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The US Presidential election of 2016
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Mjacob



Joined: 17 Nov 2011
Posts: 412
Location: Kent - England

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember the die is cast - I think said by Julius Caesar but my Garcon de Lycee French needed a little help with Anouilh !

HRC could win hands down but I bet there will be deniers just like the remainers here but let us not pursue that now
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Aurelia



Joined: 30 Oct 2016
Posts: 16

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is spinning out of control, totally... Now Assange claims HC and the ISIS are funded by the same money, and at the same time officials are warning about possible terror attack in several cities the day before the election... Chance to see if "anaretic" is stronger than "exalted" (Mars) at the time, and to learn from it, whatever happpens...
Him entering Aquarius the next morning does seem like a bright outcome.... Or will it bring more internet wars?
Huh.
At this point I sincerely hope none of the astrology is true and nothing happens except a bit of regular election related hysteria, as usual...
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WooWoo



Joined: 05 Apr 2013
Posts: 1476

Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2016 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Folks,

Just thought I'd throw in my comments from my very high level Top Down approach.

I can't see anything just now that points to Trump or Clinton. I'm stumped on the Saturn/ Uranus trine, and then Jupiter's influence on those two. And the slow moving nature of all those aspects.

I'd say Trump if I have to choose, from the Saturn Uranus trine. A constrained whackiness that gets stymied in 2018 as Uranus ingresses into Taurus.

However, my point is the next President doesn't take office till the 20th Jan, and therefore that's where much analysis should be focused.

Similarly that's why the BREXIT call was so hard because of course it was just an advisory non-binding mutter, unfortunately, taken as we were coming out of a very negative longish run of aspects.

As to when, or when NOT, BREXIT might happen and therefore the focus of analysis nearly impossible at the time to tell.

Even now where would you try to focus with so much up in the air?

H

PS Mars's transit into Aquarius on Wednesday 9th Nov I think pushes towards Trump too.
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Aurelia



Joined: 30 Oct 2016
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Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right, Ura trine Sat does seem to indicate what you are saying Rocko... Slow moving planets are to be examined to get bigger picture of current world's events as nothing happens overnight in world's affairs...
But since here we have two real people's aspirations on stake, I think it would be appropriate to check what's going on in candidates charts as well...
I'm very unhappy about not having TOB for HC for it disables me to use my usual approach which considers houses and fast moving planets in the first place...
So what we have for HC is TSun conj her NVenus, but no idea where in her chart does it occure... Personally - I don't know what to think of that, unless the chart with NVenus being in 12th is correct one and now that TSun is shining on it - three female pop singers performed and publicly alligned with her (Perry, Beyonce, J-Lo...). It is hard for me to imagine that support of three female superstars was actually a "hidden enemy" as Venus in 12th usually suggests...?
And for Trump, on the election day we have Moon entering his 7th house, which might indicate some sort of engaging with the masses... In terms of persuading him to work for his cause, aka "make partnership with him".
On the other hand, when we are about mass behaviour - HC's NNeptune is conjunct TJupiter... Even though I don't know where does it happen in her chart, it does seem to indicate recent events with her "murky side" being brought to the light and was possibly exagerated (Jupiter "the expander" of things)...But maybe that's not the case - I'm looking forward to see how that issues develop in the future... Will they dissapear once TJup is away from her NNeptune? We have almost a full year before that happens...
Oh, and since I'm chronic optimist - I'm thinking maybe NNep conj TJup mght indicate high ideals of the native being brought to light with Jup transit as well Wink
Any thoughts?
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Mjacob



Joined: 17 Nov 2011
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Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We can indeed wait until the inaugaration to assess how the new incumbent president fares and that is the usual method but we can use ingress charts for this

My chart for Washington DC has 12 degrees 2' of scorpio rising slightly different from another chart with the 11th degree asc
MC is 20 leo so the new president is the sun and Luna co-significator.
We start from the idea that for kings the MC is the east so H9 as 12th from 10th is house of enemies and is cancer so let us use Jupiter as significator. Other sources simply state that H9 is enemies of rulers as opposition is likely to come from people of similar rank. The people do not have another vote
The sun is 11th house conjoined to Jupiter so fortunate
The moon in 19 gemini received by dignified but retro mercury but she next applies to oppose Mars so the people will turn against their new president
Edit 16Nov: Mercury also breaks the enclosure of the Moon by the malefics and receives her albeit by a challenging Square. He stations though so it could be that Trump finds his actions will be limited and indeed we already see that he must compromise on enforcing some of his outlandish election promises
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Last edited by Mjacob on Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:44 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Mjacob



