Interesting "does he still love me?" Chart

1
So, I asked whether former love still loves me. The chart is quite complicated , and at first I was overwhelmed with it because there are strong mixed testimonies going on.

First we have the Quesited within the 1st house, conjunct the Asc, which right away should tell you the Quesited does, in fact, still love the Querent. With the Quesiteds significator in the 1st house, this means the Quesited is keen on the Querent, and since the Quesited is naturally in detriment there, this shows a weakness for the Querent. Somehow the Querent is weakened by his love. You could also say the Querent has got power over Quesited since Querent is on Quesiteds mind.

Now we go to the secondary significator for the Quesited. It is the Sun- the significator for the 'man' in quesited- sitting in the radical 12th house. This may suggest a weakness or sort of 'infirm' character...

The Sun is in the fall of the Moon and the detriment of Venus. What makes this so interesting is that Venus and the Moon are in opposition in the chart. Venus and moon are both secondary significators for the Querent. Venus as the significator of the Querent as a woman, and the Moon as her emotions. So the Sun is not happy with either one of these aspects of the Querent. Although, since the Quesiteds main significator Mercury is within the 1st, we have mixed feelings- this tells a story of what went wrong:

The opposition between the Moon and Venus within the 2nd/8th axis shows that the 'woman' is grief stricken with the Moon positioned in the 8th, yet the Moon is in its own domicile, which is quite resolute. It paints a picture of a grief stricken Moon who is used to being grief stricken- like she's alone in her grief and she is contained within herself and her solitude because planets in domicile are independent from others. Like she made a decision- because planets in domicile are decicive and resolute. So she made a choice to suffer.

And we see the Sun is in the Moons fall which means the Sun is disappointed in the Moons emotional state which drove her to make a decision.

If you look at Venus- Venus is opposite the Moon which tells you exactly what that decision was. The Moon recently separated from Venus which is placed in the Moons detriment- So Venus- the Woman- hates her emotions. But Venus is concerned with something.

She is concerned with Saturn because she is in Saturn's domicile. And Saturn is within the first house- with Querent. Saturn rules the second house of money and possessions. What do you think Venus made her decision about? What has power over Venus? That would be Saturn.

So the Sun hates Venus, the Man hates the Womans decision.

So, Venus hates The Moon- She hates how she feels about her decision. The Moon hates Saturn. Because the Moon suffers because Saturn has power over Venus which is the reason Venus made her decision to choose her "comfortable" (Venus in Second) life over following her heart.

There's a lot of internal conflict in this chart with the Moon opposite Venus. You can see what that internal conflict is about. Its about 'power over' and the grief that is a result of that.

So, Quesited loves querent seeing as his main Significator is in the 1st, but hates part of her since he's stuck there(Sun in 12th) in an unfavorable, poor and weak/miserable position while she did not follow her heart (Venus moon opposition) and Quesited believes she is where she is for the wrong reasons.

http://i65.tinypic.com/rkwlsh.jpg
Last edited by StarzQ on Sat Nov 19, 2016 7:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Sorry there were so many errors in the text above if you happened to read it before I fixed it. I had to edit it about 10 times- I'm on my phone and autocorrect likes to take over, but it's fixed now, I think.

Anyone want to discuss the chart- anything I missed? Any corrections you have for me? I'm still learning and love to discuss with others. Any viewpoints are welcome :)

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If you want a limited answer and some theoretical comments, I can offer that.

If you want a more complete answer that applies to the querent's life situation then you have to tell us the story behind the question.

When we go to the doctor we cannot just say: "I have a pain". We usually tell where the pain is and what may have caused it, our expectations, concerns, etc.
--
Felipe Oliveira
http://traditionalmedicalastrology.org
http://medicalastrologer.net

4
Felipe, sorry for being vague. I already stated everything in former threads so I guess I'm just looking for an excuse to be vague. This is about the same person I referred to as 'the love of my life' before. I have a husband who I chose over him. My husband has power over me because he provides for me and I have a comfortable life with him. Over the summer, I left my husband because I did not feel he loves me in that he denies me pretty much everything. Babies, pets, the geographical location I want to live in, extended family. Basically he has complete control of me. But I feel like I need him for whatever reason, mainly because of the quality of life I have with him as far as stability, comfort ,possessions, security, self esteem vs. away from him. Away from him, I do not feel like I have the strength to be autonomous.

