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Start of Brexit Negotiations

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Joined: 20 Dec 2012
Posts: 161
Location: Southwest England

Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 9:01 am    Post subject: Start of Brexit Negotiations Reply with quote

Hi there - it seems that the Brexit negotiations will formally begin on Monday 19th June 2017 at 11:00AM in Brussels. The chart below is set for this time and place.

The rising degree is very familiar, being Trump's ascendant, May's Pluto position and Corbyn's Saturn position.

The Moon's passage through Aries seems descriptive of the Brexit journey. Note that it ends in a final sextile to the Sun in late Gemini. Note the opposition of the ascendant and descendant rulers, Sun and Saturn respectively.

Question: is the ascendant representing the UK's position or the EU's position? Given that the negotiations start in Brussels, is the EU the 'home team', therefore represented by the ascendant.

Comments welcome.

"...the motions that are akin to the divine in us are the thoughts and revolutions of the universe."

Plato, Timaeus, 90.
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Joined: 02 May 2010
Posts: 89
Location: Jihlava, CZ

Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if the Asc can be said to represent any of UK or EU, but rather the issue in question, or possibly the questioner which could be both, indeed. As such, not sure if it really makes sense to talk about a "home team" here, and maybe better to look at it in the view of a divorce case, where UK seek to divorce EU and the terms have to be set in a court case. Just an idea...

However, my reason to post is another... First thing to strike my eyes when displaying the cart was the Moon in Aries approaching Uranus, and my mind automatically spit out the question "what's gonna happen when they meet/collide?". As that will happens already at 8pm CEST same night, one can wonder if we will have a shocker already first day...?

Maybe not, although with the aggressive attitude shown by EU the last days, I wouldn't be surprised... But as 9 hours are bit short for something major to build up I went on to look at next approach, the progressed Moon making contact with Natal Uranus, and this in itself revealed something interesting as well as surprising - or symbolic maybe if you so wish.

At least on my software Astrocalc, when I progress the Moon I get a date of 5 November 2017, which apart from being my spouses birthday also have some rather explosive UK historical dynamics in the 1605 Gunpowder Plot, starring Guy Fawkes (as it's most famous member), whose face have lived on through the "Anonymous Mask". Not sure what this means or what it may lead to, but thought it to be interesting and worth mentioning anyway.

Living on Earth may be expensive, but it includes a free trip around the sun every year.
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Malcolm Ramsay

Joined: 13 Apr 2008
Posts: 73
Location: Lincoln, England

Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd say Joakim's right about the Asc representing the issue in question rather than either the EU or the UK. But I'm not sure what information you're looking to draw from the chart, astralwanderer? It's not really like a contest where one side can win and the other loses; it's more a process to tease out mutually satisfactory outcomes on a range of issues. I'd have thought you need a clear question in mind to get anything useful from the chart.

There is a question I'm interested in (though we'll know soon enough anyway) which is whether the negotiations will in fact proceed from this beginning. It's possible that the EU negotiators will decide it's pointless trying to negotiate before the position of the UK's government has been properly established, and there's also a possibility (which I'm hoping the European Council will decide to go for, at their meeting on the 22nd) that the EU will ask for confirmation from the court that Theresa May's Brexit notification is constitutionally valid. Either of those possibilities would make the negotiations starting tomorrow a false start. How might that show in that chart?

I generally just use astrology for a sense of the background currents and I've very little experience of trying to interpret static charts. Joakim's comments about Moon and Uranus are consistent with the talks being unexpectedly called off but I don't know how much significance the short-term movement of the Moon has in an inception chart.

Astrolog shows progressed Moon reaching Uranus on 20th October, Joakim. I don't know which one we should believe!
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Joined: 20 Dec 2012
Posts: 161
Location: Southwest England

Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:34 pm    Post subject: Thanks Reply with quote

Hi there - thanks for your responses. I get the Moon pr. to Uranus on 4 November 2017 according to Solar Fire.

For reference, the following pr. to natal dates apply:

pr. Moon trine Saturn - 6 August
pr. Mercury sextile North Node - 5 September
pr. Moon sextile Mercury - 8 September
pr. Moon trine North Node - 20 September
pr. Moon conjunct Uranus - 4 November
pr. Moon sextile Sun - 18 November
pr. Moon trine Ascendant - 22 December
pr. Moon enters Taurus - 1 January 2018
pr. Ascendant enters Virgo - 13 January 2018

I guess I do see this more as a contest, the symbolism Sun opp Saturn suggests polarised views and the need to confront one another and establish a superior position. The Moon is, after all, in combative Aries, Mars ruled, and itself ruling Mars. If Sun and Saturn where in trine or sextile, I would agree that this is about a mutual discussion. The Moon's role describes the attempts to bridge differences, forming the soft aspects between the first and seventh rulers. The Moon's pr. relationships with the Nodal axis and Mercury suggest efforts to negotiate.

However, as you have both pointed out, Uranus, the planet of crisis and disruption intervenes, and the Moon moves finally to the sextile of the Sun. The Ascendant, being in the final degrees and minutes of Leo (a last gasp effort), surely suggests that these negotiations will founder, leaving one party (probably the EU - Sun in Gemini, suggesting multiple countries united in one identity, ruling the Leo ascendant) in the dominant position, represented by the Moon making its final aspect to the Sun before leaving Aries.

With the Ascendant and Moon then changing signs in quick succession, perhaps 2018 will bring a very different scenario, and a situation which we cannot, at the moment, imagine.

It is perhaps noteworthy that once the Ascendant progresses into Virgo, conjunct Regulus, it will be ruled by a Mercury in dignity, also ruling the Gemini Sun. Macron may have a pivotal role in resolving the situation, having natal Saturn at 00 Virgo 27 r. His pr. Saturn is currently at 28 Leo 29 r. sextile the Brexit negotiation Sun and trine Uranus. I wonder whether he will have a central role in this process esp. during November 2017.

The total Solar Eclipse of 21 August 2017 must be relevant here too:

Set for Brussels, Porphyry houses.

The ascendant and descendant of the Brexit negotiation chart is reversed here. Who turns the tables on whom? Or does this presage a change of government in the UK, with May's Pluto and Corbyn's Saturn very close to this degree. Note Mercury retrograde at the eclipse, ruling the eighth and the fourth (death and the end of things), suggesting, perhaps, a breakdown in the negotiations, or needing to go back to the beginning.
"...the motions that are akin to the divine in us are the thoughts and revolutions of the universe."

Plato, Timaeus, 90.
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Joined: 05 Apr 2013
Posts: 1870

Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dee Diddly Doo Dah

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Joined: 21 Mar 2014
Posts: 725
Location: England

Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dee Diddly Doo Dah


Not strictly true.
Verum e
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