Joined: 17 Nov 2011
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Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reading Ian Cowie in the Sunday Times on the prospects of a Trump victory thatwill be bad for the markets
Fidelity International fund managers point out that Democrat presidents tend to oversee Market rises and the chart placements of Jupiter and Saturn look on first glance to indicate prosperity
JP Morgan remind us as Mark did earlier in this subject that the Senate and the House of represetatives can moderate presintial plans
The president's rule must be interpreted with this in mind and cannot stand alone as either Trump or HRC
Will look again at the chart on that criterion
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Aurelia



Joined: 30 Oct 2016
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Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've just read Mark's locked thread predicting HC victory... So I'm going to reply here, having in mind Rocko's insight aboutUra trine Jup effect:
It seems contemporary astrologers easily lose themselves in numerous techniques and neglect the basics = obvious...
The same thing happens in the other astro forum from which I was banned until Nov 10th "for writing against HC" (??!! I am not a rude nor stupid person and am even professionally educated how NOT to offend people in writing). Anyhow: people often want something to happen and then look for some sort of "astrological excuse" in various obscure techniques (not saying the same happened to Marc, but it is symptomatic for today's astro community.
(Oh and I do not intend to go back to that other forum as I feel deeply offended by mod's attitude)
Will write more after the kids are in bed
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Lunlumo



Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 300
Location: Münster, Germany

Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 3:07 pm    Post subject: Predictions .... Reply with quote

The majority of the astrologers in the two forums I'm familiar with over here in Germany predicted Trump's victory, the last prediction (yesterday afternoon) was based on a horary chart.
I'm certainly NOT going to say there were better astrologers - that would be nonsense.
But I do feel that a number of astrologers fell victim to wishful thinking:
"What must not be will not be."

In case that horary chart might interest you: http://www.astrologisch.eu/t1174f8-Allerletzte-Frage-Clinton-oder-Trump.html#msg9320

Nov 8, 9:18 Central European Time, Konstanz (Constance),
Clinton being the favourite of the person asking.


LL
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Aurelia



Joined: 30 Oct 2016
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Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank Gd for Goigle Trabslate, Lun, thank you for the link, very interesting read Smile
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Vicki



Joined: 14 Aug 2012
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Location: Nottingham U.K.

Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting post Lunlumo.

Otherwise I've moved my post from the locked thread to here and I would just say that in view of what Lunlumo says my comments would mainly apply to those astrologers with English as their first language ! :-

I have been under the impression ( rightly or wrongly) that there were some astrologers who wanted Hillary Clinton to win and then set about proving it astrologically, which is surely the wrong way round.

It happened with at least one astrologer during the UK referendum who was urging everyone to vote Remain and who said he could prove that the Remain camp would win.

Donald Trump is such a hate figure that ,like voters talking to the pollsters, some astrologers may have been reluctant to come out for a Trump win even if they thought they saw it, for fear of going against the general consensus amongst astrologers. Voters keep quiet and so do some astrologers maybe.

There is such a thing as a "shoot the messenger" syndrome which may apply here. Perhaps some felt very reluctant to come forward for fear of being considered a Trump supporter when in fact they might have been trying to be impartial. I know that I felt there to be a very pro Hillary Clinton bias on this thread (some may disagree) and at times it seemed as though there was no other candidate, as though Donald Trump was a complete irrelevance no right minded person could ever vote for.

Similarly those in the UK referendum in June who voted for Brexit were labelled as ill educated and working class. Remain was the vote for right minded people only.

A similar thing happened in the 1992 UK election. Most, if not all astrologers at the time, I clearly remember, were calling a Neil Kinnock Labour win and the rest is history. Voters then dare not declare to the pollsters that they were voting for John Major and maybe astrologers, being only human, felt the same way.

I would just say that I am dismayed for the science of astrology that there seems to have been so much bias and lack of impartiality. This is only my very personal impression and many may disagree. I do not wish to offend anyone.
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Deb
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Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amongst the astrologers who predicted success for Trump, siderealists should note the article by Kenneth Bowser - published in May this year.