Anyway, I was just wondering if the Quesited still loves me as before. Since I remain here due to my husband's power over me. I think we did have true love. He waited for me for years but I never could leave my husband. Btw, I knew him long before I married my husband.

The Quesited is with someone now but I don't think his quality of life is ideal. I mean, I could not live in it, myself and that actually scares me about him. He seems to be unstable and I feel like I can't deal with that. And that's the way it's always been- it was the reason I chose my husband. As much as I loved him, I could never get past that he wasn't stable enough. But I miss the true love. I miss truly connecting with someone. I felt good emotionally, but I had too much fear. He never really showed me anything concrete and my feelings weren't enough.

5
StarzQ wrote:Felipe, sorry for being vague. I already stated everything in former threads so I guess I'm just looking for an excuse to be vague.
Thank you for the clarification. The stuff you share about the situation is so relevant and useful in interpretation.

I figured it was about the same person. But I've seen enough discussions based on assumptions and they become messy in short order. They usually become a bagful of "maybes" and no accurate answer can come out of it. So I have the habit of not assuming anything before starting any interpretation. What is usually obvious to the querent is rarely, if ever, obvious to the astrologer. We are not psychics! :-) (Usually?)
StarzQ wrote:I was just wondering if the Quesited still loves me as before.
The short answer is "yes". Mercury, L7, is in your house. Period.

Mercury may be weak for different reasons; but he is not weak by his position in the sign of your house. Its detriment is automatic so not valid as testimony because house 1 and 7 are opposite one another. Yes, being in your house means he is competely receptive and "given" to you. This is the primary testimony for a "yes" answer in a question such as yours.
StarzQ wrote:The Quesited is with someone now but I don't think his quality of life is ideal.
Certainly. This is real life. If he loves you, what is he doing with someone else? Well, life is rather complext in that regard. So, he has his reasons, just like you have yours to be with your husband.
StarzQ wrote:the Sun- the significator for the 'man' in quesited- sitting in the radical 12th house. This may suggest a weakness or sort of 'infirm' character...
It could show that. But this is a maybe, for me. So I usually advise not to put to much emotional weight on "maybes".

Tell me. An important horary technical point and testimony: what is happening between the Sun and Mars?
StarzQ wrote:She is concerned with Saturn because she is in Saturn's domicile. And Saturn is within the first house- with Querent. Saturn rules the second house of money and possessions. What do you think Venus made her decision about? What has power over Venus? That would be Saturn.
What in the situation embodies your money and security and has a strong influence in your life and Jupiter exalts and Venus values above all, and the Moon (your emotions) hates/despises/rejects?

You already told us: your husband. And he is as much under your power as you are in his. You have a mutual "agreement" of being "imprisoned" (for lack of better term) by one another. That's Venus' motivation, supported by Jupiter (your thinking mind). Remember Venus in the other chart? Angular and in its own sign: powerful and focused on self. The boss. Whatever Venus decides the rest of "you" follows, for better or for worse.

The Moon (your emotional self) is at odds with two other "yous" (Venus and Jupiter). As long as Jupiter and Venus win you will not be emotionally happy.
StarzQ wrote:There's a lot of internal conflict in this chart with the Moon opposite Venus. You can see what that internal conflict is about. Its about 'power over' and the grief that is a result of that.
Absolutely correct. What Venus wants/values the Moon despises. Security and money are in the domain of Venus and the Sun, it is the "physical" psychology and material values we all have. That very, very often is conflicting with what the heart (Moon) wants. The great majority of people live with such conflicts in their lives. Most people live in fear of losing what they have or fear of not having enough so, we suffer with the imagination of loss or want, regardless of whether we experience that loss in actuality. That is the form a psychological prison takes place for many.
StarzQ wrote:But I miss the true love. I miss truly connecting with someone. I felt good emotionally, but I had too much fear. He never really showed me anything concrete and my feelings weren't enough.
Now, there is something rather interesting and revealing in this chart. None of your significators are in any significant dignities of Mercury. You miss being loved, that is given by the context. But the chart gives no indication that you love him. You simply miss his love because you know he loved and loves you. Any love you may still have for him (if any) is completely overruled by your focus on Saturn. The fact it does not appear in the chart is significant and a clue to the possiblity of you moving on with your life and being focussing on new horizons other than Mercury. Mercury is on the star Antares: it is over with Mercury.

