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Islamic Caliphate Declared by ISIS
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Mark
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Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:11 am    Post subject: Islamic Caliphate Declared by ISIS Reply with quote



The Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (Isis) has reportedly declared the areas it occupies in Iraq and Syria as a new Islamic state, or Caliphate removing Iraq and the Levant from its name.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_in_Iraq_and_the_Levant

The announcement will see the Isis now simply refer to itself as The Islamic State, and the group has called on al-Qa’ida and other related militant Sunni factions operating in the region to immediately pledge their allegiance.

According to Isis’s chief spokesman Abu Mohammed al-Adnani, the declaration of the “restoration of the caliphate” was made after a meeting of the group’s Shura Council.

In recent weeks, Isis has captured large areas of western and northern Iraq and for two years has held parts of Syria, imposing a harsh interpretation of Islamic law and in many cases, killing large numbers of opposition Shia Muslims.

Adnani said all jihadist organisations must now offer up their support to Isis leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, who has been declared Caliph of the new state.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28082962

http://www.dw.de/isis-declares-leader-al-baghdadi-caliph-of-the-muslims-changes-name/a-17745538

http://time.com/2938317/isis-militants-declare-islamist-caliphate/

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/06/29/us-syria-crisis-iraq-idUSKBN0F40SL20140629

Historically there hasn’t been a Caliph in Islam since the abolition of the Ottoman Caliphate in 1924. In the Islamic world a Caliph is appointed as the only legitimate successor to Prophet Mohammed.

Although the title was designed for a single caliph and caliphate state, the position was regularly contested throughout history among Sunni and Shiite Muslims, and sometimes along geographical lines as well.
ISIS advocates a return to a medieval-style Sunni caliphate for the Arab World. It called on Sunday for all factions worldwide to pledge allegiance to the self-declared "caliphate," a move some observers saw as a direct challenge to former allies al Qaeda.

This move by ISIS is therefore very radical and controversial for Muslims and will no doubt meet with strong reactions within the Islamic world. Many are already describing it as a PR ploy by the group. However, there is little doubt they are sincere in their ambition to redraw the map of the middle east with a fundamentalist Islamic state.



Above: Flag for Islamic Caliphate

I have obtained a time for the declaration going online of 5:00PM GMT from the Jihad watcher Pieter van Ostaeyen

http://pietervanostaeyen.wordpress.com/2014/06/29/the-islamic-state-restores-the-caliphate/comment-page-1/



UPDATE: Considerable Confusion has arisen in the astrological community on the time for the commencement of the Caliphate. In part this reflects using different events.

Online Video statement Announcing Caliphate:
I was initially trying to time the release of the ISIS video declaring the Caliphate. which I timed for 5PM or 4PM GMT based on a reply from my source Pieter Van Ostaeyen.

Tweet Announcement
Another approach was to time the start of the Caliphate from a release of a tweet on June 29th (Presumably from from Ar-Raqqah, Syria). Two different times have subsequently emerged of 12:05AM, CDT, USA provided by the astrologer Peter Novak and 8.05AM BST, UK, provided by Nathan Strange. Contrary to what Peter Novak initially assumed tweets record the time the message is received in the local time of the recipient not the time of the sender!

Using Peter Novak's time we arrive at a local time in Syria of 08:05am. While Nathan suggested the time of his tweet had to be 05:05AM.

Working with Peter Novak's time we see CDT is 5 hours behind GMT and 8 hours behind local time in Syria. So this suggests a local time of 08:05AM for the tweet being sent. In contrast Nathan Strange states his tweet is recorded as 08:05AM BST (British Summer time ie GMT+1 hour). From this time he has subtracted 3 hours to get a local time of 5:05AM in Syria for the tweet. However, later in the thread I have disputed this derived time. My point is that Syria is 3 hours ahead of GMT not behind. I suggest this indicates a local time in Syria of 10:05AM not 5:05AM as Nathan has suggested.

