Hello, I was thinking for a while in do some "Horary trivia test" so member can test their skills

As Christopher Warnock said in a recent post of his egroup

Both modern and traditional astrologers often "know" what caused some event in the past. "oh, isn't obvious how Hitler was a tyrant" How secure is this knowledge, however? How difficult is it to "predict" the past? How sure can we be that we really know what astrological factors are associated with a particular event if it has already happened?This is why prediction is so useful! Make a prediction and you can see it you really know what you are doing. When you have someone like David Hernandez who makes public predictions, you can say with
assurance, this is a brave and unusual astrologer!

So I though in posting a chart when all the elements are already know. I will put the answer here next monday or tuesday. I hope that is clear I am not bragging myself (I personally got the wrong answer) and is not meant to make fun of anyone, is just an exercise based in solid alternatives we can review our techniques.

Is an event chart for a kidnapping, I got the time from the news, so you know it can be about 15 minutes more or less, the kidnaped is a middle-aged woman. Estimated time is 9:00 - 9:10, I am using 9:05 AM, 11 March 2005. Campinas, Brasil, 47w03 22s54.

Following are questions and options:
1) The kidnapping is going to be short (less than a week), long (less than a month) or very long (more than a month) ?

2) The woman will be found alive or death ?

3) She will be found by the police or by itself ? (if alive, she runs by herself, if death, the body is naturally found)

4) How is the distance you guess she was take from home ? She is in the neighborhood, in the same town but far, or in another town.

5) In what general direction she was taken ?

6) She was found in a urban area or an rural zone ?

7) She was kidnapped because one relative is famous. Is her son, her father or her husband ? (I don?t even know if this has an possible answer !)

Anyone that get all answer right get a "Skyscript prize" and can work for the FBI
Hope it can be useful, and all people find it amusing and it helps us learn something
Yuzuru

Hi,

Sounds fund - what's the prize? Is it chocolate? Me, me, me!!

(Not that I think I have a chance - I'm rubbish at lost object type questions.)

No one wants to give it a try ? I promise it is much easier than the lost glasses of Mark F
:-)
Yuzuru

Yes I'll give it a go along with HQ

But you'll neek to give us a few days Y !! I'm sure several of us do things besides astrology and many have family and work demands as well

How about posting the answer Sunday night your time or something?

I was thinking next monday or tuesday, if you want me I prorrogate it a few days

I thought it would be funny because most of my predictions I am still waiting to see if they will come true

Yuzuru

Hi Yuzuru,

I don?t have a great faith in charts drawn for news reports but thought I would pop the chart in to aid your ?experiment?. Using the data you provided: 9:05 am I get the ascendant at 0 Taurus31 ? is that what you were working from?

Yes, unfortunately it is in the early degrees of Taurus. If the news were wrong, the ASC would be in Aries. You think that invalidate the chart ? I have another kidnapping chart of another woman if this is the case. But I thought that as this is a "real situation", astrologers has to do with real problems, like incertitude in the horary chart :-)

The other kidnapping I told was in Campinas too (47w03: 22s04), march 2, 2005, 23h (11 pm) right after she get out of college. Same questions, just refer to them as "college girl" or "middle aged woman"

:-D
Yuzuru

The second situation is probably best, simply because the first time is a ?guestimate? and just a few moments difference would change the significators dramatically.

The chart for the second scenario is shown below.

Hi Deb

I get a slightly different Asc at 4.51 Sag but the 1st-8th axis is thrown out by 2 degrees at 2.26 Cap/Can. I used BZT2 time zone, Brazil zone 2, (+3 I think) is this correct? The others vary from 10' to 50' but I figured it might be important to get these two right

I was going to say ?I?ve used Regio ? you must have used Placidus? but then realized it was the other way around Sorry - I?ve corrected that.

According to Janus the co-ordinates for Campinas are slightly different from those given here ? lat 47w05 / 22s24. I?m not sure which is right but that shouldn?t make any major difference.

For the lack of enthusiasm, I think most people found this kind of exercise kinda of boring, because we already know the answer
But if anybody wants to do it in privaty, of course it can be interesting for learning purposes. Of course it would be better if we all could share some theories.

In cases like that, an event chart, or an horary in which we are not related to the missing person, we use always the first house to signify the missing.

I believe is pretty obvious if the person was found death or alive, what do you think ?

Y

I believe is pretty obvious if the person was found death or alive, what do you think ?

Sorry to keep you waiting Yuzuru, but not being as quick or experienced as you, I think basically I?ve got no idea! What I can tell you is she either is or isn?t dead!

Significators used are Jupiter (1) & Moon for the girl and Mars (12 unknown enemy ) for the kidnapper.

Granted ? the co-sig Moon, ruler 8 with Saturn within ruling money, communication, local travel and the end of the matter (2,3 &4) conjunct Asc should spell death ? but the more I looked into it the more confused I became.

The girl is partile square the kidnapper showing the danger and approaching square to Saturn which is quite debilitated. Saturn is in Moon?s sign and face, Jupiter?s exhaltation and Venus? term but Mars? triplicity, so I would have thought it didn?t appear to have the power to act forcefully. Or does all that simply show its target (girl) and its cohort Mars) in dastardly deed?

Moon rules 8 but is in Jupiter?s sign, triplicity and term and Mercury?s (friends) face . But approaching square to Venus ( 6 health) which is combust the Sun (10 authority). It?s also square Fortuna. Venus, Sun & Fortuna are in 4 showing the end of the matter. So I guess that square?s not good either. Except that Venus is in her sign of exhaltation and term but Mars? triplicity and Saturn?s face ? again the danger. So I guess even with all Venus? strength the combustion worked and she died and the kidnapper was caught - Mars sextile Sun OR Sun conjunct Fortuna by 26? saved her.

Young woman (girl) is 1st signified by Jupiter in 11, showing her association with people/ friends i.e. leaving college. Jupiter is in its house of joy, own term, mutual reception with Venus but Saturn?s by exhaltation and face and Mercury?s term. So I would have said she was quite strongly placed but with danger attending.

Mercury is 4 rules friends (11) and agents (5). It?s past the trine to Saturn so they weren?t involved in the kidnapping and the Moon?s approaching trine means they were too far away to help her at the time?

Mars, the kidnapper, is in its own exhaltation and face and Saturn?s sign but Moon?s triplicity and Jupiter?s term. The partile square to Jupiter shows he had the power and will to act and succeeded.

By the way Jupiter is conjunct F.S. Seginus ? loss through friends, disasters and deceit.

So I guess she died, was found about 2 weeks later and the kidnapper was caught.

But I?ve spent so long on this I haven?t answered any of the other questions and Y is so anxious for a response I?m feeling guilty for taking so long.

Stuffed if I know!