in detriment in the 7th, which could suggest strained communications. In romance charts, it can suggest fundamental differences between you such as different cultural, background, ways of thinking that can strain a relationship if either party wants their partner to have more in common with them.

If Mars is quesited though, Venus is received by exaltation but Mars approaches from Scorpio, which seems rather one-sided. When someone approaches from another planet's foreign territory, there is again a lack of common ground from them and as was mentioned, selfishness/self interest. However, Mars naturally favors Venus above other planets and is a sign of some romantic feelings for Mars. Saturn is dignified and receives the sextile with reception via Venus. Still, I think this would more likely favor friendship given that Saturn represents limitations and lords the 11th. Venus in hard aspect with Saturn often represents delays, hardships and distancing in love and can show unrequited love even if both parties might be interested. If it were to represent a relationship, it would likely come with delay and hardship but might be long lasting.

Moon in the 1st in a dual sign at an early degree often makes me think of feelings that come and go for the querent or maybe that you feel pulled in two directions, such as another romantic interest. Do your romantic feelings spring up unpredictably and go away where you lose interest? It is an odd placement for such a question.


Thanks T,

That was extremely helpful! In regards to the moon, It is odd, there are days where through communications with him, im giddy and happy, but then realizing he doesn't want a relationship with me brings me down so I can see that. The moon's placement greatly confused me...I thought with it being in the 1st house Taurus it was exalted, but its really in the sign of Gemini...and 1 degree.

With my natal chart, I am an aries sun, rising and scorpio moon with pluto/saturn/mars..although i know natal has nothing to do with horary...I wondering if my natural obsession is a staple in my relationships in general.

I thought to assign the 7th house because what I want is a relationship in the future not the current so I didn't think the 11th house would hold too much water in regards to the question...but overall everything you said made sense. especially the cultural background and extremely different ways of thinking...Not too many people recognize the strong/long lasting chemistry between Venus and Saturn in an aspect, but thank you for reminding me about Saturn's delays...I'll remain hopful until i'm not..which might again explain the moon.

Would you mind tell me how you started learning Horary..I would like to be able to interepret a chart the way you do..
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Yair Alon



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Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

astromythtarotbyjc wrote:


I'm sure you did not mean to come off curt and condescending, but you do..



Nor one nor the other. I just tried to point some things about your analysis and maybe teach one or two things to take into consideration, since it seemed to me you are a beginner in horary analysis (nothing wrong with that) and I wanted to help... maybe leave your ego a little bit outside and try to understand what I told you.

astromythtarotbyjc wrote:


I was not using the modern planets, I just took note of where I saw aspects...that is why I continued to used Mars with Scorpio, otherwise I would have used Pluto.



You say you’re not using modern planets but in your reply to Tanit3333 you again mention Pluto in your natal chart.

What I tried to say is you either use modern planets, or don’t. If you are not using them "there is no point to "took note of where I saw aspects". If you are using traditional astrology, there is no point in saying that Mars is sextile Neptune. As my math teacher would say when teaching us equations, you cannot add oranges (x) with apples (y). Stick to one system and forget the rest.

astromythtarotbyjc wrote:


I didn't confuse the glyphs, it was simply a typo when I said Mars trines Neptune, but that wouldn't matter in this case since Neptune isn't used in Horary.



Typo, beginner’s mistake, Freudian slip, it doesn’t matter... be careful with your analysis. Again, I only tried to help a person I thought is a beginner in the art, and I did not try to be condescending. I think this is a place to learn and everything is fine. But imagine you send that analysis to your teacher or to a client that knows a little bit of astrology...

astromythtarotbyjc wrote:


Besides the sextiles of Mars and Venus, am wondering how one sees that its in the separating from the past to the future...is it based on how the planets are moving?



Applying and separating aspects are essential in horary analysis and I highly recommend you study those. There are some softwares that will insert a "S" or an "A" next to the aspects in the grid to tell you if they are applying or separating, but I highly recommend you do it in your head, specially because it is not difficult at all.

Applying and separating is related to planetary motion and planetary speed.

Trying to be brief and non-technical, applying and separating are defined in terms of the what the faster planet is doing in relation to the slower one.

