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Skyscript Astrology Forum

When Will I Get Off Probabtion?
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MarkF



Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Posts: 523
Location: Outside Washington, DC

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:22 am    Post subject: When Will I Get Off Probabtion? Reply with quote

I asked this pretty straight forward question on May 23 at 11:07 PM EDT in Falls Church, VA, 77 N 10, 38 N 53. I didn't like what I saw in the chart but still don't have an answer.

When I asked the question I already knew that my probation officer would likely recommend terminating it. She had told me that several months before. Since I cast the chart, I have met with my probation office and she did recommend that I be released from probation. The situation will only be decided by a judge. I knew this when I asked the question so I always knew that the 10th house will be very prominent. This what I don't like.



The ruler of the 10th house is Mars which is about to oppose my significator, Saturn in the 12th house. The Moon is not going to make any aspects. The Moon has just separated from Mercury. There are no antiscia or contrascia.

This is pretty clear. The judge is going to be opposed to releasing me from probation. I'm helpless and confined in the 12th house. The aspect will perfect with Saturn retrograde which usually shows a recurring event or something that happens fast. With both Saturn and Mars so prominent in the chart and the whole 6th - 12th pattern, this can't be good.

I had a fleeting thought that I could be sent back to jail given that 12th house position. I have eight months of a suspended sentence still hanging over my head. In order for that to happen, I have to do something I'm not supposed to do, and that is not in the chart either. The chart shows no change, no events, just the continuation of the status quo.

I should find out the answer soon. Does anyone want to weigh in before this happens?
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 87

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only thing I would add is that Saturn is turning direct August 26th. Perhaps this time will be significant for more information. I agree that Mars opposite Saturn is not good (and your significator in 12th).

The Moon actually functions in Taurus even without aspects. It is her exhalation. So that isn't so bad.

I think your probation officer is Venus. She could be Venus sextile Mars. Venus does tend to mitigate the negative impact of Mars and Mars receives her, so she seems influential in the decision. Mars in the 6th could be recommending community service although Mars in general is not friendly and may come down hard on you in other ways at the hearing.

Good luck.
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pankajdubey



Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 1212
Location: Delhi

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:19 pm    Post subject: Re: When Will I Get Off Probabtion? Reply with quote

MarkF wrote:
I asked this pretty straight forward question on May 23 at 11:07 PM EDT in Falls Church, VA, 77 N 10, 38 N 53. I didn't like what I saw in the chart but still don't have an answer.

When I asked the question I already knew that my probation officer would likely recommend terminating it. She had told me that several months before. Since I cast the chart, I have met with my probation office and she did recommend that I be released from probation. The situation will only be decided by a judge. I knew this when I asked the question so I always knew that the 10th house will be very prominent. This what I don't like.



The ruler of the 10th house is Mars which is about to oppose my significator, Saturn in the 12th house. The Moon is not going to make any aspects. The Moon has just separated from Mercury. There are no antiscia or contrascia.

This is pretty clear. The judge is going to be opposed to releasing me from probation. I'm helpless and confined in the 12th house. The aspect will perfect with Saturn retrograde which usually shows a recurring event or something that happens fast. With both Saturn and Mars so prominent in the chart and the whole 6th - 12th pattern, this can't be good.

I had a fleeting thought that I could be sent back to jail given that 12th house position. I have eight months of a suspended sentence still hanging over my head. In order for that to happen, I have to do something I'm not supposed to do, and that is not in the chart either. The chart shows no change, no events, just the continuation of the status quo.

I should find out the answer soon. Does anyone want to weigh in before this happens?


Cheer up ,you are the 7th and exalted.Let the Judge (10th) and the State (1st) slug it out.
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MarkF



Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Posts: 523
Location: Outside Washington, DC

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tanit,

Venus could be the probation officer. I had wondered about that too as Venus rules the 9th house of advisers. Venus is in Aries, in her detriment and though she is approaching Mars, does not prohibit the opposition of Mars and Saturn. In fact Mars and Venus both switch signs before Venus is sextile Mars. Venus can't be of much help.

Community service is not a possibility and to be honest, the probation itself is more of a formality. I saw her last in January and if the probation is not ended, I won't see her again until January. Though there is the threat of a maximum of eight months in jail hanging over me, I'd have to really screw up for that to happen. I don't see that in the chart.

And to Pankajdubey, I don't see why that you'd assign me, the querent, to the 7th house and the state to the 1st house. My limited experience is that the querent is always shown by the 1st house. Could you explain your reasoning here?
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pankajdubey



Joined: 17 Nov 2006
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Location: Delhi

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In a lawsuit, defendant is 7th .
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MarkF



Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Posts: 523
Location: Outside Washington, DC

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I'd tend to see me, or any querent, as the ASC and any opponent in a legal case as the 7th house. Could you elaborate as to why that might be different? I mean I'd love to be the Moon in Taurus, at home (4th house) with nothing else happening to me.
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 87

Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that Venus is not in a great state to help but the aspect doesn't have to prohibit the opposition, or even perfect within the sign, to be a helpful indication. Generally speaking, anytime a benefic aspects a malefic it can be a signification of aid, as long as the aspect is within an orb of influence. The amount of aid depends on the reception and condition of the benefic. Venus is only helpful against Mars though. She is too inferior to help against Saturn. Jupiter (a superior) helps with Mars or Saturn.