Finally, as much as I resonate with John Frawley's logic and clarity, I am cautious about the concept of "love and hate". They are an excellent starting point to develop an understanding of the concept of attraction vs. rejection, and receptions; but they should not be taken literally with the "love and hate" feelings one may have. Although it CAN be literal if the context alows it.

Notice the number of repeated testimonies in this chart as compared with the previous chart. The heavens are in the mood that you receive a message. And the mesage keeps getting refined.

The Moon exalts Jupiter, so it emphasizes the power of Jupiter over your emotions. Venus exalts Mars, which empasizes the Venus cannot be happy with the Sun because Mars is in the picture. Look at Mars and the Sun, what is happening between them?
--
Felipe Oliveira
http://traditionalmedicalastrology.org
http://medicalastrologer.net

6
felipeastrologo wrote:
StarzQ wrote:Felipe, sorry for being vague. I already stated everything in former threads so I guess I'm just looking for an excuse to be vague.
Thank you for the clarification. The stuff you share about the situation is so relevant and useful in interpretation.

I figured it was about the same person. But I've seen enough discussions based on assumptions and they become messy in short order. They usually become a bagful of "maybes" and no accurate answer can come out of it. So I have the habit of not assuming anything before starting any interpretation. What is usually obvious to the querent is rarely, if ever, obvious to the astrologer. We are not psychics! :-) (Usually?)
StarzQ wrote:I was just wondering if the Quesited still loves me as before.
The short answer is "yes". Mercury, L7, is in your house. Period.

Mercury may be weak for different reasons; but he is not weak by his position in the sign of your house. Its detriment is automatic so not valid as testimony because house 1 and 7 are opposite one another. Yes, being in your house means he is competely receptive and "given" to you. This is the primary testimony for a "yes" answer in a question such as yours.
StarzQ wrote:The Quesited is with someone now but I don't think his quality of life is ideal.
Certainly. This is real life. If he loves you, what is he doing with someone else? So he suffers. Well, life is rather complext in that regard. So, he has his reasons, just like you have yours to be with your husband.
StarzQ wrote:the Sun- the significator for the 'man' in quesited- sitting in the radical 12th house. This may suggest a weakness or sort of 'infirm' character...
It could show that. But this is a maybe, for me. So I usually advise not to put to much emotional weight on "maybes".

Tell me. An important horary technical point and testimony: what is happening between the Sun and Mars?
StarzQ wrote:She is concerned with Saturn because she is in Saturn's domicile. And Saturn is within the first house- with Querent. Saturn rules the second house of money and possessions. What do you think Venus made her decision about? What has power over Venus? That would be Saturn.
What in the situation embodies your money and security and has a strong influence in your life and Jupiter exalts and Venus values above all, and the Moon (your emotions) hates/despises/rejects?

You already told us: your husband. And he is as much under your power as you are in his. You have a mutual "agreement" of being "imprisoned" (for lack of better term) by one another. That's Venus' motivation, supported by Jupiter (your thinking mind). Remember Venus in the other chart? Angular and in its own sign: powerful and focused on self. The boss. Whatever Venus decides the rest of "you" follows, for better or for worse.