Video Release of Celebrations in Early Morning
A third source for a time is provided You Tube video evidence of celebrations taking place in Ar-Raqqah just before sunrise on the 29th. This appears connected to the Caliphate announcement amongst the local ISIS fighters there. Nathan has provided several links for those wanting to examine this.



Pluto is dead on the ASC and its the apex of a loose T. Square involving Uranus and Mars in opposition. The two malefics Mars ard Saturn are in a mutual reception. Mars the planet of war and conflict is prominent here in the 9th house by whole sign/equal and rules the 4th house of land and territory. Mars in the 9th fits the violent and supremacist ideology of this movement. Its placed in its sign of detriment in Libra and this combined with Pluto rising fit the brutality of this movement and its expansionist and highly controlling ideas. This also comes with a combustable Mars-Uranus opposition and a wide opposition between the Caliphate Sun and Pluto gives quite a nasty profile.

Jupiter is exalted in Cancer in the 7th house while the Moon (Lord 7) is in a square to the Caliphate MC. This no doubt reflects the power of the opposition facing this Islamic state. There is little doubt this movement has enemies everywhere! Where to start? Internally, it has opponents in the Iraqi and Syrian governments, the Kurds and many Arabic Tribesmen. Its also at loggerheads with other Jihadist and other opposition groups in Syria. Externally, it is opposed by the governments of Iran, Turkey, Israel, Lebanon , Jordan, the USA and the Russians! Even the Saudi Arabians and Gulf states ,who were the main financial backers of this movement, are probably very concerned now as the group's expansionist plans seem to extend well beyond northern Arabia into their territories.

I am using Ar-Raqqah in Syria as the location of the chart as this city is the declared capital of the new Caliphate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_in_Iraq_and_the_Levant

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ar-Raqqah

Mark
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Mark
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Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For those a bit lost on what is going on and who controls where here is map indicating areas of control in Iraq and Syria at present (30/06/2014):



Dark Grey: The Caliphate
Purple: Iraqi government
Pink: Syrian government
Green: Kurdish self rule area (Iraq)
Dark Khaki: Kurdish controlled areas (Syria)
Light Green/Turquoise: Other Islamist groups
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Mark
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Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are the conflicting views of two middle East analysts on how much of a threat the new Islamic Caliphate poses:

Shashank Joshi cautions against being alarmed by the bluster of Isis. Writing in the Telegraph before the group formerly declared a caliphate, he says:

Quote:
There are good reasons to think that Isis’ caliphate could run out of steam long before it matches the great Islamic empires of history.

Isis has hostile forces in every direction. It will face resistance from anti-Isis Syrian rebels in the west, the hostility of Kurds in the north, and, eventually, a counter-offensive from government forces to the south. Even if the government collapses – and we are a long way from that – then Iraq’s Shia majority will not accept a permanent jihadist state on their northern flank, let alone allow Isis to stroll into Baghdad. Saddam slaughtered Shias in 1991, and Isis has been slaughtering Shias for over a decade. The Shias have had quite enough, thank you.

Iraq’s neighbours will also fight back. Ankara does not look kindly at the fact that Isis has kidnapped Turkish diplomats in Mosul. Iran is not just aghast at the rise of a radical Sunni force on its western border, but concerned about losing an ally in Baghdad that it views as more important than even Assad. Tehran is reportedly airlifting over a hundred tons of supplies to Baghdad daily, and deployed its special forces there weeks ago.

If Isis attempts to conduct attacks against Western countries, as the prime minister warned last week, then it will face the near certainty of air strikes. It can hunker down safely in urban areas like Mosul, but large stretches of its territory are completely devoid of cover. It will suffer grievous losses.


But Charles Lister, a visiting fellow at the Brookings Institution, suggested the west should be alarmed. Talking to the Times he said the announcement was likely to be the “most significant development in international jihadism since 9/11”.

Lister commented :

Quote:
Isis is already fully operational in Iraq and Syria. It has a covert presence in southern Turkey, appears to be establishing a small presence in Lebanon and has supporters in Jordan, Gaza, the Sinai, Indonesia, Saudi Arabia and elsewhere.

