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UK ingress charts 2015 & 2016
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Mjacob



Joined: 17 Nov 2011
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Location: Kent - England

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:49 pm    Post subject: UK ingress charts 2015 & 2016 Reply with quote

It is time to both look back at the UK ingress chart for this year as discussed in the UK general election and look forward to next year when we have Mars on the MC
This will provide an opportunity to practice the old techniques as recently translated or for modern astrologers to provide their input
I will try again to post the charts later on
Matthew











but I am struggling to do so
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Mjacob



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Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking at the 2016 ingress we see an angular Mars on the midheaven but without essential dignity though in sect. The luminary of sect is in the 7th sign and whilst further from the actual descendent degree than Mars is from the MC perhaps the Moon could be ruler of the year as I cannot see that she is pushing power to anything optimal

With Saturn sharing a house with Mars it does not look good for rulers of the country

It may be best to count Pisces as the second house rather then treating it as first intercepted. There is an interesting opposition and also the nodal axis is there too.

Abu Mashar states that the tail in Pisces means moving the wealthy from there homes and Jupiter in Virgo means Bearing arms against the wealthy.

I note that Jeremy Corbyn is favourite to be the next Labour party leader so it looks quite likely anyway

Matthew

AOW II p 335 & p 346
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james_m



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Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi matthew,

thanks for posting a chart.. aq rising - fixed sign, so it is good for the whole year.. i think the dominant feature of the chart is the jupiter/saturn square which is not considered favourable according to what i have read on this config..

these aries ingress charts are often considered in context of the bigger cycle of jupiter/saturn conjunctions as well.. as i understand it, a chart would be done for the ju/sat conjunction, but they could never get the actual ascendant for them as it was too hard to pinpoint what it was previously.. they would thus use the new moon or full moon prior to the aries ingress as a helpful consideration for it all as well.. today we can get the ascendant for the ju/sa conjunctions.. if you do a chart for may 28 2000 - london uk, 5:03pm, you can get a 26 libra ascendant with the jupiter/saturn conjunction very close to exact.. this puts the duo in the 8th sign/house of taurus.. there are some interesting cross overs in the charts which i won't go into other then to point out mars at 17 gemini 13 which hits on the jupiter/saturn square in the 2016 aries chart..

according to what i have read having mars in the same sign as saturn in the 2016 aries ingress isn't favourable, even if it doesn't hit by an exact aspect... as in any square - things are at cross purposes.. in this example perhaps the leadership as represented by saturn is not in sync with the business or religious leaders and this is captured in the jupiter/saturn square.. saturn rules the ascendant, but jupiter rules the midheaven and saturn which lands in jupiters sign along with mars.. jupiter is in the 8th.. again one wonders how the business/financial interests are in conflict with whatever is represented by saturn in this chart..

i think there are a few different ways to think of the ruler of the chart, but i can see how the moon in leo in the 7th has some strength, as does saturn in the 11th, close to the advanced midheaven in the same sign and as ruler of the ascendant... saturn and moon are in trine with each other.. the moon rules over the 6th house and would put emphasis on this house if it is given rulership over the year.. saturn on the other hand rules the 12th and 1st... not sure what the basis for deciding which is stronger, although by house using whole signs - the 7th is stronger then the 11th, the 10th is considered much stronger then the 7th which is how some astrologers would also interpret saturns position to be.. perhaps one could even make an argument for mars ruling the chart given it's position in a nocturnal chart so close to the midheaven degree.. i think that might be my position here.. mars rules the 10th and 3rd by whole sign houses..

as i don't follow things in the uk, it is difficult for me to know how any of this would play out as well!!! i wonder when the issue of joining the eu is happening for britain? that would be a huge issue having great bearing on the finances of the uk switching over to the euro... that is a political hot potato for today! perhaps this is the divide represented in the chart with saturn and jupiter? is mars the tie breaker here pushing for a go it alone and stay out of the euro vote? i wonder..
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james_m



