Greece

2
Fleur:

The mundane chart for Greece is in dispute. One (Greek) source gives the date as
1 January 1822 Old Style

And the place as
Nea Epidauros, 37N40, 23E07

To make matters worse, the time at which Greece declared independence on 1 January is unknown ? though one source gives 9.25 am

But putting aside the country's 'nativity', I am surprised that no one on the forum, other than yourself, has asked about the future of Greece. The lunation chart for 16 June is dire in a general sense, with the sysygy in conjunction with Mars. Greece's financial problems affect many countries other than Greece. Also, this lunation covers the beach massacre in Tunisia - another event having repercussions beyond Tunisia itself.

However, Greece is particularly affected by the 16 June lunation, which is why attention is focused there.

Melissa

3
I'm using the 1974 chart of the Greek democracy (Campion) - the Lot of Debt according to Valens is at 12 deg 38 Cancer. The Ascendant of this Greece chart is 13 Cancer. Paulus' Lot of Debtor is at 13 deg 38 Cancer.

And of course transit Sun hit 13 Cancer today, and prog. Moon is right on MC.

4
hi fleur and others,

great topic and i would like to participate, but have been busy! also, i have a dual boot computer and am now mostly running ubuntu instead of windows, but i can't figure out how to post charts which i think has something to do with running ubuntu in combo with having gotten solar fire to run on it by using wine.. when i figure out how to post charts, i will be back to normal..

however, here are some charts that others can post or discuss and consider..

marjorie orr has a chart for tsipras inauguration - january 12 2015 - 2:03 pm - athens... i get a chart with 5 gemini 42 rising for this time..

the chart i have on my computer for european central bank - ecb is june 1 1998, midnight - frankfurt.. i have 16 capricorn 56 rising on this chart.

the chart i have for the euro currency is jan 1 2002 - midnight - 2 libra 56 rising also set for frankfurt..

perhaps there are some other important charts to consider, but these are some i am looking at...

if one does an 2015 aries ingress to athens - i get 15 sag 23 rising...

interestingly - the issue of finances is also one that russia has been dealing with too, thanks the political situation and etc. etc. going on.. an aries ingress 2015 to moscow will give one 11 sag 43 rising and a similar chart in some respects.. however - the midheaven in the russia 2015 ingress highlights mars/uranus (mars is 5/12 house ruler) whereas the athens ingress chart gives a midheaven of 3 libra about on the midpoint of the sun/moon conjunction in early aries.. the sun and moon rule the 9th and 8th houses in this particular chart which stands to reason given the huge focus on greece internationally at this point and on the idea of others money or resources - an 8th house topic - and how some banks (elites?) aren't too happy with how greece is behaving politically or financially at this point...

interesting note i picked up the other day to put the greek financial situation into a particular type of perspective -

""The money Greece owes, $370 billion, compared to the taxpayer-funded bailouts banks got...

Citigroup - Citigroup $2.513 Trillion
Morgan Stanley - $2.041 Trillion
Merrill Lynch - $1.949 Trillion
Bank of America - $1.344 Trilliom
Barclays PLC - $868 Billion
Bear Sterns - $853 B
Goldman Sachs - $814 B
Royal Bank of Scotland - $541 B
JP Morgan Chase $391 B
Deutche Bank - $354 B
UBS - $287 B
Credit Suisse - $262 B
Lehman Bros - $183 B
Bank of Scotland - $181 B
BNP Paribas - $175 B
Wells Fargo - $159 B
Dexia - $159 B
Wachovia - $142 B
Dresdner Bank - $135 B""

5
Although I am Greek and very much worried and tuned to everyday?s political agenda, I am indecisive on whether I want to join this topic. As much international it might be, our forum is also European, and no matter our common commitment to astrological knowledge, politics would inevitably be brought into discussion.

Having said that, my astrological comment is this:

Sunday?s referendum took place just after the precedent full moon in 9?.55? Capricorn, which I think is the second last one in tune with the Pluto-Uranus square (next December is the last one, I think). Referendum?s birthtime, (7 am) gives ASC=04Leo52? and MC=23Aries20?. Uranus at 20Aries19? is very prominent, conjunct the MC, and the Sun (chart?s dispositor) is in partile opposition to Pluto.
Many astrologers have called Pluto?s march through Capricorn as the ?unmasking?. In my opinion, both the precedent lunation and the referendum mark a time like this, when people have to ?unmask? and choose side.

As a last comment, I?d I like to add that I am worried about mercury?s joining the cardinal jam starting from tonight. Greece?s recent history is much linked to cardinal signs, and especially Cancer.
On the other hand, it?s the cardinals (sic) who make history.


Regards,

Georgia


* Previous discussion on Greece?s chart, here on the forum:

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6847
http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6420

6
james_m wrote:but i can't figure out how to post charts which i think has something to do with running ubuntu in combo with having gotten solar fire to run on it by using wine.. when i figure out how to post charts, i will be back to normal..
Hi James,

just a small tip: you can use my Charts web app to generate the chart images, then add it to some image server like postimg..

http://apps.flatangle.com/Charts/


Regards,
Jo?o Ventura

8
Geo,
Many astrologers have called Pluto?s march through Capricorn as the ?unmasking?. In my opinion, both the precedent lunation and the referendum mark a time like this, when people have to ?unmask? and choose side.
Interesting post. I agree that Pluto is the main player in this situation and seems to resonate with all the various Campion charts - in the Feb 03 1830 chart for example, Pluto is currently at the Neptune/Jupiter mid-point in the 8th house - the national debt. In the 24th July 1974 chart, Pluto is in the 7th - treaties and agreements with other nations.