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james_m



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Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mark,

marjorie orr is working with a chart of oct 15th 2006 for isis, or what is now the islamic state, or caliphate chart which she views as an extension of this earlier chart. she provides 3 links to collaborate this date.. although they are different links, they are all by the same author. i have asked her why oct 15th 2006 and not oct 13th which is cited on a few links on the wiki page for isis..one of the links on wiki http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2006/10/the_rump_islamic_emi.php# point to a video which is no longer working. the other one i am still waiting for it to connect to - http://www.ucdp.uu.se/gpdatabase/gpcountry.php?id=77&regionSelect=10-Middle_East#
finally did and it doesn't offer a specific date either. it is from the university of uppsala in sweden.

what i cite relates to footnotes 56 and 52 on this wiki page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_in_Iraq_and_the_Levant

one interesting relatively minor connection between the oct 15th 2006 date and the date we are looking at from yesterday on the caliphate is a moon in leo in both.. oct 13th date would be moon in cancer.. if i hear back from marjorie on any of this, i will update my comments to reflect this.

and on a related note to the topic of this thread -
http://www.khaama.com/isis-reveals-five-year-plan-for-global-domination-6329

and finally! if your present chart for 1700 hours - no alteration of time zones sticks - 12 cardinal 50 is also the midpoint to mars/sun which is 12 cardinal 51.
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carriere.francois



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Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Mark,

I am really not sure that this 17h GMT match the original time of the proclamation. Personally, I have not found credible sources yet. Unless this is the way terrorists act?...
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Mark
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Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

carriere.francois wrote:

Quote:
Hello Mark,

I am really not sure that this 17h GMT match the original time of the proclamation. Personally, I have not found credible sources yet. Unless this is the way terrorists act?...


Yes I was having some PM discussion with James about this proposed time! We both ended up somewhat confused about the time given by this source!

I should have said the time was not 100% confirmed. I have now put an update on that next to the chart referring people to your comment.

If you check the link to my source you will see he is a Belgian blogger who monitors Jihadist material in Arabic. He states the time was 5PM+1. I have tried to clarify what he means by that but he just repeated the same comment. He is based in Belgium so I assumed this was Central European Time. But they are currently using daylight saving time which is GMT+2. So its possible the time is 5PM GMT+2. He was maybe assuming his local time is still GMT+1.

So I think it is conceivable it is actually 4pm GMT since its just possible it was 6PM his local time. Confused He seems a tad irritated with my follow up question already. Maybe another member could seek that clarification from him? How about you?Scroll down to the bottom of the page for the existing comments.

http://pietervanostaeyen.wordpress.com/2014/06/29/the-islamic-state-restores-the-caliphate/comment-page-1/

Mark

PS If you dont know the time yourself why did you think this one was wrong?
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Geoffrey



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Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:16 am    Post subject: Re: Islamic Caliphate Declared by ISIS-Chart & Analysis Reply with quote

Mark wrote:


I have obtained a time for the declaration going online of 5:00PM GMT from the Jihad watcher Pieter van Ostaeyen


Pieter van Ostaeyen stated that, "As I said; the Caliphate post was sent by ISIS at exactly 5 PM GMT+1. I posted my blog a few hours later"

As you said on Pieter van Ostaeyen's blog, Belgium is on GMT + 2 right now. Why would he state the time in this way? Is the confusion about the timing resolved for you now?

Geoffrey
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Mark
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Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geoffrey wrote:
Quote:
As you said on Pieter van Ostaeyen's blog, Belgium is on GMT + 2 right now. Why would he state the time in this way? Is the confusion about the timing resolved for you now?


No. Both James and I were confused. If he is located in Belgium the concern is that he is assuming we are still on GMT in the UK. As he is Belgium why not give his local time time ie GMT +2. The concern is that he is deriving GMT by counting back his local time and using +1 rather than +2 in error.

