tO TURN OR NOT TO TURN

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Hi Friends,
I wonder if anyone can shed some light on something I always seem to come up against in horary charts. The background situation is my son has placed himself on a housing associations list to rent a property in the near future. The question I asked was, "Will my son get a new home?". Now the problem I face is allocating the proper significators. Which house would represent the property and which house would represent the Landlord, (the person he would do the deal with)? Frawley states that to turn the chart means that the object in a sense belongs to you personally. So would I use the turned 4th from the 5th as the potential property and the turned 7th as the Landlord. Or, and this is my instincts kicking in here, would I use the Radical 4th and 7th to represent both? My reasoning here is that both the property and the Landlord do not personally belong to my son. And we are talking about any house, not a specific one. Would I be right in assuming that if for instance there was a particular property my son was going after then it would be appropriate to use the turned 4th as the home, and to retain the Radical 7th as landlord? If anyone could shed some light on this I would be most grateful. I tend to find also that in some websites the information I read can kind of throw me off line. For instance i went into one website today and an astrologer had asked a personal question about her daughters partner obtaining a property. She used the Radical 7th to represent her daughters partner, when I would have thought it easier to have used the 11th to represent him. Or even better simply to approach the chart as in would her daughter get the new property. I get terribly confused with the whole situation and would love some very simple clear cut instructions to follow. Please help. Thank you.

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Hi Pyramidpower
Because you are asking about a property in general & not one your son is personally involved in, I.e.he is hoping to rent, then you take the radical 4th house & its ruler as significator. Radical 7th etc for the landlord.
Wishes Saturngirl :D
Enjoy what you learn,as it keeps the mind youthful!!

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Hi again Pyramidpower!
There is a very good article on 'Turning the chart' here on the horary section writyen by Deb our host, which clearly explains any confusion students may experience on this principle!
Hope this helps
SG :D
Enjoy what you learn,as it keeps the mind youthful!!

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Hello Pyramidpower,

after reading the article of Deb I doubt that in our case the identification of you, the asking mother, with your son is of such a quality equalling the described situations of pregnancy and social status in Deb's examples.

So I would stick to the turned houses here, the 5th for your son, the 11th for his potential landlord.

It would be interesting if you could post your horary question.

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Hi Johannes,
Sorry for the delay in replying. Upon closer scrutiny of my question I think you may well be right. There could be an argument for using both Radical and turned houses but if I were to really fine tune I could not lay personal identity with my sons new property. It would not alter the course of my life in any way whether my son obtained a new property or not, unlike the examples Deb used, so therefore I do not qualify to use the Radical houses. I can certainly post the chart for you. This question is another example where I find Horary has to be given all your concentration and deep thought. The heavens do not make it easy for you. I find the chart suggests that he may well obtain a new property, but there is no clear aspect involved. The potential property and the landlord are in his 1st house. His planet and the Moon are in the Radical 7th of landlord. The antiscion of Mars landlord sits at 23 degrees Cancer to which of course my sons planet will conjunct in about 7/8 degrees. I do not normally use the outer planets unless they are drawing my attention. In this chart the Moon makes a square aspect to Uranus, which can rule house moves, and Uranus is conjunct the turned 5th of my sons partner. She recently found out she was pregnant and it was on this basis they qualified to place themselves on the housing list in the first place. Anyway I found this chart interesting as it drew out the argument of which significators to use. Basic lessons I know but so very important before proceeding with any judgement. Anyway here is the chart Johannes.
Image

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With sun and mars in his house it seems like ur son will find a house and a landlord willing to rent or sell, but Sun applying to an opposition to saturn retrograde in 7th blocks it. Somebody might oppose buying or renting the house or a situation might occur that will block it. Moon void of course and early Asc. come to add more arguments against a favourable result.

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I see your point Livia, but Saturn was already separating from the landlord when the chart was cast, so whatever affected the landlord no longer does. The connection between the antiscion of Mars and Venus will still happen. And in a property chart we would rather see the landlord connect with the person rather than the property connecting. An aspect of property and person would only be a secondary signification if the chart lacked the first. Also, void of course Moon in my opinion is only significant of a waiting period involved, which would be appropriate considering he is on a waiting list. And if you check your ephemeris the next aspect Moon makes when she changes sign is a sextile to property Sun. The properties aspect with Saturn could just be descriptive as in property being located opposite a factory or official building, maybe an old peoples home or something along those lines.

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I belive we are very subjective when it is about us or people close to us. Moon void of course sais that for the moment nothing will happen, no action, nothing. Moon can make things happen when changing sign if it is in orb of aspecting a significator and in that case it won't be void of course, but I saw things happen only in that situation and the querent didn't get the house he asked about but other house, for example, as a result of moon changing sign (a change of situation). Sun (the house) applying an opposition to saturn retrograde is frustrating, blocking. The only thing that sais he can get the house is sun (the house) in your son house (radical 5th, derivated 1st).