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Charles Manson died.
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Fleur



Joined: 05 Feb 2014
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eric Harris, Columbine shooter, Moon exactly square Mercury. AA data chart from birth certificate
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Harris,_Eric

Midheaven Ascendant midpoint 19 degrees Libra 24 minutes also seems significant. His Sun, Venus, Mars conjunction falls on his Descendant/IC midpoint in 19 degrees 24 minutes Aries.
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james_m



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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i like how you keep finding these charts!

yes - mercury-moon square with mercury in the upper spot and opposite jupiter/saturn.. interesting that jupiter is included in it too, as it was in mansons chart.. however, this doesn't connect with the nodal axis.. i would consider the mars- pluto opposition in the chart here... again - i think these 2 in hard aspect are more prone to violence, either doing it, or having it done to them..

mars in harris's chart is very powerful.. nocturnal chart, rising just ahead of the sun and ruling the ascendant... problem is, it is opposed to pluto, so he thought on some level everyone was out to get him and he was going to get them? murdering innocent people never made any sense to me.. it is bad enough murdering someone who you think is guilty of something, but murdering innocent people? it's demented.. so - yeah - what were they thinking? one has to consider mercury and moon in all issues over the mind and how one has a grasp of reality.. clearly this guy and his partner were totally crazy on some level.. and, i note the close mercury/jupiter conjunction in his partner dylan klebolds chart, which we also saw in mansons chart..

the midpoints you share are always worth considering..
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Fleur



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Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ricardo Ramirez. A serial killer. AA data on astro data bank
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Ramirez,_Ricardo

Mercury exactly conjunct the Moon's South Node.
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james_m



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Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

it is really a mercury/moon conjunction on the south node squaring onto jupiter - out of sign square.. and... mercury is stationary about to go retrograde in a few days.. mercury is at the saturn/pluto midpoint - 10 scorpio - which is right where the neptune is as well.. and venus is square this point too from 9 aq 26.. sun opposite pluto as well..

he died with solar arc saturn conjunct his sun june 7 2013.. solar return for 2013 has 10 scorpio rising, with saturn at 11 scorpio.. venus profection year.. other interesting astro details i am leaving out..
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Fleur



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Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

james_m wrote:
it is really a mercury/moon conjunction on the south node squaring onto jupiter - out of sign square.. and... mercury is stationary about to go retrograde in a few days...


I read somewhere that Richard Ramirez had a very high IQ, something like 160. That stationary Mercury would maybe also give it a bigger orb of influence, so it does aspect the Moon even though the conjunction is 3.5 degrees orb, which would otherwise be a bit wide.
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Fleur



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Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another serial killer with a high IQ was Michael Ross
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Bruce_Ross

Born July 26th 1959, Putnam, Connecticut. No time of birth known. Mercury was stationary on July 23rd, when it went retrograde. On July 26th Mercury was 18 degrees Leo 50 minutes, retrograde.

His IQ was 150.

No idea where his Moon was, where the Ascendant/Midheaven midpoint was or what that Mercury was aspecting.

His victims were between 1981 and 1984, and transiting IsisTranspluto was 18 degrees Leo 49 minutes in November 1980, retrograded to 17 degrees Leo 45 minutes in May 1981, and was 19 degrees Leo 45 minutes in August 1984, not retrograding within one degree of his Mercury after that.

His stationary Mercury could have given him the high IQ, and also made his Mercury more powerful with what it did aspect that was "twisting" it, maybe the Moon or the Midheaven/Ascendant midpoint, something that you need a birth time to know.
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james_m



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Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

that is interesting about the high iq... high iq - low eq? lol...

regarding ramirez - mercury is 135 the saturn/pluto midpoint at 10 scorpio.. forgot to clarify that..

aside from the stationary retro mercury with both these guys, it is interesting to see the mars/pluto conjunction in this latest example michael ross.. that duo of planets in hard aspect is always a potential danger sign for extreme acts... in ross's example - the midpoint to both the saturn/pluto - about 2 scorpio and the saturn/mars about 3 scorpio are squared onto his sun at 3 leo..so - sun= saturn/pluto - i key midpoint in ramirez chart, shows up here again - regardless of the time of day, with the additional saturn/mars midpoint too... those are not nice midpoints.. having the sun, or mercury on them is another red flag of possible danger.. in the later chart - the mars/pluto is one of a few signs for extreme physical action, combined with these other factors, pushes it in the wrong direction.. it could just as easily be some great sports person too i suppose... oj simpson has mars/pluto midpoint 45 to ascendant degree..

it is interesting the idea of high iq and stationary mercury... wonder what a possible symbol is for low eq? no one ever factors this into that equation it seems.. i wonder if they are 2 sides of the same coin - high iq, low eq?? wonder if anyone has looked into that?
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Fleur



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Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The stationary Mercury that seems to give high IQ is a separate entity from the "twisted" Mercury that aspects the Moon and Moons Nodes in serial killers. In the case of Richard Ramirez, he has both.