However, giving him the credit to know the difference this GMT+1 is the same as BST (GMT+1) so if he realised that then maybe the time for the chart is correct. As he has repeated this now I assume he has checked so hopefully the 5PM GMT time is right. I just find it odd why he didn't just leave it at GMT or give his local time difference from GMT if that is the case.

Mark
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Geoffrey



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Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark wrote:


However, giving him the credit to know the difference this GMT+1 is the same as BST (GMT+1)


Yabut, BST 5:00 pm, which is GMT + 1, would be 4:00pm GMT, that is 1600 hrs GMT, as you suspect, not 5:00pm (17:00hrs) GMT as you say. Woudn't it?

I think this could possibly be the most important event in world history since 9/11 and it is worth trying to get the time of the announcement right.
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Mark
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Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geoffrey wrote:

Quote:
Yabut, BST 5:00 pm, which is GMT + 1, would be 4:00pm GMT, that is 1600 hrs GMT, as you suspect, not 5:00pm (17:00hrs) GMT as you say. Woudn't it?


Yes I get that. I agree if he gave the time as 5PM BST it would be 4:00 GMT. But he hasn''t done that has he? He states the time is 5PM GMT+1. Which would indicate 6.00pm BST to me? Maybe he noticed I was UK based and gave me it that way?

However, it could still be actually 4:00PM GMT if he made a mistake and thought the time difference between his local time in Belgium and GMT was 1 hours rather than 2.

Geoffrey wrote:
Quote:
I think this could possibly be the most important event in world history since 9/11 and it is worth trying to get the time of the announcement right.


Agreed! I will contact Pieter privately on this and explain my reasons for wanting to pin this down. I just hope he doesn't have a problem with astrologers!
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Michaelb



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Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi
Conflicting times all over the place. Below Guardian Link note the time on page at beginning coverage 7.16 AM BST would be 06.16 GMT would be 09.16 AM Raggah.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/middle-east-live/2014/jun/30/isis-declares-caliphate-in-iraq-and-syria-live-updates

7.16am BST Welcome to our live coverage of the crisis in Iraq.
Here's a roundup of the latest developments:

The militant Sunni group Isis has said it is establishing a caliphate, or Islamic state, in the territories it controls in Iraq and Syria. It also proclaimed the group's leader, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, as caliph and "leader for Muslims everywhere".END

Wishy washy as if it has not yet happened but has

For Guardian article, name at top of live coverage page
Matthew Weaver theguardian.com perhaps you folks in the U.K. can contact him ??

http://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2014/jun/30/isis-declare-islamic-state-iraq-tightens-security-baghdad-video

From link above is link below showing a celebration with a tank acting like a NASCAR driver at end of race. Yet it must be asked is this celebration on the 29th? If so then note the Sun Still shinning.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2014/jul/01/isis-militants-military-syria-raqqa-video

With Sun still shining that would knock out any 17.00 GMT chart. 17 equates to 20.00 Raggah IF they are using time zone -3 hours.

See two links below giving sunrise and set for Ragga. Sunset for one link is 19.45 not quite 17.00 GMT. The other gives time 19.42 also not quite 17.00 GMT.

Link to calculate SunRise Set
http://www.weatherimages.org/latlonsun.html

The following information is provided for Raggah (longitude E39.0, latitude N36.0):

Sunday
29 June 2014 Universal Time + 3h

SUN
Begin civil twilight 04:40
Sunrise 05:10
Sun transit 12:27
Sunset 19:45
End civil twilight 20:15

http://www.date-and-time.net/?calculate=true

Sunday
Date: 29-6-
TS: 04:40 am
SR: 05:14 am
SS: 07:42 pm
TE: 08:15 pm
SD: 14:28 h

Both links give rather close times.

Also reading several articles including the von Ostaeyen article they mention around Noon is when declaration or video was played.

Question, around Noon WHERE in Europe, England, the U.S. or Syria??

