skyscript.co.uk
   

home articles forum events
glossary horary quiz consultations links more

Read this before using the forum
Register
FAQ
Search
View memberlist
View/edit your user profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Recent additions:
The Life & Work of Vettius Valens
by Deborah Houlding
Can assassinations be prevented? by Elsbeth Ebertin
translated by Jenn Zahrt PhD
A Guide to Interpreting The Great American Eclipse
by Wade Caves
The Astrology of Depression
by Judith Hill
Understanding the zodiac: and why there really ARE 12 signs of the zodiac, not 13
by Deborah Houlding

Skyscript Astrology Forum

Turkish Referendum...Yes or No?

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Horary & Electional Astrology
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
jupiter1st



Joined: 22 Mar 2011
Posts: 28

Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 11:23 pm    Post subject: Turkish Referendum...Yes or No? Reply with quote

A constitutional referendum will be held in Turkey on Sunday, 16 April 2017. The country will be ruled with presidential system if yes campaign wins. President Erdogan's authority will seriously be enlarged. Polls say there is a neck and neck situation.

I made a horary chart which has Saturn retrograding to ascendant degree. Astrologers say Saturn Retrograde in the first house is a big fat No. Yet, I remember having read somewhere that such a Saturn placement might mean that things will not develop as the querent wants. Since I will vote no, this may be an indication of my will.

The Sun as the authority symbol exalted in the deep down 4th house is strong but in the area of opposition. Yet the ascendant ruler retrograding to MC is in mutual reception with both Saturn and it's ruler Venus. It looks quite strong. I know late degree of Sag is rising and having Saturn in the first can cloud the judgement but I still want to know what you guys think?

Will the public say yes or no?

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
felipeastrologo



Joined: 02 Apr 2015
Posts: 225

Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Turkish Referendum...Yes or No? Reply with quote

jupiter1st wrote:
A constitutional referendum will be held in Turkey on Sunday, 16 April 2017.


A referendum is a people's vote. So who the Moon (the people) chooses wins.

jupiter1st wrote:
Polls say there is a neck and neck situation.


The chart shows that rather eloquently with the Jupiter-Sun Opposition on the relevant house cusps and Saturn angular favoring Jupiter (MR).

jupiter1st wrote:
Astrologers say Saturn Retrograde in the first house is a big fat No.


It depends on the question and the context. Is your question about what you want or about who wins regardless of what you want? The former is a L1-L7 chart interpretation. The latter is a L10-L4 chart interpretation. That must be clar before starting interpretation.

If this a L10-L4 interpretation Saturn on the ascendant has nothing to do with you. Or at least nothing that has to do with you that is relevant to answering the question.

jupiter1st wrote:
Will the public say yes or no?


Assuming this is about who wins (L10 or L4), this chart tells me that the public will choose whatever Mars is proposing. The Moon will aspect Mars next. Mars wins. That is, the opposition to the incumbent government's proposal wins.

If this is a chart about what you want then there may be a different answer.
_________________
--
Felipe Oliveira
http://traditionalmedicalastrology.org
http://medicalastrologer.net
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jupiter1st



Joined: 22 Mar 2011
Posts: 28

Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I asked whether the public's response to the referendum will be yes or no. (It is a yes or no referendum) The goverment runs yes campaign, trying to switch to presidential system. The opposition is against it. From your words, I understand that goverment's proposal will not be accepted and the opposition will win, right?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
felipeastrologo



Joined: 02 Apr 2015
Posts: 225

Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Assuming the question is structured in the particular way I described, correct, the opposition to the government wins.

Aslo, this is assuming you are in Turkey or that you are under the Turkish government's authority. If not, then the chart must be turned and a new interpretation made.
_________________
--
Felipe Oliveira
http://traditionalmedicalastrology.org
http://medicalastrologer.net
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jupiter1st



Joined: 22 Mar 2011
Posts: 28

Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I'm a Turkish citizen and I plan to vote.