There's an interesting essay by Sir John Glubb https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bagot_Glubb called 'The Fate of Empires'. In it, he analyses the life cycle of various empires (Greek, Roman and Ottoman ect) and found remarkable similarities between them all. He observed that an empire lasts for about 250 years or 10 generations - about the same time frame for a Pluto cycle. Considering this, the first and probably most important turning point in 'modern' european geo-political history was Nepoleon's defeat at the Battle of Waterloo in 1815. It was the event that led to the foundation of 'The Concert of Europe', a half-hearted attempt to create a European Federation and is what I believe to be the real origins of what we call the EU today.

In his paper, Grubb describes 6 defining 'ages' in the life span of an empire - from the early pioneers to the final conspicuous consumers who become a burden on the state -

1 - Age of Pioneers
2 - Age of Conquest
3 - Age of Commerce
4 - Age of Affluence
5 - Age of Intellect
6 - Age of Decadence

Of course, the EU isn't described as an 'empire', but to all intents and purposes it is - it just happens to go under a different name.

He concluded that the common themes in the age of decadence include an undisciplined and over extended army, a conspicuous display of wealth, a massive disparity between the rich and the poor, a desire to live off a blotted state and an obsession with sports and sex. We see all these things in society today, but the most interesting trait of all that he notes is the debasement of the currency.

It's fascinating to observe Pluto and Greece and I can't help but think that it's the first in a sequence of reforms on a much wider pan-european/US scale.
interesting note i picked up the other day to put the greek financial situation into a particular type of perspective -

""The money Greece owes, $370 billion, compared to the taxpayer-funded bailouts banks got...

Citigroup - Citigroup $2.513 Trillion
Morgan Stanley - $2.041 Trillion
Merrill Lynch - $1.949 Trillion
Bank of America - $1.344 Trilliom
Barclays PLC - $868 Billion
Bear Sterns - $853 B
Goldman Sachs - $814 B
Royal Bank of Scotland - $541 B
JP Morgan Chase $391 B
Deutche Bank - $354 B
UBS - $287 B
Credit Suisse - $262 B
Lehman Bros - $183 B
Bank of Scotland - $181 B
BNP Paribas - $175 B
Wells Fargo - $159 B
Dexia - $159 B
Wachovia - $142 B
Dresdner Bank - $135 B""
That what the banksters do - bail themselves out and let people starve. Obviously, Greece isn't 'too big to fail'.
Verum e

9
here is a link for that quote i offered yesterday, in case anyone wants to challenge it.. http://goo.gl/PvLbUR

joao - seems to work. thanks!

Image

upload pic

i originally had the wrong chart up.. this is the correct one for january 26th.. thanks again geo..

i note the ascendant ruler is mercury retro in this chart.. i believe this would define the head of gov't - tsipras as well. everything seems to revolve around getting finances from others - an 8th house theme.. the 8th ruler is saturn - falling away from the descendant.. pluto - banking oligarchy - imf, ecb and all of what i consider malevolent forces - is located in the 8th house in capricorn..this in turn is being squared by uranus - the collective - wanting something different.. that is a quick read on that square here.. the people have voted in opposition to the bailout terms, but it looks like they are going to get pushed thru regardless... pluto is in the dominant position to uranus here.. i guess one could call it the waxing square of uranus/pluto and an example in this greek drama that has polarized many..

here are my previous statements - some of which still apply.. i think one of the striking features of this chart is the mars-saturn square on the angle of the descendant.. one can include neptune as well if so inclined.. saturn is the ruler of the equal 8th and 9th, and also holds the midheaven. i interpret the financial difficulties as an inheritance of being part of the european union.. i don't know if that covers it very much, but i think the chart captures some of the angst facing tsipras and greece at this time.

perhaps more relevant is how the relationships greece and tsipras are involved with at this point have turned very challenging and conflictual - which would explain the 2 malefics aspecting and located on the descendant in this chart..

it is interesting to think of a planets actual house location verses the house a planet rules over and how one weighs these things..
Last edited by james_m on Sat Jul 11, 2015 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

11
I agree wifi Astrogooner that Greece is ruled by the EEC empire and will look at the Athens 2015 ingress chart using the ASC at Greece and its people and the MC as EEC ruler. The 7th enemies ruler is Mercury in fall and cadent. They will dither and let Greece stay in the Euro zone instead of making the Bolddecision to free her. Will add more tomorrow

Did they really think the oxi or nai vote would make the debt go away? The choice is between the Scylla of paying in Euros or the Charybdis of paying in new Drachmas

BTW - Barclays Bank paid back the money to the Fed. Banks elect competent economists to run their operations

Matthew
Last edited by Mjacob on Sun Jul 12, 2015 7:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
Matthew Goulding

12
thanks geo.. i see i got the date wrong.. it is supposed to be the 26th.. all other details are the same though... i will change the post and my commentary to reflect this.. thanks again - james