The 2016 Presidential Election: Does Trump Have a Winning Hand?
https://www.facebook.com/notes/kenneth-bowser/the-2016-presidential-election-does-trump-have-a-winning-hand/682821141855808/

Bowser explores Trumps chart from the sidereal angle and did not favour Trump personally. Hence I'm picking out a couple of comments to illustrate his judgement, but really recommending those interested to read the piece in full:

"To my surprise and dismay he has what looks, from the point of view of astrological symbolism, like a winning hand."

"Unfortunately, I think he will be elected and that his administration will be a debacle for the reasons that I will cite, but in the near term, his symbolism is remarkably good."
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the record, and perhaps to offer some small comfort to the many U.S. astrologers who predicted a win for Hillary Clinton, as of this morning she appears to be winning the popular vote by a million or more votes according to NBC News. However the electoral college count gave Donald Trump the election. This is similar to what happened in 2000 when Al Gore got the popular vote, but George Bush had the electoral vote.

Naturally (as befitting Trump's prominent Mars) there is already a new clamor among Democrats asking to abolish the electoral college. Ironically, Trump himself has been highly critical of the electoral collage in the past, calling it a "travesty" and a "disaster for a democracy." (6 November 2012)

Yet, without the electoral college, Trump would not be president elect in 2016. This is the blessing of the Moon partile conjunct natal Jupiter in Trump's current solar return as emphasized by siderealist Kenneth Bowser. I had noted the conjunction myself, but didn't give it the emphasis that Kenneth did. Ken Bowser is a crackerjack technician with a great deal of experience. No one can beat him.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/2016-election-day/electoral-college-lesson-more-voters-chose-hillary-clinton-trump-will-n681701
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waybread



Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While the Electoral College vote tally on election night is decisive, the Electoral College was actually designed in the Constitution as a check and balance against a raw popular vote that might be swayed by mob rule. This year it will meet on December 19, "the first Monday after the second Wednesday in December."

I would imagine a .000000001% chance that the Electoral College could actually go for Clinton (who is 280,000 popular votes up nationally;) with a somewhat greater chance (.00001) that the Electoral College might vote for vote for Mike Pence. However, there is a petition now afoot to get them to decline to confirm Trump.

Moreover, at the end of the month, Trump will probably have to stand trial for fraud concerning in his failed Trump University in two class action lawsuits and one NY state Attorney General lawsuit. His lawyers have filled for a delay and Trump believes he will prevail. But Trump is nothing if not the candidate of the unexpected.

All you prognosticators who predicted a Clinton victory-- it's not over till its over.
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Waybread wrote:
Quote:
However, there is a petition now afoot to get them to decline to confirm Trump.

Yes, and there are "He's not my president!" protest groups in a number of cities. Apparently this has never happened after an election before. It wouldn't be a bad idea to check out the January 6 date when electorial votes are read in Congress and certified.

There is the concept of the "faithless elector" that could be applied, a very long shot, of course. On January 6 we do have Pluto with the Sun as the point of the t-square in the Uranus-Jupiter opposition with the Moon just recently separated from Uranus. Sun on January 6 is opposite the USA 4 July 1776 Sun:

22 Gem 44 USA 6:30 PM Sun
22 Sag 27 Sun 6 Jan 2017, 9 AM
23 Sag 08 Pluto 6 Jan 2017, 9 AM

(Krishnamurti degrees since the tropical orbs would be different.)

This thread is very long. It might be interesting to begin a thread to discuss the period leading up to the inauguration. Already on the Solunars forum there has been some discussion on whether the vote might possibly be changed. This may be because so very many astrologers and psychics have seen Hillary Clinton being inaugurated. From many sources we are hearing, "It's not over yet."
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Mjacob



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Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

waybread wrote:




Moreover, at the end of the month, Trump will probably have to stand trial for fraud concerning in his failed Trump University in two class action lawsuits and one NY state Attorney General lawsuit. His lawyers have filled for a delay and Trump believes he will prevail. But Trump is nothing if not the candidate of the unexpected.

All you prognosticators who predicted a Clinton victory-- it's not over till its over.

When HRC looked like the winner it was said that incumbent presidents were immune to criminal prosecution. If that is so then it is over is it not?
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