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Understanding the mean conjunctions of the Jupiter-Saturn cycle
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Skyscript Astrology Forum

Additions: Dykes on conjunctions, Kirk Little on blind tests

 
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Deb
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Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 4130
Location: England

Posted: Thu May 21, 2015 12:38 pm    Post subject: Additions: Dykes on conjunctions, Kirk Little on blind tests Reply with quote

I have just uploaded two very interesting articles. The first is Kirk Little's insightful review of Rafael Nasser's book, Under One Sky, which was published in 2004.

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/rev_nasser.html

Although this is a not a new publication, it is a book that raises important issues that deserve examination and consideration by astrologers. It concerns the testing of astrology by "blind interpretations" of astrologers who know nothing at all about the person whose chart they are examining. This issue reflects, to some extent, on this forum's use of "mystery charts", which I have noticed lately get presented without any details to set the theme of what the mystery chart is intended to demonstrate. Yet Ptolemy (II.1), and other historical authorities are clear that an astrological review of any individual can only be reliable if the astrologer first understands "the more general considerations" that affect the birth (parents, social status, genetic influences, cultural conditioning, etc). So to me, blind tests are not only questionable for the reasons Kirk proposes - although his points are very well made - but because they conflict with a fundamental premise of astrology, that one chart does not offer a certain and reliable analysis of anything unless its context and connection to other important charts is properly understood.

The second update is a very valuable article by Benjamin Dykes, which explains the principles of mean conjunctions.

Understanding the Mean Conjunctions of the Jupiter-Saturn Cycle
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/mean_conjunctions.html

I really like this article and intend it to be the first of several articles that I hope to upload over coming months that explore the traditional use of the Jupiter-Saturn conjunction (the next big event occurs in 2020, so I hope that in advance of that astrologers will be much more generally aware of what this cycle means). Ben's article explains some of the technicalities of the cycle - I would say it is an advanced-level article because it is not aimed at beginners, but then the web is overloaded (I think) with articles that tell us what we should think things mean, and suffers from a lack of good research articles like this, that clear up what are often perceived to be technical problems or faults caused by historical astrologers supposedly not knowing what they were doing. The article is an adapted extracted from his book, which of course gives much more information on this and other mundane techniques. Ben is always very generous in sharing a lot of his material for free on the Skyscript site, so I hope this sample of his work will help to promote awareness of the excellent work he is doing with his translation series. (If there are any astrologers who still don't know this Smile )
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Mjacob



Joined: 17 Nov 2011
Posts: 412
Location: Kent - England

Posted: Thu May 21, 2015 1:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Additions: Dykes on conjunctions, Kirk Little on blind t Reply with quote

Deb wrote:


Ptolemy (II.1), and other historical authorities are clear that an astrological review of any individual can only be reliable if the astrologer first understands "the more general considerations" that affect the birth (parents, social status, genetic influences, cultural conditioning, etc). So to me, blind tests are not only questionable for the reasons Kirk proposes - although his points are very well made - but because they conflict with a fundamental premise of astrology, that one chart does not offer a certain and reliable analysis of anything unless its context and connection to other important charts is properly understood.


Doubtless you are aware that one of those authorities is Ibn Ezra who states the reasons for this in plain terms. I have quoted him more than once on this but nobody takes a blind bit of notice - least of all me I admit as I can't resist taking part in these Mystery Chart challenges !

Matthew

ps - On your second piece of news any articles by Ben Dykes are more than welcome
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Deb
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Location: England

Posted: Thu May 21, 2015 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I refer to some of the comments made by Ptolemy and Ezra on this point in my article on Hippocrates, in this section:

http://skyscript.co.uk/humours.html#air

Don't get me wrong, the mystery chart threads are interesting and valued, but that is a different thing to hanging the veracity of astrology onto this kind of test ; which I don't think is a wise thing to do, although I also understand the temptation to do it !
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jventura



Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 292
Location: Portugal

Posted: Thu May 21, 2015 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Deb,

about the mystery charts subject, since it has been raised here, my opinion is that most of the latest topics are not pedagogical at all. People post a chart and ask for generalities such as "what can you tell me about this person?". Then, when you read the answers, you also read generic things like "he suffers too much", etc. Well, everyone suffers.. Shocked

Since we simple can't expect people to give a full interpretation here, my suggestion would be for people to ask for simple but concrete details, such as "what kind of career does this person have", etc. I think everyone would be willing to contribute and learn more from that.

(It's not meant to be a critic, only an opinion since the issue was raised here) Smile
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 2753
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi deb,

thanks for your post. for some reason i must have been too focused on those mystery charts i was posting in may to notice this!! that said, you comments on the mystery charts here are interesting. i don't wish to take your comments out of context, but yet i am motivated to explain that any mystery chart exercise i offer could be treated any number of ways.. what i find especially interesting is how little interest they generate.. if someone has a better way of presenting them in some way they feel would benefit the astro community here better, i wish they would offer it up.. as it is - no one other then myself seems to for the most part.. i have been too busy to offer any up lately, but of course one can comment on any aspect of the chart while having next to no context for the chart. i suppose someone could design it different to appeal to you or others who wish to see more info provided..

i read nassars book when it came out.. it was interesting to see how the different astrologers tried to come to conclusions on the chart under consideration.. i mostly didn't think much of the book, but maybe others got something out of it..

as for the ben dykes article - as he notes in the opening comments - it is an adapted excerpt from his latest book "Astrology of the World II: Revolutions & History", which i have read about 1/2 ways thru. thanks for articulating your views on the mystery charts i have been offering the board..
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