This is something I learned several years ago in reading Bonatti. It is true in natal as well and can indicate things like someone living into adulthood versus dying as a child, essentially, in charts with very malefic influences (such as both malefics on the angles in hard aspect with luminaries, etc.). The benefics are able to overcome whatever major obstacle is being signified - illness, accident, etc.

His 146 Considerations (Aphorisms) show this a few times, such as here:

Quote:

48. The 48th is, To consider, when an Infortune is Significator and his ill effects are mitigated, whether Jupiter behold him, or is joined corporaly to him? For that will wholly destroy his malignity and turn his nature into good, how bad soever he be; so that if Saturn in that place of himself would not bestow some good or perform what he seems to promise, Jupiter will make him do it, provided he be not afflicted himself, as in his fall, Combust or Retrograde (yet even then he helps, but not so powerfully). On the other side Venus takes off the fury of Mars, by reason of that endearing intimacy which is between them, unless the thing be very difficult, as wars and bloodshed, &c. But she cannot so well divert the mischief of Saturn without the help of Jupiter (and then she can do it as well as at other times that of Mars). The reason is, there is no such sympathy between Saturn and she, in any respect; for he is slow. she swift; he heavy, she light; de delights in melancholy, she in mirth.


In this case, as I said, she is not strong enough to completely help in the opposition. However, she should still help mitigate - that is to say at least aid you rather than, say, speak against you.
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MarkF



Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Posts: 523
Location: Outside Washington, DC

Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for that. I'm reminded how much there is to learn from the classics.

So what do you think the outcome will be?
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 87

Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To me, it seems to suggest a lighter sentence than the worst case scenario. That is, jailtime seems unlikely with the Venus influence and the Moon exhaulted. I don't know all of the options, but you may see some information when Saturn turns direct (it has been retro for many months now) and, say continue on probation until next year or the end of the year, when Saturn changes signs into its domicile, Capricorn. Saturn in such a difficult position here does seem to suggest this will take time.

Are you going through difficult Saturn transits? In my experience in observing charts, issues with the law where probation or jailtime is concerned often coincides with difficult Saturn transits (for obvious reasons - long periods of trouble and feeling trapped or waiting for a conclusion).
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MarkF



Joined: 22 Oct 2003
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Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really don't know about my Saturn transits. I feel that I know less and less about this the more I read.

I do interpret Saturn becoming direct as a good sign but still see this chart as saying the judge is opposed to me. 12th house Saturn retrograde, Mars opposed, this can't be good.
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MarkF



Joined: 22 Oct 2003
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Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, they told me today that I'm off of supervised probation. After one year they'll check my record again to see if I've been a good boy. That eight months of suspended jail time is still over my head till then though.

I honestly don't see this outcome in the chart unless I am assigned to the 7th house, which I would not recommend. Any thoughts?
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
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Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that outcome is not surprising. Again, it suggests there will be delay/prologing with Saturn, but nothing particularly unreasonable given the situation. Mars is again mitigated and the Moon is exalted. I wouldn't know how to interpret probation versus non probation with 8 months of still being on their radar, but it seems to show a less difficult sentence than what it could be. I think your significator is entirely appropriate given the subject matter. Also, Mars is coming up against Saturn in the aspect and Saturn is the most superior planet. It is worse when it is the other way around, in my opinion (being an inferior up against a superior malefic). You were in trouble with the law and on probation for 3 more months and are not entirely off the hook for 8 more months, so I fail to see why you would be an exalted Moon as your primary significator.
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pankajdubey



Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 1212
Location: Delhi

Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarkF wrote:
Well, they told me today that I'm off of supervised probation. After one year they'll check my record again to see if I've been a good boy. That eight months of suspended jail time is still over my head till then though.

I honestly don't see this outcome in the chart unless I am assigned to the 7th house, which I would not recommend. Any thoughts?


... and why would you not recommend the 7th house for a defendant in a law suit ?
That is the question Wink

Don't have to go far. Skyscript front page has house delineated from Deb Houlding's book - Temples of sky.
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/temples/h7.html

Scroll down to lawsuit section.

Quote:
In lawsuits or conflicts:
The opponent. The defendant in a lawsuit. Condemned persons or the criminal on trial.
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StellarTiggy



Joined: 17 May 2011
Posts: 229

Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi All,

I'm going to say no. The reasons are below.

1. Moon is void.
2. The next applying aspect to Saturn is an opposition from Mars in the 6th. This is an indication the probation termination will be denied.
3. Although Venus applies by trine from the 4th it is prohibited by Mars. I think Venus might be representative of your officer, but before she can perfect a trine to Saturn she is prohibited by Mars.
4. I'm not fond of these receptions. Venus is in Saturn's fall.

Best of luck,

ST
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 87

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ST - apparently there is a partial outcome. The querent is off of supervised probation and views this as favorable.

However, given that it took three months for this and he is likely not completely off of probation and still has a possible jailtime sentence that has not been cleared and won't for 8 months, I am not sure why he sees this as entirely favorable. In some ways it is but not enough to discount the validity of the signification here, in my opinion.
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