Will We Be Friends?

1
Image
Hello:

?Will We Be Friends??

I am hoping for some feedback on this horary, some of which I think I understand and some of which has me flummoxed.

That which I think I understand (fingers crossed):

I judged the chart to be radical as the planetary hour ruler matches the ASC, which is just past three degrees. As well, there are numerous correlations to my natal chart.

Pisces rises so I am Jupiter/Libra/7, peregrine and angular. Jupiter is 11 degrees from the Sun but in a different sign so therefore not under the Sun?s beams (Lilly, CA, page 113). Cusp of 11 (friends) is Capricorn so the potential friend is Saturn/Sagittarius/9, peregrine, cadent and free of the Sun. Both planets are direct but occidental. I didn?t work out the planetary speed.

Jupiter is in the exaltation, triplicity and term of Saturn; Saturn is in the sign of Jupiter so there is strong mutual reception. The dispositor of Jupiter is Venus in its own sign Libra in 7; she has just entered the Via Combusta.

Jupiter is applying to a sextile of Saturn.

Neptune, in its own sign, conjunct the South Node, is in the first house.

Moon is in detriment in Capricorn, conjunct Pluto, in 11 and is in the sign of Saturn and term of Jupiter but also in Jupiter?s fall. The Moon is separating from a square with Venus and is applying to a trine with the Sun/Virgo/7.

That which has me flummoxed:

Is this a yes or a no?! :0). I see the applying sextile and mutual reception as extremely positive, but the lack of essential dignity and the moon?s condition and its placement in 11 as negative. The condition of the first house doesn?t seem very positive to me either with the South Node there and Neptune strong.

As well, does either Jupiter or Saturn have some essential dignity because of reception and do the accidental fortitudes that both significators have outweigh the peregrine-ness of them? If not, how to interpret the lack of dignity combined with the positive applying aspect and mutual reception? This is the thing that really confuses me. There was a previous thread where someone gave this explanation for the different influences:

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=952

1. Dignity shows the power to act
2. Reception shows the inclination to act
3. Aspect shows the occasion to act

If that is correct then the occasion and the inclination are there but not the power, so it won?t happen. We?ll simply stare at each other wistfully across a crowded room? :0P

Also, if Venus gives strength to Jupiter, does it also then extend strength to Saturn via Jupiter (Saturn's dispositor)? Does the Via Combusta change the interpretation or is it only used for the Moon?

Any feedback much appreciated.


:lala :lala :lala

Re: Will We Be Friends?

2
moonbright wrote: Pisces rises so I am Jupiter/Libra/7, peregrine and angular. Jupiter is 11 degrees from the Sun but in a different sign so therefore not under the Sun?s beams (Lilly, CA, page 113). Cusp of 11 (friends) is Capricorn so the potential friend is Saturn/Sagittarius/9, peregrine, cadent and free of the Sun. Both planets are direct but occidental. I didn?t work out the planetary speed.
Hello Moonbright,

Jupiter being within the orb of the Sun IS under the sunbeams, because the requirement of the planet's being in the same sign as the Sun, given in the definition of the combustion, is not repeated in the definition of a planet's being under the sunbeams. See Lilly, CA, page 113.

3
Johannes, are you trying to start an argument? :D

I spent the better part of last evening reading the "Combustion" thread - what a can of worms the whole out-of-sign stuff is: every answer from "yes, it is under the beams" to "no, Jupiter cannot be combust". :???: When I first cast this chart, I thought: at last! A straightforward horary! Now I'm laughing at my own naivete :P .

Oh well, I guess I'll find out sooner or later whether it will come to pass.

Enjoy the weekend.



:lala

4
Moonbright

I'm not sure many agree with Lilly's technical definition of combustion needing to be in the same sign - most discount this and believe that combustion is an astrological description/understanding of an astronomical feature - namely that a planet's light is indeed subsumed by that of the Sun and it undergoes a transitional phase in which it will be cleansed and emerge as new from the sun at a later date, and so has less accidental fortitude as combustion takes hold.