The Moon (your emotional self) is at odds with two other "yous" (Venus and Jupiter). As long as Jupiter and Venus win you will not be emotionally happy.
StarzQ wrote:There's a lot of internal conflict in this chart with the Moon opposite Venus. You can see what that internal conflict is about. Its about 'power over' and the grief that is a result of that.
Absolutely correct. What Venus wants/values the Moon despises. Security and money are in the domain of Venus and the Sun, it is the "physical" psychology and material values we all have. That very, very often is conflicting with what the heart (Moon) wants. The great majority of people live with such conflicts in their lives. Most people live in fear of losing what they have or fear of not having enough so, we suffer with the imagination of loss or want, regardless of whether we experience that loss in actuality. That is the form a psychological prison takes place for many.
StarzQ wrote:But I miss the true love. I miss truly connecting with someone. I felt good emotionally, but I had too much fear. He never really showed me anything concrete and my feelings weren't enough.
Now, there is something rather interesting and revealing in this chart. None of your significators are in any significant dignities of Mercury. You miss being loved, that is given by the context. But the chart gives no indication that you love him. You simply miss his love because you know he loved and loves you. Any love you may still have for him (if any) is completely overruled by your focus on Saturn. The fact it does not appear in the chart is significant and a clue to the possiblity of you moving on with your life and focussing on new horizons other than Mercury. Mercury is on the star Antares: it is over with Mercury.

Finally, as much as I resonate with John Frawley's logic and clarity, I am cautious about the concept of "love and hate". They are an excellent starting point to develop an understanding of the concept of attraction vs. rejection, and receptions; but they should not be taken literally with the "love and hate" feelings one may have. Although it CAN be literal if the context alows it.

Notice the number of repeated testimonies in this chart as compared with the previous chart. The heavens are in the mood that you receive a message. And the mesage keeps getting refined.

The Moon exalts Jupiter, so it emphasizes the power of Jupiter over your emotions. Venus exalts Mars, which empasizes that Venus cannot be happy with the Sun because Mars is in the picture. Look at Mars and the Sun, what is happening between them?
--
Felipe Oliveira
http://traditionalmedicalastrology.org
http://medicalastrologer.net

7
"If he loves you, what is he doing with someone else? So he suffers. Well, life is rather complext in that regard. So, he has his reasons, just like you have yours to be with your husband.

I guess I just don't understand it either- why he wouldn't just get a hold of me and put it all out on the table. I mean, I was the one to cut things off but he definitely knows it's not really what I wanted to do. I think I know why, but it's a hazy intuition and it still makes no sense to me. I think he feels like he is no good- like he would ruin me or something. I think he has me on some pedestal and he thinks that I'm too good for him. He's afraid of damaging me...something like that. He used to say he was a piece of shit and I never understood how he could say that about himself. He would tell me to just be happy with what I have, because he felt he was no good. Anyway, basically my intuition tells me he is afraid of ruining a good thing. He finds me too good for him, something like that.



"Tell me. An important horary technical point and testimony: what is happening between the Sun and Mars?"

Its weird- I did notice that but I didn't comment on it because I felt it was off the point of the horary. His significator Mercury just separated from a sextile to Mars. I think Mars is the other woman he's currently with. But I can't really glean anything as far as their relationship out of it.


"What in the situation embodies your money and security and has a strong influence in your life and Jupiter exalts and Venus values above all, and the Moon (your emotions) hates/despises/rejects?

You already told us: your husband. And he is as much under your power as you are in his. You have a mutual "agreement" of being "imprisoned" (for lack of better term) by one another. That's Venus' motivation, supported by Jupiter (your thinking mind). Remember Venus in the other chart? Angular and in its own sign: powerful and focused on self. The boss. Whatever Venus decides the rest of "you" follows, for better or for worse."

Yes Jupiter is in Venus' domicile, but Venus is in Jupiter's fall, so Venus knows it's not good for Jupiter/ me as a whole. It is pretty crazy how Venus was strong in the other chart and also in this one. Even in that first horary about my relationship with my husband- when I asked if my husband was bad for me- Venus was strong in her domicile.

I think it's because both these men adore me physically and I'm not trying to brag or anything but they have lifted me up in that way. I know for a fact they both think I'm beautiful albeit in different ways. So Venus is probably full of herself. In this chart she's in her triplicity and term I believe. But yeah...what to do about Venus?