In the case of Venus sextile Mars, Venus is faster than Mars, and Venus is already at degree 18, while Mars is at 14. It means the aspect was perfect when Venus was at 14, and after that it started to separate.

On the other hand, when it comes to Venus conjunct Saturn, notice again that Venus is quicker than Saturn. It is at 18 and Saturn 19, so this would be an applying aspect.

If you want to go further on that, read about primary and secondary motion and, of course, applying and separating aspects (noting the special case of retrogrades).

astromythtarotbyjc wrote:


I didn't fail to notice the houses, if I was house one asking about a relationship questions , then my friend would be in house 7th, but since this is also a friendship question he could be in house 11.
But also, if his 3rd house is what you are saying, then Mars is in his 1st house Scorpio, sag, (2) to count Capricorn 3 as his 3rd house...otherwise his 12th being scorpio means the moon would be in 7th house..which would represent me and be significant ..but its not.



Again, don’t take it personally, as I think you did with my entire post. I said failed to notice the houses because you didn’t mention them in your post.

As for the signifier of the other person, this will be maybe one of the biggest topics of discussion among astrologers. As you noticed, Tanit3333 for example suggested to use L11 since you mentioned a friend. I suggested you use L7. My suggestion is you think about how to do it and then stick to one principle throughout your pratice.

I don’t recommend using two systems at once, meaning, to analyze L7 and L11. Of course you could do that, but my suggestion is: don’t.

Trust the art and your method, and be assured that the chart will give you the right answer, either you use one method or the other.

astromythtarotbyjc wrote:


For the moon, I was excited to see that it was in the first house, but then the sign was Gemini, I don't think the moon is anything exalted /detriment IN Gemini...I felt the answer was a no, specifically due to Mars being in his own...and me Venus being closer to him (I'm not on his mind, the way he is on my mind)



You’re right, the moon has no dignity or debility in Gemini, but as Tanit3333 noticed very well, it is in a "low" degree and in a highlt mutable sign, this can indicate, as Tanit said, "feelings that come and go" or "your romantic feelings spring up unpredictably and go away where you lose interest".

Besides that, notice the Moon is not connected to Mars (the signifier I would use), as Venus is not (or it is, but separating, as we mentioned). This would indicate that no, the friendship will not turn into a relationship.

Venus separating from Mars could indicate you had something romantic in the past, maybe a fling, maybe even a sexual relation, but that was it, in the past.

Adding to my previous post, Mars in XII could represent he is trying to "hide" from you, he is not interested in be open and clear with you, he may have secrets and can even be "playing" or being deliberately "mean" to you. For example, maybe he knows he doesn’t want anything with you, but instead of saying that, he prefers to hide the fact and leave you with your suspense. Mars in Scorpio can be cruel and secretive.

BEST
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astromythtarotbyjc



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Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nor one nor the other. I just tried to point some things about your analysis and maybe teach one or two things to take into consideration, since it seemed to me you are a beginner in horary analysis (nothing wrong with that) and I wanted to help... maybe leave your ego a little bit outside and try to understand what I told you.

interesting how you jump to tell me you were not being either...and yet felt the need to be just that by telling me I have an ego...as a beginner.

You say you’re not using modern planets but in your reply to Tanit3333 you again mention Pluto in your natal chart.
[/quote]

You know what the interesting thing about that sentence is that when I was typing it up..I knew you would comment on the fact that I brought up natal chart and how that is not part of horary...and so below is the full comment..to show how you seem to only focus on particular details ...


Quote:
" With my natal chart, I am an aries, su, rising, scorpio moon with pluto.saturn/mars..ALTHOUGH I KNOW NATAL HAS NOTHING TODO WITH HORARY...I wonder if my natural obsession is a staple in my relationships in general."


What I tried to say is you either use modern planets, or don’t. If you are not using them "there is no point to "took note of where I saw aspects". If you are using traditional astrology, there is no point in saying that Mars is sextile Neptune. As my math teacher would say when teaching us equations, you cannot add oranges (x) with apples (y). Stick to one system and forget the rest.
[/quote]
If you can distinguish the differences between traditional and modern astrology as the majority of us can do ..excellent....I'm not going to apologize for how I learn...or how you learn. I like to look/write down the aspects of chart, then take what is necessary.