Thanks for your reply Felipe...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
felipeastrologo



Joined: 02 Apr 2015
Posts: 225

Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're welcome.

It will be interesting to see the outcome.

Here'e one example of the same technique applied to another political chart where the people's vote is what is being judged:

http://traditionalmedicalastrology.org/presidential-election-prediction/
_________________
--
Felipe Oliveira
http://traditionalmedicalastrology.org
http://medicalastrologer.net
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SteveGus



Joined: 19 Sep 2011
Posts: 47
Location: Southern Indiana

Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wouldn't the 10th house be the natural significator of an important public political event like an election?

In that case, the midheaven is in Libra. Retrograde Jupiter is conjunct the midheaven out of his favorite ninth house which involves religion. Religious sentiments will affect the outcome, strongly but not wisely. With Venus in Pisces retrograde, she has at least for now escaped the Sun; and Venus will be back in her detriment in Aries shortly.

More importantly, at 9 Virgo the Moon will make no aspect to Venus, and may not make any aspect to Venus until she enters Libra. This would indicate to me that the answer to the question 'does the referendum pass' would seem to me to be 'no'.

I would also note the lateness of the ascendant. Saturn, rising, will soon enter the twelfth house, where he loves to work mischief behind closed doors. The late ascendant suggests that the outcome may already have been decided at the time the question was asked.
_________________
Le grand crier sans honte audacieux / Sera esleu gouverneur de l'armee.
La hardiesse de son contentieux / Le pont rompu, cité de peur pasmee.

- Nostradamus, Centuries 3:81
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Breeze



Joined: 16 Oct 2016
Posts: 235

Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have seen this thread, and I will read it after I post my own chart.

However, I can not see your chart.
_________________
Breeze
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
felipeastrologo



Joined: 02 Apr 2015
Posts: 225

Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Same thing here. Jupiter on the 10th cusp is on Neptune by antiscion. And Neptune is on the 10th cusp by antiscion.

Jupiter is in MR with an angular Saturn. "Twice" as much power for the government as the Sun has for the opposition. Plus the testimony of deceit.

The outcome is not the result of the people's choice alone. This is not a chart that can be judged by Moon aspect alone. The people's choice is clearly indicated on the chart. Bit other factors outweighed the people's choice.
_________________
--
Felipe Oliveira
http://traditionalmedicalastrology.org
http://medicalastrologer.net
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SteveGus



Joined: 19 Sep 2011
Posts: 47
Location: Southern Indiana

Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FWIW, the chart in the original post is set for Apr. 8, 2017 at 1:11 am for 41N01, 28E58 (Istanbul).
_________________
Le grand crier sans honte audacieux / Sera esleu gouverneur de l'armee.
La hardiesse de son contentieux / Le pont rompu, cité de peur pasmee.

- Nostradamus, Centuries 3:81
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mwastrology



Joined: 25 Jul 2015
Posts: 28

Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Official press release from OSCE (Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe) can be read here -

http://www.osce.org/odihr/elections/turkey/311726

The first paragraph says -

ANKARA, 17 April 2017 – The 16 April constitutional referendum in Turkey was contested on an unlevel playing field, and the two sides in the campaign did not have equal opportunities, the international observers concluded in a statement released today. While the technical aspects of the process were well administered, voters were not provided with impartial information about key aspects of the reform, and limitations on fundamental freedoms had a negative effect, the statement says.

Full statement can be read here -

https://www.osce.org/odihr/elections/turkey/311721?download=true
_________________
"As thou daily conversest with the heavens, so instruct and form thy minde according to the image of Divinity" ~ William Lilly
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jupiter1st



Joined: 22 Mar 2011
Posts: 28

Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The referendum resulted as;

%51,40 YES
%48,59 NO

The result for the 3 major cities, Istanbul, Ankara and Izmir is No but the nation wide result is Yes.