Can I ask why you want to be friends with this person, and if they are a potential love interest or someone you have feelings for or even a crush? It's unusual to ask if you will be friends with someone unless you ultimately are hoping that this friendship will lead to something more beneficial to you in some manner - such as a good business contact, someone you are attracted to or something else of that nature.
"The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing" - Socrates

https://heavenlysphere.com/

5
Which planet rules the other person in question? His or her relationship to you, or their profession, may determine what house the quesited belongs in. Or is it the generic "other person" house, house 7, that you are using?

If I were the one asking this question, I'd look and see how much the two significators "like" each other; if they are in mutual reception, or in good aspect, or if there is a planet translating light between them. I would also look to the Moon to see what will happen. But aspects and reception between the two significators would be most convincing to me. Combustion would mean that person has a hard time seeing what's going on or just won't/can't do anything. But I defer to others who have more experience and knowledge.

6
Thanks Paul and Astrolabus.

I chose to ask about being friends and used the 11th house because although my first thought was potential romance, I'm now pretty sure he's gay. We haven't been introduced but he is a quasi-public figure who has popped up in my life a few times now. We have some common interests so I would still be interested in being friends if "it's meant to be".

I'm not intending to "pursue" him, just interested in why he keeps appearing in my life.

That, and, I suppose, my natal Jupiter is in 11, so there's no such thing as too many friends. :)

Thanks.

7
The Moon in house 11 shows your interest in friendship with him. Saturn lord of house 11 square Neptune in house 1 tells me you idealize this or him somewhat. I'm assigning him to house 7 as "the other person." So that makes him Mercury in Virgo and you are Jupiter in Libra. There is no major aspect and no reception between them. I do see the Moon in house 11 making a trine to Mercury. You are sure to cross paths with this person again. I don't see anything like deep or lasting friendship.

I have no idea what Mars and Saturn in MC could mean though.

8
moonbright wrote:Johannes, are you trying to start an argument? :D

I spent the better part of last evening reading the "Combustion" thread - what a can of worms the whole out-of-sign stuff is: every answer from "yes, it is under the beams" to "no, Jupiter cannot be combust". :???: When I first cast this chart, I thought: at last! A straightforward horary! Now I'm laughing at my own naivete :P .

Oh well, I guess I'll find out sooner or later whether it will come to pass.

Enjoy the weekend.



:lala
Moonbright,
sorry you studied an entangling thread instead of simply rereading Lilly's page 113 to verify my correction of your misunderstanding his definition.

Not finding your significators Jupiter and the Moon in any of the quesited's own dignities, your real interest in this man cannot be of any importance for you. Please correct me, if I'm wrong, because Frawley's claim of receptions being testimonies of personal 'interest' are interesting enough in my opinion to be studied.

By the way his Mercury is postioned in the dertiment of your Jupiter, so he does not have the least interest in your person, expressed with caution.

If there would be a real need for you to have contact with this man, it could technically have been by the sun, collecting the light first of your Moon, and then of his Mercury in Retrogradation. Mercury, lord of the 7th would signify him as an acquaintance of yours, and an acquaintanceship seems to be the most proper solution in this situation. But even this possibility is prohibited by Mars and his square that is reached by the Sun before he, the Sun, can conjoin with Mercury.

But if you err about his sexual inclinations, there is the translation of the light of your Venus to his Sun by the Moon, mentioned by you in the beginning, and then the Sun would be in the triplicity of Venus . . .

9
Thanks Astrolabus.

I'm not sure about the assigning of the significator to the 7th house. I had thought about that before casting the chart but because there seems no chance of romance I then reconsidered and chose the 11th. It seemed more precise to me and still does.

And then last night I was reading CA again and came across this (page 459):
CHAP. LXXXVIII.

Of the agreeing of Friends.

If one aske, If he shall joyne, and be at Concord and Unity with his Friend, or not? behold the Lord of the ascendant and the Moon, if you find them applying to the Lord of the 11th house, say they shall both joyne and agree together; if the application be by Sextile or Trine they shall agree and joyne together with respect, desire, joy and love:but if the application be by Square or Opposition, in their joyning there shall be brawling and strife, and the one shall be irksome to the other; and note, that the application which is by Opposition, is worse then that which is by Square.
Now whether that means a friend you already have but not someone you don't know, I don't know.

