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Should I Buy This Used Car?
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 85

Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the article, Deb is referenced as using the 3rd house. I think the article in general shows how confusing it can be to assign a significator though.
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Part of Fortune



Joined: 29 May 2017
Posts: 138

Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi All,

My method is based on John Frawley.

I recalled somewhere in my mind that Frawley said that car belongs to 2nd house. I checked the book (THE HORARY TEXTBOOK on page 18 ) and I found:

Under 2nd house according to Frawley your car is 2nd house -- because it's a movable possession. It's not 3rd because you have to make a distinction between the thing itself and the function of that thing.

Since Mark has not yet purchased the car, the car still belongs to the seller in 8th. In which case, Mercury might be the car.

If Mark responds to my inquiry and gives us descriptions of the car in question, that might give us some further idea.
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johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1415

Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Part of Fortune wrote:

My method is based on John Frawley.

If so then you should also and especially read:

John Frawley, The Horary Textbook, p. 172:

"'Should I buy this car/boat antique?' The object is shown by the 2nd house. Although it is not yet the querent's possession, it is the querent's potential possession, so we can judge from the 2nd in the same way that we can judge the querent's romantic prospects with a potential partner by giving the potential partner the 7th."
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Part of Fortune



Joined: 29 May 2017
Posts: 138

Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johannes susato wrote:


John Frawley, The Horary Textbook, p. 172:

"'Should I buy this car/boat antique?' The object is shown by the 2nd house. Although it is not yet the querent's possession, it is the querent's potential possession, so we can judge from the 2nd in the same way that we can judge the querent's romantic prospects with a potential partner by giving the potential partner the 7th."

Wow, I missed that! Thank you very much, Johannes Very Happy

This Forum is great. In little over two months, I'm getting so much valuable knowledge and help from other members. I'm glad I made the right decision to become a member and actively participate here.
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MarkF



Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Posts: 523
Location: Outside Washington, DC

Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks you all for your kind input. I have to apologize for missing that Saturn, not Jupiter rules the 2nd house. Did I write this late at night or something?

The car is silver and is a mid-size car, slightly bigger than most but not a boat.

And yes, the outer planets do not exist.
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MarkF



Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Posts: 523
Location: Outside Washington, DC

Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Tom and Frawley that anything we purchase is best shown by the 2nd house. As Tom explained, I'm really just swapping my money for a purchase but theoretically my wealth has not changed. I'd tend to agree with Frawley too.

Just to keep it simple, it's hard to make Saturn retrograde in the 12th into something good. I associate things like this: old, recurring problems, hidden problems, problems with no solution, etc.

The Moon square Mercury, ruler of the 6th? Right after I posted this chart I was sick and took a few days off of work.
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Part of Fortune



Joined: 29 May 2017
Posts: 138

Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarkF wrote:

The car is silver and is a mid-size car, slightly bigger than most but not a boat.


So I'm still curious. Does the car's appearance say anything about its rulership? According to the above description from The Book of Rulerships" by Lee Lehman:

Silver color = Moon and Mercury
Large stature = Sun
Middle statue = Mars

Tanit (or others), what are your thoughts about that? Thanks!
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Part of Fortune



Joined: 29 May 2017
Posts: 138

Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi All,

I am still puzzled with the chart and significator of the car in question.
I found the page Johannes was referring to. My copy is the revised edition so it’s on page 200 (and thanks again, Johannes). I know this is the chart of “buying car” and “not missing item” -- still, I can’t get the 8th house off my mind.

On second house questions, Frawley mentioned:
“sometimes the natural ruler of the object can be used, whether it rules the relevant house or not. Do this if the chart thrusts this planet on your attention, or if, considering both the planet and the sign it is in, it perfectly describes the object”. (THE HORARY TEXTBOOK page 147 in the original version and 170 in revised version). Is Frawley only talking about missing items?

In regards to Mercury in 8th, of course it is the car seller’s 2nd house; there must be a lot of cars (Mercury) in his possession (Mark mentioned the word “trade” so it must be a car dealer and not a private seller); nevertheless, we are talking about one car here.

Silver color = Moon and Mercury (Moon square Mercury)

On the other hand, Frawley also mentioned:
“If the object is signified by the same planet as the querent, give the disputed planet to the object”
(page 147 in the original edition and p. 169 in the revised version). So that means car might be Saturn in Sagittarius sitting in 12th house.

Sagittarius = horse (equivalent of car in old days)
12th house = large animal (large car)

Could someone straighten out my confusion? Thanks!

Paul wrote:
It's interesting to me that either way the Saturn and Mars play a role here and I think I agree with you that he won’t be able to buy it. I'm curious what that square to Mercury means though. Another car? Another offer? Realisation he doesn't need it?”

Could one of them be the case?
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MarkF



Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Posts: 523
Location: Outside Washington, DC

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I asked the car dealer to let me have a mechanic look at the car before I buy it and he has not responded so far.

As to the whole subject of which planet rules a car, I'd say that it is pretty clearly the 2nd house if the question really is about the car, which in this case it is. If the question is about some trip I'm going to take in the car, the 3rd house would represent the trip overall, including car trouble and any other unexpected travel issues. Even in that case I'd look to the 2nd house as well as the 3rd house.

I'm reminded of the advice about understanding the question and which houses are involved before asking a question. There was a chart on this forum a long time ago that is worth mentioning. The querent asked a question about whether she'd get a new van and she kept looking for aspects between her significator and the ruler of the 3rd. When I got more information from her she admitted that she'd only get the new van if she won a law suit and if she got a big payment from it. I was firm in my belief that this question was not about a new van but was about a court case - whether she'd win it and whether she'd get any money from it. I looked to the ruler of the 10th house (the judge), the 7th house (her opponent in the law suit) and the 2nd house (her monetary situation).

We all probably remember Lilly's chart about whether he'd buy Master B's house. He ignored the house ruler for the seller and used the planet that had just aspected his own significator. Lilly said that since he had been dealing with the seller, the seller would be shown by the planet that had separated from his significator. I love that example but think that yes, William Lilly can do things like this but that it's not a good example for us average people. In other words, "Don't try this at home!" Besides that, I'm not really so sure what is the natural significator of a car is. Mercury perhaps for it's role in travel and communication but a car could also be Mars for it's power or perhaps even Venus if your car is a luxury item.
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