Felipe, you said the Moon would aspect Mars. Mars rules the opposition and opposition to government should have won. You don't seem to consider the orbs of Moon's aspects. Possibly because she rules the flow of events and she is too fast. The point is, she would also oppose Venus (10th lord) when she travels through last degrees of Virgo. Why didn't you take it into account? As far as I know her last aspect determines the outcome.(winner) That can also explain why the government has won. What do you think?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
felipeastrologo



Joined: 02 Apr 2015
Posts: 225

Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi jupiter1st,

Comments below.

jupiter1st wrote:
Felipe, you said the Moon would aspect Mars. Mars rules the opposition and opposition to government should have won. You don't seem to consider the orbs of Moon's aspects. Possibly because she rules the flow of events and she is too fast. The point is, she would also oppose Venus (10th lord) when she travels through last degrees of Virgo. Why didn't you take it into account? As far as I know her last aspect determines the outcome.(winner) That can also explain why the government has won. What do you think?


The technique I use gives the winner to the next aspect. I have judged a number of charts on political elections accurately using that technique. It simply means: "who the people choose".

So I see two scenarios as far as horary technique is concerned:

1)
This chart is "yours" so we have to judge it according to your technique. Which gives the correct asnwer.

2)
The result is NOT due to the people's choice; there are other forces at play. Which to me, the chart shows, and the news about your country hint at. I have seen this in two more charts on the subject.

A third scenario would be that we do not know the final result yet and it may change. Unlikely, it appears, though.
_________________
--
Felipe Oliveira
http://traditionalmedicalastrology.org
http://medicalastrologer.net
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Breeze



Joined: 16 Oct 2016
Posts: 235

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteveGus - Thanks so much for the time and place info.

You are right with your prediction that the outcome might had been already decided. Although I do not know who you think the outcome cld have been decided, but we have enough evidence here it is the goverment who decided it ! They simply changed the rules of election - which is totally against law - after the election was over! Of course they had already planned it because they knew they wld. Loose otherwise.

And your prediction with Saturn moving into 12th , so that it is mischief. %100 accurute !

Felipe - You say in your last post that " we shd judge the chart according to your rules because its yours" This really confuses me i.e. What if Jupiter1st did not know horary at all , how wld. We judge and/ or understand the chart ? Or how wld. We know if any personal tecnique is accurute and if we can apply it to other charts . This referandum was so soon after we ereceted the charts. What if it was 2 years later? Or can we judge referandum charts according to countries they are held i.e. No corruption in this country, so apply Moon tecnique! There may be corruption , personal teckniques!

I am novice to horary, there are so many things to learn. But I think this Moon tecnique really sounds. When I look at Jupiter1st' s chart and my chart , what I think is that we were not accurute because we did not consider Jupiter's antiscion.
_________________
Breeze
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
felipeastrologo



Joined: 02 Apr 2015
Posts: 225

Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Breeze wrote:
You say in your last post that " we shd judge the chart according to your rules because its yours" This really confuses me i.e.


Astrologers from diferent lineages can approach charts differently and arrive at the same conclusion. So, I like to allow that option open.

I know the Moon aspect technique is correct. Jupiter1st mentioned the "last" aspect within the sign. That does not sound far-fetched to me, even though I would not use that in my practice. I've seen that work in sports event charts.

Breeze wrote:
What if Jupiter1st did not know horary at all , how wld. We judge and/ or understand the chart ?


We know Jupiter1st knows enough. If somebody does not know enough we can deal with that when the situation arises.

Breeze wrote:
I am novice to horary, there are so many things to learn. But I think this Moon tecnique really sounds. When I look at Jupiter1st' s chart and my chart , what I think is that we were not accurute because we did not consider Jupiter's antiscion.


I totally agree. Jupiter's antiscion AND Saturn angular in MR with Jupiter.
_________________
--
Felipe Oliveira
http://traditionalmedicalastrology.org
http://medicalastrologer.net
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Horary & Electional Astrology All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
. Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

       
Contact Deborah Houlding  | terms and conditions  
All rights on all text and images reserved. Reproduction by any means is not permitted without the express
agreement of Deborah Houlding or in the case of articles by guest astrologers, the copyright owner indictated