Two more links one stating following:
Sunday, June 29, 2014 GAMBLING ON THE CALIPHATE
This morning, the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS, or ISIL if you must) announced it was pronouncing the reformation of the caliphate, with ISIS emir Abu Bakr al Baghdadi as caliph, and that it was renaming itself simply The Islamic State. The official announcement was released in Arabic, English, German, French and Russian.

J.M. Berger
Analyst researching extremism, special focus on U.S. homeland, social media. Contributor @ForeignPolicy, author of Jihad Joe

http://jihadjoebook.com
END
Note again about This Morning. Either way perhaps someone can find Berger mail and ask him what he means by morning, that is, Where is morning? But oh does not a 17.00 GMT chart look so good with the usual Pluto rising. Michaelb
ps as usual with all these numbers hope I made no typos
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Mark
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Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Michaelb wrote:

Quote:
Conflicting times all over the place. Below Guardian Link note the time on page at beginning coverage 7.16 AM BST would be 06.16 GMT would be 09.16 AM Raggah.


Yes but from what I can see this web live update went out 7.16AM on Monday 30th not Sunday. This wasn't up on the Guardian website on Sunday because believe me I checked!

So as I see it this Guardian link is irrelevant. Your other speculations seem based on an incorrect timing assumption. Sorry!

Can I urge people to exercise some caution here before posting times unless they can cite a reliable source. We all want the right time/chart. But premature posting may just create more confusion here.


Quote:
Also reading several articles including the von Ostaeyen article they mention around Noon is when declaration or video was played.


Yes I spotted this and it was there before he replied to me. But if you actually read what Pieter actually states on his blog carefully he is not saying the Caliphate was proclaimed at noon. It came several hours later. From his blog:

Quote:
Today, the first day of Ramadan 2014 (June 29th), can and will be marked as a historical day. As expected by many the Islamic State in Iraq and as-Sham (ISIS) released a video message around noon today. It was a remembrance of the breaking of the Sykes-Picot borders after the most succesful Blitzkrieg ISIS undertook in Iraq (conquering Mosul mid June and still raging on). The video was titled Kasr al-Hudud or “The Breaking of the Borders”.

Usually ISIS al-’Itisam media only publishes one video or audio message once every few days, but this message was quite immediately followed by another one. This video was titled “The End of Sykes-Picot” and starred a Chilean ISIS fighter talking about the recent successes of the Islamic State in Iraq and as-Sham.

One of ISIS’s official Twitter accounts added: Coming soon by Allah’s permission: Good News for the Muslim Ummah “This Is the Promise of Allah”

And indeed; not even two hours later they released a new audio statement by ISIS official spokesman Abu Muhammad al-’Adnani, titled “This is the Promise of Allah”.


So this apparent contradiction is really non-existant as it is explained by the fact ISIS released several videos on Sunday. There were initially two and then after a gap of about two hours later came the third video annoucing the proclamation of the Caliphate.

I do think he is a useful source because he understands Arabic and checks such transmissions daily. This makes him more reliable than 99.9% of journalists who simply repeat what a news service tells them. I plan to contact Pieter to hopefully help resolve this.

Ironically, I found Pieter's blog after someone else posted on a forum that the time of the proclamation was noon. A link to Pieters site was given. It seems many people didn't really bother to read his blog carefully enough and people are now incorrectly quoting the noon time from this misunderstanding of what he was saying.

I did check Reuters and a couple of their news flash services and the earliest timed article I could find listed there on Sunday was by the Independent for 17:40pm. But as always not clear what timing that was based on!

Quote:
Two more links one stating following:



Quote:
Sunday, June 29, 2014 GAMBLING ON THE CALIPHATE
This morning, the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS, or ISIL if you must) announced it was pronouncing the reformation of the caliphate, with ISIS emir Abu Bakr al Baghdadi as caliph, and that it was renaming itself simply The Islamic State. The official announcement was released in Arabic, English, German, French and Russian.


What is your source here Michael? You dont list it. Do you have a link? Be cautious of anything coming out of the USA/Canada referring to 'morning' as they are no doubt using local time. However, if this isn't a North American newspaper link this could be very significant.