I wouldn't think that emotional intelligence is either of these. I am not sure what it is, and Professor Jordan Peterson said it doesn't exist, which I tend to agree with, as a term espoused by self help books. In a looser, more genuine sense it might have more to do with the Moon, rather than being the other side of Mercury's coin.

Many serial and mass killers were not lacking "emotional intelligence". Most don't seem autistic at all, and many have the mask of sanity, coping very well socially, such as Ted Bundy. I did notice that specifically Brenda Spencer and possibly Adam Lanza had Moons in "twisted" aspects, which would be an autistic trait.

I just don't like the term "emotional intelligence", too commercial pop psychology. And I don't think there is a negative side to stationary Mercury, though stationary Mercury can be involved in "twisting" aspects just the same as any other Mercury, just as most extremely intelligent people are not serial killers and most serial killers are not particularly intelligent, though Michael Ross and Richard Ramirez have both. I think I read that Charles Manson had an IQ of something like 109, so average, though his music was good, which is probably more his Mars Neptune conjunction. I read somewhere that serial killers tend to have slightly below average intelligence, so intelligence does not go with the territory, though a stationary Mercury can extend the orb of a malign aspect.

Stationary Mercury just seems to mean Mercury is more powerful. This could extend the orb of influence if it is say three degrees from the Moon, as in Richard Ramirez' case.

These are only observations, and there will be loads of interesting exceptions to look at and puzzle over. For instance, the chess grandmaster Bobby Fischer's chart has an interesting Mercury, and he was harmless if colourful https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Fischer,_Bobby "his IQ was reported to be 180, and his memory was renowned for its ability to retain information" Bobby Fischer's Mercury is not stationary, but at 27 degrees Aquarius 50 minutes it gives an antiscion of 2 degrees Scorpio 10, which opposes his Moon at 2 degrees Taurus 05 minutes, and squares his Mars at 0 degrees Aquarius 57 minutes, squares his IsisTranspluto at 2 degrees Leo and Pluto in 5 degrees Leo. His Ascendant is 0 degrees Leo 34 minutes, his Moon's Mean Node 23 degrees Leo 55 minutes and Chiron 24 degrees Leo 35 minutes.

Then you get these unfathomable borderline cases like Ted Bundy https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Bundy,_Ted
His Mercury at 24 degrees Scorpio 28 minutes is 22.5 degrees to his Moon, it is an AA chart. His retrograde Mercury on 24th November 1946 is seven days from where it stations to go direct on 1st December. He was known to have quite a high IQ, I think something like 140, nothing too spectacular and he struggled in law school.
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Fleur



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Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As for nailing the astrology of intelligence, it is unlikely to be only indicated by stationary Mercury, as Bobby Fischer's chart shows. I looked up the chart of Friedrich Nietzsche on astro data bank. I wish Astrodienst would indicate if planets are stationary, as I need to find a nineteenth century ephemeris to check this one, but his Mercury has some strong aspects, but not to the Moon or Moons Nodes. His Moon forms a 2 degree conjunction to the Moon's Mean North Node, which implies possible autism spectrum.

Nietzsche's Mercury is 4 degrees Libra, opposition Uranus at 3.5 degrees Aries and conjunct Jupiter's antiscion, Jupiter being 26 degrees Pisces, antiscion 4 degrees Libra.

Professor Jordan Peterson commented that Nietzsche had intelligence way high, off the charts.

https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Nietzsche,_Friedrich

Edit: Mercury went direct on 8th October 1844 at 29.5 degrees Virgo. So Nietzsche was born seven days after Mercury's station.