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Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

apparently, not that they could get the ascendant in the jupiter-saturn conjunctions, but they would profect the chart as well.. if you do this for the 2000 ju-sa conj - presently we are in cap rising or saturn ruled profection year and another one next year for london uk.. i think you use that as a guide for what to look at and consider more significant in the aries ingress chart... i suppose one could do a solar return off a jupiter- saturn conjunction chart too, although i haven't read about that yet..

also something i found interesting in reading is the idea that those syzygies were only used based on the fact they couldn't get the ascendant for the ju/sa conjunctions, or now that i think about it - maybe it was hard to get the ascendant for the aries ingress charts too - maybe that was what i was reading about from the deep past.. i am presently reading ibn ezra's 'the book of the world' which is abraham ibn ezras book on mundane astrology..
http://www.brill.com/abraham-ibn-ezra-book-world
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Mjacob



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Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi James - glad that you have time to contribute- particularly your suggestions about the context of the conjunction.
In the case of chart ruler Saturn could well be considered and I would not argue against appointing him over the Moon. Though Saturn and Mars are not close by degree they are assembling in the same sign and Antares is close too. Both are slowing down as they approach station
The Moon is applying away from them in the seventh and I am thinking of this as signifying diplomacy. The PM David Cameron has stated that he seeks EU reform before a referendum by 2017 to decide whether the UK remains a member
Will come back later later in more detail
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james_m



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Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

here is another way to think of the differences between the 2015 and 2016..

it has to do with how the moon or ascendant connect with the benefics or malefics... in the 2015 ingress - moon and sun are trine jupiter by sign and the ascendant is in the opposite sign to venus.. i consider these minor details beneficial.. on the other hand 2016 aries ingress - moon and sun connect by trine to the malefics saturn and mars.. there is no connection to the moon or sun or ascendant to the benefics venus and jupiter which suggests 2016 is a less positive year on this simple level.. well, the 2015 aries ingress sun and moon also connect via conjunct and trine to the malefics mars and saturn too, so it is a mixed bag, but overall although the moon is in a better position in the 2016 chart - waxing trine sun as opposed to the new moon in the 2015 chart - overall it isn't as positive from this angle i offer..

the square of mars to venus in the 2016 aries ingress lessens the hardness of mars on the midheaven degree.. that is a positive, even if it is by square..

it's another way to consider these ingress charts that i am sure others are aware of.. the moon and the ascendant seems to say something about the general populace or public.. if they have no contact with the benefics - it is less positive on this level.. 2016 looks less appealing then 2015 from this angle..

i guess one could go into the strength and nature of the ruler of each chart. in the 2015 chart i think mercury is placed in the best position, but not especially strong by sign, although my house and in the midheaven angle by opposition is brought to the fore and in a better position.. mars is strong by sign, but not by house position...

i think there are different methods for arriving at rulership of a chart and not all astrologers agree on this.. i think it is a toss up for mars or saturn ruling the 2016 aries ingress.. saturn is just turning retro in the 2016 ingress so maybe on the basis of that it would be less of a candidate to rule over the chart.. also mars rules the sun which in turn rules over the moon -so has some strength from this angle as well.. i guess mars rules the 2016 ingress chart.. working it out as i type, lol...
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Mjacob



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Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



Here is a bigger chart in WSH

In his intro to AOW II on the subject of Lord of the year Ben Dykes says most charts are not so clear ( as his example) but perhaps we can agree on the poor state of the Moon in 2016. She applies away from Saturn but as soon as she moves to Virgo she is up against Mars

Saturn is hardly assisted by a square to Jupiter

My telephone says someone is replying as I write
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james_m



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Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

that's great!

another way of looking at these charts is what houses do the planets that are in the angular houses rule? in this 2016 chart - moon rules the 6th while saturn rules the 12th and 1st... if you consider mars or saturn as angular - which i do - mars rules the natural 10th and 3rd while being exalted in the 12th..

in the 2015 ingress - mercury in the natural 5th is in the 4th thanks the advanced midheaven in the 11th.. it rules over the 8th and 11th, but in this case the midheaven also lands in the 11th... that it is in the 4th perhaps speaks to the issue of national identity based off the history of the uk.. this idea that scotland wants to separate must weigh heavily on the political scene in the uk and to a certain extent on the minds of a number of people for different reasons..