"The Moon (your emotional self) is at odds with two other "yous" (Venus and Jupiter). As long as Jupiter and Venus win you will not be emotionally happy."

Well the Moon likes Jupiter very much in her exaltation- this probably means I'm confident that the guy loves me in some emotional way. Like I feel (Moon) like I'm good enough or worthy enough or something. At a basic level of personality. But yeah, it's not happy with the Venus- it's not receiving her...she is at odds with the Moons needs.


"Absolutely correct. What Venus wants/values the Moon despises. Security and money are in the domain of Venus and the Sun, it is the "physical" psychology and material values we all have. That very, very often is conflicting with what the heart (Moon) wants. The great majority of people live with such conflicts in their lives. Most people live in fear of losing what they have or fear of not having enough so, we suffer with the imagination of loss or want, regardless of whether we experience that loss in actuality. That is the form a psychological prison takes place for many."

Indeed- it's a Saturn ruled world...what are you gonna do? I think Saturn is the main culprit for our fears.


"Now, there is something rather interesting and revealing in this chart. None of your significators are in any significant dignities of Mercury. You miss being loved, that is given by the context. But the chart gives no indication that you love him. You simply miss his love because you know he loved and loves you. Any love you may still have for him (if any) is completely overruled by your focus on Saturn. The fact it does not appear in the chart is significant and a clue to the possiblity of you moving on with your life and focussing on new horizons other than Mercury. Mercury is on the star Antares: it is over with Mercury."

Possibly, I certainly lost some respect for him. But I think I still love him too. I have wondered if the love went away when I lost respect, but you know....jupiter, I think it wants to believe. I think I will always have some love for him.

"Finally, as much as I resonate with John Frawley's logic and clarity, I am cautious about the concept of "love and hate". They are an excellent starting point to develop an understanding of the concept of attraction vs. rejection, and receptions; but they should not be taken literally with the "love and hate" feelings one may have. Although it CAN be literal if the context alows it."

You're right, partly it was laziness on my part to describe the relationships between the planets. I really didn't mean hate literally.


"Notice the number of repeated testimonies in this chart as compared with the previous chart. The heavens are in the mood that you receive a message. And the mesage keeps getting refined."

Yes, I did notice. Its pretty remarkable isn't it? If this doesn't make you a believer in horary, I don't know what would.

"Venus exalts Mars, which empasizes that Venus cannot be happy with the Sun because Mars is in the picture. Look at Mars and the Sun, what is happening between them?"

Yes but the Moon is in Mars' fall. I don't like who he's with currently. I think it's such a shame on both of their parts honestly. But that's a story for another day. The way they got together was scandelous. I'm not sure what's happening between them but I see that Mars receives the Sun whereas the Sun doesn't receive Mars. Mars is in the detriment of the Sun. What do you think is going on with them? Do you think she is damaging him somehow?

8
StarzQ wrote:His significator Mercury just separated from a sextile to Mars. I think Mars is the other woman he's currently with.
Yes, Mars is the other woman. Although Mercury is separating from Mercury and is in close contact with it, the main testimony is that Mars and the Sun are conjunct by antiscion.

Antiscion is very imortant in horary. Always scan the chart for significators' anstiscia.
StarzQ wrote:"The Moon (your emotional self) is at odds with two other "yous" (Venus and Jupiter). As long as Jupiter and Venus win you will not be emotionally happy."