There is also this (page 458):
If a man shall have the thing hoped for?

Behold if there be any good aspect between the Lord of the ascendant and the 11th, or Reception or translation of light, or that the Lord of the 11th in the ascendant: all or any of these gives hope of obtaining the same. If there be none of those, behold Moon, and if she be not qualified with the Lord of the 11th, aforesaid, judge the contrary,

Both of these quotes are from the section on the 11th house.
So, I'm still of the opinion that the 11th is the proper house. This doesn't mean it will happen though, from what I understand, as both significators are essentially debilitated.

One of the things that I had asked about was whether the mutual reception added any dignity to the significators. I looked up CA online and it's more clear than the book is: there's only more dignity if the mutual reception is of a similar kind - by sign and sign or exaltation and exaltation, so that doesn't help at all.

Thanks again for your feedback.
:)

10
Thanks Johannes. :)
sorry you studied an entangling thread instead of simply rereading Lilly's page 113 to verify my correction of your misunderstanding his definition.
I did read Lilly as well. I just thought I'd see what other people were saying just to confuse myself :D .

I am interested in being friends with him, if he's interested or able to. I haven't read Frawley but I find what I've read about his explanations of reception online to be confusing; I guess I find the more traditional explanation easier to understand. I had read a few threads about reception when I was trying to figure out the chart.

Thanks very much for your feedback.

:)

11
I wanted to post a little bit more as I?ve done some more work to try and interpret this chart and I think there are some interesting things here.

I had asked about Venus in the Via Combusta and Deborah Houlding has stated that it concerns ?fear and hidden matters?. I don?t know how to interpret that in terms of this chart, however. Venus should lend some dignity to Jupiter as its dispositor because she?s in her domicile but I am still unaware of whether any benefit is extended to Saturn because of it being in Jupiter?s house.


Link to horary where Deborah Houlding interprets the Via Combusta:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/leave_husband.html


I?m continuing to use the 11th house for the quesited?s signification as I think the physical description for Saturn fits him: pale complexion with dark eyes and hair; and at the time the question was posed he was participating in a sporting competition in another country: 9th house (foreign country) ruled by Mars (sports competition).

So there is an applying sextile and good mutual reception between the significators (although Jupiter is under the beams and both are peregrine) but I kept thinking that there was something else that I was missing. Finally I realized that Jupiter was conjunct Mercury, retrograde, and I hadn?t looked for any interpretation of that. On page 185 of Christian Astrology it says:
Moreover, it the Significator of the Querent, or thing sought after, or Moon, or Planet to whom she is joyned, whether she is a Significatrix, or hath participation in the Question, be joyned to an unfortunate Planet, viz. Retrograde, Combust, Cadent, then observe if Reception intervene; which if therebe, it signifies the perfection of the matter, though with wearinesse and much solicitation: If no reception be, the matter will come to nothing, though there have been much probability of its performance.
There is no reception between Jupiter and Mercury.


However, it turns out there is another interpretation for that Mercury that I should have looked for when I first cast the chart; in the Considerations Before Judgement (page 122) Lilly states:
You must also be wary, when in any question propounded you find the Cusp of the seventh house afflicted, or the Lord of that house Retrograde, or impedited, and the matter at that time not concerning the seventh house, but belonging to any other house, it?s an argument the judgment of the Astrologer?s will give small content, or any thing please the Querent; for the seventh house generally hath signification of the Artist.
And then on page 123:
The Lord of the 7th unfortunate, or in his fall, or Terms of the Infortunes, the Artist shall scarce give a solid judgment.

Interestingly though, I read an article by Olivia Barclay in which she said that the South Node in the first house will signify a mark on the querant in the area represented by the sign. (I?m guessing that this is probably in CA but I don?t know where) Pisces rules the feet and ankles and sure enough, during the time that I was trying to interpret this chart I developed a large red welt just above my left ankle due to my sock fraying at the top and the elastic coming in contact with my skin (I?m allergic to rubber).

And, I?m pretty sure Uranus, retrograde in the second and moving back into the first, was just a reminder from the Universe that my electricity bill was overdue, due to an email notification mixup. :0)

Cheers.

:)