Quote:
J.M. Berger
Analyst researching extremism, special focus on U.S. homeland, social media. Contributor @ForeignPolicy, author of Jihad Joe

http://jihadjoebook.com
END
Note again about This Morning. Either way perhaps someone can find Berger mail and ask him what he means by morning, that is, Where is morning? But oh does not a 17.00 GMT


He is American so I imagine he must be at least 4 hours behind GMT with daylight saving on the US east coast. If he is further west the difference will be greater still. Does he read Arabic or listen to such transmissions like the source I gave? If not he is relying on news services like the rest of us.

I should emphasize I am not fixated on the 5PM GMT chart. It seems like our astrology is on hold unless/until we can pin an accurate sourced time down. As Geoffrey said this is arguably a highly significant event so its more important to take our time and get this right.

Intriguingly, I see another astrologer has come up with a time just 6 minutes from the one I have cited. In particular, Paul Saunders on his site Solaris Astrology has a chart for the Caliphate. He is using a time of 19:54 Local time (Mosul, Iraq). Iraq is currently GMT+3 . His time converts to 16:54 GMT but obviously leads to different rising degrees located for Mosul. I disagree with this approach and strongly believe the chart needs to be located for the declared capital of the Caliphate which is Ar-Raqqah, Syria. This gives us our very graphic Pluto rising chart too.

Paul writes:

Quote:
The chart of the caliphate comes courtesy of Astrologer Peter Novak who set a chart in Mosel, Iraq for 19.54 hours approximately the time when Al-Baghdadi made this striking announcement. Peter says the timing is not certain, but to my eyes it seems pretty close to being correct.


http://solarisastrology.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/isis-rebels-declare-islamic-caliphate.html
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Michaelb



Joined: 21 Apr 2011
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Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi
Quote:
Sunday, June 29, 2014 GAMBLING ON THE CALIPHATE
This morning, the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS, or ISIL if you must) announced it was pronouncing the reformation of the caliphate, with ISIS emir Abu Bakr al Baghdadi as caliph, and that it was renaming itself simply The Islamic State. The official announcement was released in Arabic, English, German, French and Russian.

What is your source here Michael? You dont list it. Do you have a link? Be cautious of anything coming out of the USA/Canada referring to 'morning' as they are no doubt using local time. However, if this isn't a North American newspaper link this could be very significant. END QUOTE

Here are the links.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/06/29/isis-risks-everything-to-declare-a-caliphate.html

http://news.intelwire.com/2014/06/gambling-on-caliphate.html

As to being cautious read what I wrote. I am aware of times zones and possibility articles coming out of various countries may be way off the mark as to a closer more correct time to event taking place. That is why I wrote the following>
Note again about This Morning. Either way perhaps someone can find Berger mail and ask him what he means by morning, that is, Where is morning?

Quote: ME
Also reading several articles including the von Ostaeyen article they mention around Noon is when declaration or video was played.

Mark:
Yes I spotted this and it was there before he replied to me. But if you actually read what Pieter actually states on his blog carefully he is not saying the Caliphate was proclaimed at noon. It came several hours later. From his blog: END QUOTES

From you, the snide remark if you Me actually read what Pieter wrote .... is uncalled for. Again read what I wrote. Besides stating I read several articles including the von Ostaeyen article I left it open that either declaration may have been made at around Noon or was this when they began playing Video. Yes I read the blasted article about the several tapes played. That lead me to following.

I then pointed out videos with the Tank celebration with question was this on 29th. Then noted they were celebrating while the sun was still up, had not gone down. In fact look at video there is probably a good 30 or so minutes of Sun left. That could take us to a time of celebration beginning around 19.10 local time or 16.10 GMT. And how might I make such an estimate? I gave two links to find SunRise Set at Raggah and it was before a 17.00 GMT time. Sunset at one link came to 19:42 the other 19:45. Converted to GMT is 16.42, 16.45. I then wrote With Sun still shining that would knock out any 17.00 GMT chart. Obviously you did not like it that someone reminded you of what you later reminded us of, to be cautious. 17 GMT equates to 20.00 Raggah IF they are using time zone -3 hours.