i think the moon in an angle in the 2016 aries ingress but ruling over the 6th isn't as good.. maybe health care or labour issues for the uk will be brought to the fore? just offering up some ideas...
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Mjacob



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Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WSH or not I agree that Saturn stays angular. I am certainly thinking in the terms of revising the Scotland issue in the 2015 to see again the context in 2016
For 2016 we could give house one to the people of England and house two to the Scots. It is not usual but there is a precedent somewhere
Have the rest of a Ben Dykes audio lecture to listen to so might gets some tips there
Matthew
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james_m



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Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

matthew - the ingress charts will be much the same whether set to london, or edinburgh... i think the relationship between these 2 countries would be described more along 3rd house lines.. neighbours - 3rd house.. scotland would be represented by the brits as 3rd house in the london chart and vice versa in an edinburgh chart.. what do you think?

my thinking is that it depends on who is considering the question/topic...
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Mjacob



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Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We had the same prob last time with Edinburgh and London and I seem to remember something similar with the world war charts of the last century. I think that the UK chart at London counts for both and I will look again to justify my idea that the second house could serve for Scotland. Normally the second house and eighth axis is money and other people's money which is relevant in that England taxpayers pay more into the exchequer whilst Scotland take more out
Matthew
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cor scorpii



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Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In 2016. chart for GB Saturn is LOY as it rules the ascendant and has authority/testimony by triplicity in the 10th.
It's (evil) influence is even more accentuated especially if one bears in mind that Saturn's apogee (deferent) is in the 25th degree of Sagittarius - this is no "ordinary" Saturn. It is also in a partile conjunction to the Lot of Battle in a fire sign (Mars in the same fiery sign with the Lot is a really bad omen!) all the while Jupiter, the significator of the king, attacks it by a partile applying square out of the malefic 8th.

Mars is on the cusp of the MC, ruling the 9th, which signifies the enemies of the king and the exalted Sun pushes management and power to it by trine (with mutual reception) while ruling the 7th of the "open" enemies.

A radical change in the nature/form of the government, which includes force or even a (multiple) assassination attempts helped/instigated/empowered by the enemies of the state who are driven by/hidden behind 'religious' issues (the Sun comes from the 3rd). People are going to "fight" the king, resist and rebel against the authority. Hard/harsh times for the ruler(s).

Just some thoughts...

Regards,
Goran
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Mjacob



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Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your thoughts Goran
Have not found time today to reply fully but for now am willing to accept your judgement on Saturn as Lord of Year and will look into migrating to some other country
Matthew

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james_m



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Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

saturn is the malefic of the oposite sect to the chart as well...

goran - thanks for your comments.. it will be interesting to see how 2016 plays out given your strong position on the nature of the chart.. a good bit of it seems to hinge on the use of a particular lot.. lots went in and out of use thru astrology as not all astrologers were convinced of their value..
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Phantastikon



Joined: 09 May 2015
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Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could there be something perhaps in both Saturn and Jupiter being in the bounds of Venus, and Venus also in her own bound? I've been reading/learning more about the bounds, how they might confine or possibly define the characters or setting. If we take her basic nature as that of unifying and uniting, and Saturn and Jupiter are not co-operating in this matter, there could be discord regarding unification in the UK because Venus rules 4th whole sign house. Or it could also be the EU as Venus rules 9th WSH. Monetary unification. All of this is happening in mutable signs, perhaps referendum and Yes/No vote.

Could this also pan out in another way affecting the housing market and high property prices because it is exalted in 2nd ruling 4th. Venus may only be as good as its ruler, and the outcome of Jupiter in detriment in 8th may not be so pleasant for our money or the banks across the 2nd/8th axis with Mercury also in detriment. Although there is reception. Venus in 2nd/Pisces seems a bit illusory through decadence perhaps?

Could we say Saturn is overcoming Venus, could Moon also be seen as applying to square Mars which seems closer than a separating trine. If so that could be public sector cuts as Moon rules 6th/services and signifies the common people and Mars is cutting/severing in action on MC. Again just some ideas!
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