Typo, , it doesn’t matter... be careful with your analysis.
Quote:


...you can't complain that I wrote it down and it is not traditional astrology and it doesn't matter in horary which is correct...yet it seems a very convenient matter when you want to point out a "beginner’s mistake, Freudian slip"..

maybe leave your ego a little bit outside and try to understand what I told you.


However you were saying didn't come off correctly....and telling me to leave my ego outside certainly isn't going to make my reply any more pleasant . I am a beginner and have no shame in that...but there is a way to help someone without being so critical and need to show off what you know.
But imagine you send that analysis to your teacher or to a client that knows a little bit of astrology.

But imagine you send that analysis to your teacher or to a client that knows a little bit of astrology...
Quote:


I wouldn't as a beginner...

Thank you for the explanation on the planets aspects, I will definitely look into it more.

Again, don’t take it personally, as I think you did with my entire post. I said failed to notice the houses because you didn’t mention them in your post.


I'm being criticized on how I look at a chart...writing notes...why wouldn't I want to take that personally?

As for the signifier of the other person, this will be maybe one of the biggest topics of discussion among astrologers. As you noticed, Tanit3333 for example suggested to use L11 since you mentioned a friend. I suggested you use L7. My suggestion is you think about how to do it and then stick to one principle throughout your pratice.
I understood where T using L11 was coming from...since we were already friends and had this discussion..
I being new to Horary used L1 AND 7 by saying Taurus/Scorpio and automatically assumed everyone would look for where they were located in the chart and know that they were house one and seven.
Quote:


It seemed we are used different aspects of Horary, but we all came to the same conclusion.

Adding to my previous post, Mars in XII could represent he is trying to "hide" from you, he is not interested in be open and clear with you, he may have secrets and can even be "playing" or being deliberately "mean" to you. For example, maybe he knows he doesn’t want anything with you, but instead of saying that, he prefers to hide the fact and leave you with your suspense. Mars in Scorpio can be cruel and secretive.

But that isn't the case.Thats why this doesn't represent the 12th house..

the reason I was asking if the friendship would change is bc he is sending me mixed signals... although they are not really mixed....because I know that my friends wouldn't normally text me that way he does....so I am receiving text and we communicate intimately not sexually, and his language around me is strangely more romantic...which is frustrating, that he isn't recognizing what he's doing..wouldn't it make more sense that he's hiding or refusing to acknowledge something in himself...and again I'm not see this as his 12th house.
Quote:

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Yair Alon



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Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Be happy, good luck :-)
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Tanit3333



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Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

Would you mind tell me how you started learning Horary..I would like to be able to interepret a chart the way you do..


Thanks. I primarily learned horary by reading as many books and online resources as possible as well as in attempting to read charts for other people (not for myself). I think what helps more than anything is to have the ability to use well-rounded knowledge of astrology and apply it to whatever patterns are showing up in a unique chart. Every chart is different so it isn't really possible to remember something very specific and assume it will work that way in another chart but there are always underlying themes shown, such as the planetary symbolism of Venus and Saturn in hard aspect in romantic charts. Deb Houdling says that she has archetypes that she uses for a given symbol in a chart and I probably do that too but then I put that into the situation. I think as far as romance charts go, it can be useful to read synastry charts for others too just because it helps you understand how the planets present themselves in romantic situations.
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astromythtarotbyjc



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Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you again T!
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StellarTiggy



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Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Answer: No. Venus applies only to Saturn, which is neither the significator of the other party nor does it bode well for Venus. Unless you also applied for a job, Venus is frustrated before it reaches sextile with Mars. Plus Mars receives Venus by exaltation but Venus does not receive Mars. You sure you like him?

Moon's next aspect opposes Mercury. Did you try to speak to him were unable to land a conversation?