As for the brilliant Professor Jordan Peterson, he was born June 12th 1962, no time known. https://www.astrotheme.com/astrology/Jordan_Peterson
His Mercury is 13.5 degrees Gemini, retrograde. Mercury stations on 19th June at 11 degrees Gemini 51 minutes. His Mercury squares Jupiter at 12.05 degrees Pisces.
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Fleur



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Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My conclusion is that stationary Mercury, maybe with quite a wide reach of days, is associated with high intelligence. It is not associated with serial and mass killers, that is more a Mercury "twisted" by such things as the Moon and Moons Nodes. The Moon "twisted" tends to give autism like effects, or being shut off from the world, but is not in itself to do with killers, but can sometimes be in their charts, though like intelligence this only happens sometimes. Your average killer is neither intelligent nor autistic, he doesn't have stationary Mercury or a "twisted" Moon, though these things do occasionally co-exist.
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james_m



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Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fleur,

thanks for sharing your various thoughts and perspective on intelligence and serial killers... you might not like the idea of emotional intelligence, but why does our society give such significance to high iq in the absence of a more complete perspective on humans? i personally believe people can be really bright on any number of subjects demonstrating a high iq, but yet be completely lacking on some other levels - mostly emotional... for me the question is - how could someone so bright do something so dumb? this leads to the idea that someone might be intellectually gifted - again high iq, but out of touch with their emotions or the emotions of others.. i have seen it too much in my life... if you don't like the idea of emotional intelligence - fine... why only like the idea of iq then?? maybe people don't like what they can't define... life is full on undefined characteristics and qualities.. life will always be a mystery on some level, unreachable via the intellect only.. some smart people can't seem to figure this out!!

as for fischers chart - mercury is on the south node indicating a possible talent with regard to mental issues...

nietzsche's chart has moon conj north node and rising which might indicate high emotional intelligence!

as for jordan peterson.. he seems like a troubled guy and i think that is borne out in his chart.. i note saturn on the south node - in square to both mars and neptune - forming what would be a grand square if one includes the north node as one of the corners.. he might be bright as you say - but he is carrying around a lot of conflict as i read his chart and what little i know of him... if he says someone like nietzche is bright - so be it!
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Fleur



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Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stationary Mercury is interesting just for showing high intelligence.

Nikola Tesla born 28th June 1856, with Mercury 27 degrees Gemini, retrograde. Mercury goes direct on 3rd July 1856 at 26 degrees Gemini.
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Fleur



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Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

James, I am still trying to think exactly what do people mean by emotional intelligence.
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james_m



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Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fleur,

just so you know.. most astrologers don't give this wider window of time on stationary planets that i do.. you found another good example though! we are getting further and further away from the charles manson even though he had this signature of s mercury too..

regarding emotional intel... fair enough.. i wonder about it when i see the mercury/moon square in particular... which planet has the upper hand.. in mansons case and in a number of these serial killers - mercury has the upper hand.. do you understand what i mean by this? mercury is in the upper position to the moon.. think moon as first house, or think moon houses and maybe it is easier.. mercury is in the 10th house of the moon and in the dominant spot to the moon..
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Fleur



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Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another serial killer on Astrodatabank with a high IQ. According to Wikipedia, Edmund Kemper's IQ was 145
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Kemper

https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Kemper,_Edmund

His Mercury is 0 degrees Capricorn 52 minutes, giving an antiscion of 29 degrees Sagittarius 08 minutes. This is opposition his Uranus at 28 degrees Gemini 35 minutes. This probably shows his high IQ, not the psychopathic side of Mercury, which may be shown by the duality of his Mercury also making 22.5 degree aspects to Saturn and Jupiter, Saturn being conjunct his Ascendant.

His Moon's North Node is 2 degrees Taurus, antiscion 28 degrees Leo, which squares his Venus at 28 degrees Scorpio 41 minutes.

These duality aspects of Mercury seem to be associated with psychopaths, but only stationary Mercury and Mercury in very tight orbed conjunction, square and opposition type aspects to Uranus (maybe also tight 22.5 degree aspects) seem to indicate these very high IQ's, over 145. This thought is only from looking at the charts mentioned in this thread, I am sure if I look hard I will find exceptions to puzzle over, and different kinds of intelligence with different patterns. Maybe helps to explain the myth that serial killers have high IQ's, when mostly they have below average IQ's, but a striking few do have these high IQ's. Just maybe the aspects that cause high IQ's make Mercury more powerful, strengthening the effect of any simultaneous dualistic aspects that Mercury might have, though the dualistic Mercury aspects on their own might help produce a serial killer, but not a high IQ unless Mercury is also stationary or making tight hard aspects to Uranus?
.....I know, this is all extremely tentative and there will be all kinds of other patterns, astrological charts are complex.
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