Also to the around Noon statements. Both BBC and TV24 France began making statements that, today around Noon Isis began making declaration via videos. Compared to my current time zone, I took note of the time they BBC France started making these announcements puts the time a little after 11 AM London 12 PM Paris. These announcements made it somewhat confusing. But giving it more thought they both must have meant around Noon in Syria and not local UK or Paris time. 10 AM GMT London 11 AM bst thus around 1 Pm zone -3 which means BBC and TV24 actually meant around Noon for zone -3 hours in Syria. In whichever video they made a declaration could be anyone's guess. Michaelb
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Mark
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Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Michaelb wrote:
Quote:
From you, the snide remark if you Me actually read what Pieter wrote .... is uncalled for.


I am sorry if my tone caused offence Michael. Lets all try and keep our egos out of this discussion. Ultimately, the bigger picture is to establish the hard facts here on behalf of the wider astrological community. Lets all focus on that.

Quote:
I then pointed out videos with the Tank celebration with question was this on 29th. Then noted they were celebrating while the sun was still up, had not gone down. In fact look at video there is probably a good 30 or so minutes of Sun left. That could take us to a time of celebration beginning around 19.10 local time or 16.10 GMT. And how might I make such an estimate? I gave two links to find SunRise Set at Raggah and it was before a 17.00 GMT time. Sunset at one link came to 19:42 the other 19:45. Converted to GMT is 16.42, 16.45. I then wrote With Sun still shining that would knock out any 17.00 GMT chart. Obviously you did not like it that someone reminded you of what you later reminded us of, to be cautious. 17 GMT equates to 20.00 Raggah IF they are using time zone -3 hours.


Ok. I had assumed by tanks you were discussing the ISIS video. Are you discussing the link via the Guardian? Your approach seems somewhat speculative and relies on the footage being from Sunday. Do we know this for definite? I saw a BBC news report on Monday evening that presented this display of tanks etc as happening earlier on Monday.

Michaelb wrote:
Quote:
Obviously you did not like it that someone reminded you of what you later reminded us of, to be cautious. 17 GMT equates to 20.00 Raggah IF they are using time zone -3 hours.


Lets avoid a tit for tat point scoring approach here Michael. If you think I am wrong about something thats fine. Just make your case rationally. I never claimed to be infallible. I get things wrong like everyone else. I am not fixated on being right here. But lets leave personaliities out of this. Its not helping us get this matter resolved.

Quote:
Also to the around Noon statements. Both BBC and TV24 France began making statements that, today around Noon Isis began making declaration via videos. Compared to my current time zone, I took note of the time they BBC France started making these announcements puts the time a little after 11 AM London 12 PM Paris. These announcements made it somewhat confusing. But giving it more thought they both must have meant around Noon in Syria and not local UK or Paris time. 10 AM GMT London 11 AM bst thus around 1 Pm zone -3 which means BBC and TV24 actually meant around Noon for zone -3 hours in Syria. In whichever video they made a declaration could be anyone's guess.


I think the problem we have is the same one mentioned by Pieter's blog. Are they timing this from the actual announcement or simply when the first video release went out that afternoon? After all these news services are not astrologers. They dont hold the precise exactitude of timing as crucial as we do. Around noon Paris time would actually coincide pretty well with with source I already cited. So personally, I still think a time between 4-5pm GMT still looks plausible. However, if Pieter Van Ostaeyen
is simply wrong on his facts I suppose a midday local time in Syria is certainly conceivable.

Mark
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Last edited by Mark on Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:00 pm; edited 5 times in total
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ModWasp



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Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark, I've also been trying to find an accurate time - The first tweet regarding the declaration that i could find from one of their social media sources was at 09:29, 29th June 2014 Ar-Raqqah, Syria. - 35N57, 30E01 - thanks.
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