ST
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astromythtarotbyjc



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Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

StellarTiggy wrote:
Answer: No. Venus applies only to Saturn, which is neither the significator of the other party nor does it bode well for Venus. Unless you also applied for a job, Venus is frustrated before it reaches sextile with Mars. Plus Mars receives Venus by exaltation but Venus does not receive Mars. You sure you like him?

Moon's next aspect opposes Mercury. Did you try to speak to him were unable to land a conversation?

ST


Hi Steller...

We've been talking regular since I made the post...even though we are in different time zones...We plan to chat more about the situation when we returns..I'm not holding much hope.. but as it changed greatly...I feel that he is being more emotional towards me(calling me beautiful) and he was upset that I didn't see it that way.. when I told him I was intentionally making sure to see these comments from him as him just being a nice guy...so I will report back.
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EleanorLouise



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Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 4:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I worry about your co-ruler (moon) or co-ruler of the present situation however you want to see it. Only aspects it will make in it's sign is opposition to mercury and then sun.

There are no "traditional" planets in any of the sextile, sqaure, trine signs from it.

Then you are besiege.

to me this signals a lot of difficulties getting it off the ground ad really creating something sustainable. It could all sadly point to empty promises on his on or him unable to fulfill what you think indicates a boyfriend/someone who is invested in you.

i find oppositions to bring a lot of push and pull. There is a tug of war feel to it when i have seen it manifest.
moon is 1st/7th which is the axis for a relationship which is something you are desiring with this man. Moon your co-ruler is also in the early degrees of a sign..showing a lack of confidence and conviction.
with the opposition with mercury a planet of communication and thoughts. To me the ability to process information and react appropriately.

To me there is a theme more so on your end of being hesitant and not seizing the moment. A lack of absolute and clear boundaries of if this is something or just banter. This could be because he's not giving clear signs.

you do oppose mercury who is in detriment in 7th house...communitcation about a commitment is not that clear.
Then there will be a moment of "void of course" this is a desert moment when in a midst of a sign. There may not be much development and a quiet period where you two may continue bantoring/flirting. Then there is an opposition with sun. Sun is your 5th ruler..so flirting, sexual stuff, fun. the stuff that occurs between two people enjoying each other whether in a relationship or not. Sun may also co-rule him since he is a love interest.
I think there may come a moment where you come to heads with him and thing not seeming to be very clear/promising.

Sun is conjunct 8th cusp..which to me is not great.

I think in the future you may end up having a serious conversation with him wanting to really know what you two are. You two could become sexually involved or could stay as banter/heavy flirting though lean more toward latter, but with the whole chart not clearly defined relationship. With no time period set on this chart...idk when this will come headway. It could be a while...2 to 4 months.
Since no time period limit set to this chart we can't say when this chart will fully manifest. I mean I can't say. Though just because you get to a point where you either clearly define it or continue how it is doesn't mean after this whole event this chart is talking about manifest that you two don't work it out later and become something. It is just talking about the next events to be coming up between you.
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astromythtarotbyjc



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Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi EL,

Thanks for the really great insight. Just wrote down some of the points you mentioned.

I didn't put a time period..one didn't know how, but mainly bc I knew he and I were going to be going back and forth texting and flirting.

He absolutely told me he didn't see a long term relationship with me...and I've explained to him he need to watch his language/actions towards me when chatting bc it can be perceived as something else..he wants to talk in person about where we are...but again I am not holding out too much hope that it will turn into something serious now..but will keep you posted after we chat.
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EleanorLouise



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Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

astromythtarotbyjc wrote:
Hi EL,

Thanks for the really great insight. Just wrote down some of the points you mentioned.

I didn't put a time period..one didn't know how, but mainly bc I knew he and I were going to be going back and forth texting and flirting.

He absolutely told me he didn't see a long term relationship with me...and I've explained to him he need to watch his language/actions towards me when chatting bc it can be perceived as something else..he wants to talk in person about where we are...but again I am not holding out too much hope that it will turn into something serious now..but will keep you posted after we chat.


sounds like you want two different things with his statement he made to you in your chat.
if you want to put a time constraint you can insert it in the question. Like for this chart you could also have word it as "will this friendship turn into a relationship in the next 3 months?" or whatever time constraint. I wouldn't go past 12 months though.
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