Well the Moon likes Jupiter very much in her exaltation- this probably means I'm confident that the guy loves me in some emotional way.
If you are confident the context gives that. I do not read this as "likes Jupiter". Jupiter is the part of you which obeys Venus and Saturn. Jupiter has a significant degree of power over how you feel.
StarzQ wrote:Indeed- it's a Saturn ruled world...what are you gonna do? I think Saturn is the main culprit for our fears.
Indeed. Saturn is the natural ruler of fear, a house 12 matter, and a limitation. Being aware of our particular flavor of fear is the first step to becoming free from it.
StarzQ wrote:You're right, partly it was laziness on my part to describe the relationships between the planets. I really didn't mean hate literally.
Ok. That is good to know.
StarzQ wrote:Yes but the Moon is in Mars' fall. I don't like who he's with currently.
The Moon is also in Mars' triplicity. But I would not read those receptions. I read receptions only as far as I judge it to be useful to form a message. Not all receptions make sense or should make sense (specially negative receptions), otherwise we can end up writing a novel out of the chart?
StarzQ wrote:I see that Mars receives the Sun whereas the Sun doesn't receive Mars. Mars is in the detriment of the Sun. What do you think is going on with them? Do you think she is damaging him somehow?
It is quite possible, telling from the degree of self-deprecation or self-victimization you told us he seems to have. People stuck in self-deprecation or self-victimization often attract people who will harm or dislike them. But I would go into that only if the question was about them. Here I would disregard their receptions. It is enough that the chart confirms they are together, again!
--
Felipe Oliveira
http://traditionalmedicalastrology.org
http://medicalastrologer.net

9
(sorry I can't quote in the normal way on this device but...)


"It is quite possible, telling from the degree of self-deprecation or self-victimization you told us he seems to have. People stuck in self-deprecation or self-victimization often attract people who will harm or dislike them. But I would go into that only if the question was about them. Here I would disregard their receptions. It is enough that the chart confirms they are together, again!"

Well not "again". He left the woman he was with originally- the one he got with after I cut off communication- he left her for another woman. From what I can see, this other one is pretty vile. She had been conniving to steal him from the other woman
I could tell you how but that has nothing to do with this chart.

But anyway, speaking of psychics,
I forgot to say that I had a dream where he told me that he did this for me. And I have this voice that comes into my mind as if outside of me saying "I did this for you" every time I start to wonder what in the hell he is doing with her. God only knows what it means, but it is persistent. I don't understand why he would ever think this was a good idea.

10
StarzQ wrote:Well not "again". He left the woman he was with originally- the one he got with after I cut off communication...
I meant "again" there is a 3rd person, with him. Not necessarily the same person as before.
StarzQ wrote:And I have this voice that comes into my mind as if outside of me saying "I did this for you" every time I start to wonder what in the hell he is doing with her. God only knows what it means, but it is persistent. I don't understand why he would ever think this was a good idea.
The two of you might have soul agreements. Such agreements seldom make sense "down here". A good psychic/medium/channel could clarify though.
--
Felipe Oliveira
http://traditionalmedicalastrology.org
http://medicalastrologer.net

11
I feel like we do have some type of soul agreement. It's just so hard to be in love with someone you can't be with. We have a weird connection though, it goes beyond regular love. Ever since I met him, I get all of these strange coincidences that seem to be coming as a result of my soul putting out something in the universe. I know it makes no sense, but... Well it doesn't make sense. I've been trying to figure out what it is for years. We also have a telepathic connection.

So, I was wondering how I would read a chart about his and her relationship? Is that even ethical to ask about? Would she take the 1st house of I did that? Both of them the 7th? Would she get Venus? How do you read these type of charts?

Thank you!

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StarzQ wrote:I've been trying to figure out what it is for years. We also have a telepathic connection.
I know people and techniques that can help with information on astral matters in a much deeper and more accurate way than horary.
StarzQ wrote:So, I was wondering how I would read a chart about his and her relationship?
It depends on the question.
StarzQ wrote:Is that even ethical to ask about?
It depends on who you ask. Personally, if the intention is not harmful I see nothing wrong. Horary is one way our friends "up there" communicate with us. It is totally legitimate to ask about any relationship we feel is relevant to our lives or anybody else's lives, specially the lives of those we love.
StarzQ wrote:Would she take the 1st house of I did that? Both of them the 7th? Would she get Venus?
It depends on the question. If you are definitely not part of the scenario and he is the main connecting point to the chart then she would take house 1. If the scenario involves the three of you then we have to rely on receptions to determine the correct significators. You might take the Moon, for example. The chart would guide the astrologer.
--
Felipe Oliveira
http://traditionalmedicalastrology.org
http://medicalastrologer.net