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Experimenting with horse races
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hardy



Joined: 05 Dec 2018
Posts: 5

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mod Wasp mk2 wrote:
Thanks for the reply.

With all due respect, you haven't answered my question.

How do you find one of these unusual names through the interpretation of a chart?

How is it possible to pick a horse named "Umndeni", winner of the 3.00 at Fontwell last weekend, using this method?

Quote:
and those vibrating cusps are the winners....law of vibration!!!


You state that the vibrating cusps indicate the winner - what house systems are you using?

It's naive, at best, to think that there 'cosmic rays'. Although that is a discussion for another thread (that is, "what is the nature of astrology?"), you are making grand claims that your system works every time;

Quote:
i wanted to just say there are methods which work every time, be it evening or noon.


The proof of the pudding will be in the eating - why don't you select 5 winners from the 35 races that are taking place tomorrow?

Here's a link to tomorrow's cards:

https://www.racingpost.com/racecards/tomorrow

Look forward to reading your selections...


I make a chart for the time of race, placidus house system....i do not read into names, colors, weights, jockey's...

I agree what i say is looking unbelievable, but i will prove with my selections pretty soon....i have been writing astrological notes for the races i am analyzing....

I will certainly do more than 5 races when i have enough time and i will update on this thread a day before.....
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skyrack



Joined: 02 Aug 2012
Posts: 190
Location: Thailand

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I look forward to this.
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Vas



Joined: 06 Jun 2018
Posts: 52

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've researched so hard and honestly I have to say predicting the outcome of a horse race is quite complex.

There a methods out there in the mainstream such as addey, sepharial, al kindi, John Wherman etc:

-Addey method: does work, but it seems to work better with sextile and trines. What happens if the cusp is 2 degree's and the next planet to sextile, trine, square is 13 degree's? The Book makes it look easy, but it hardly is.
-Sepharial: can work too, you require the weights for this one
-Angles method: Yes this can work, you look for tight aspects
-planetary hour ruler method: You have to know the horse's colour for this one

-midheaven method: doesn't work, I felt the mh ruler sign would give the winner as the 'colour' of the shirt.

Some people use mathematical, statistical techniques however these are too inconsistent. I've even tried thinking and using different methods but these don't work either.

Maybe using addey, sepharical, angles method all in one for races may work.
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Vas



Joined: 06 Jun 2018
Posts: 52

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hardy wrote:
Mod Wasp mk2 wrote:
Thanks for the reply.

With all due respect, you haven't answered my question.

How do you find one of these unusual names through the interpretation of a chart?

How is it possible to pick a horse named "Umndeni", winner of the 3.00 at Fontwell last weekend, using this method?

Quote:
and those vibrating cusps are the winners....law of vibration!!!


You state that the vibrating cusps indicate the winner - what house systems are you using?

It's naive, at best, to think that there 'cosmic rays'. Although that is a discussion for another thread (that is, "what is the nature of astrology?"), you are making grand claims that your system works every time;

Quote:
i wanted to just say there are methods which work every time, be it evening or noon.


The proof of the pudding will be in the eating - why don't you select 5 winners from the 35 races that are taking place tomorrow?

Here's a link to tomorrow's cards:

https://www.racingpost.com/racecards/tomorrow

Look forward to reading your selections...


I make a chart for the time of race, placidus house system....i do not read into names, colors, weights, jockey's...

I agree what i say is looking unbelievable, but i will prove with my selections pretty soon....i have been writing astrological notes for the races i am analyzing....

I will certainly do more than 5 races when i have enough time and i will update on this thread a day before.....


Interesting, I look forward to this as well.

BTW, I know vedic astro too.
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jimijamesandtheblueflames



Joined: 03 Oct 2018
Posts: 72

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I agree what i say is looking unbelievable, but i will prove with my selections pretty soon....i have been writing astrological notes for the races i am analyzing....


Please let us know what races you are studying so we can all have a look and come to our own conclusions.
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Vas



Joined: 06 Jun 2018
Posts: 52

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure how this method works with 'vibrating houses'.

The individual stated that they do not use names, colors, odds, weights, no horary and no house aspects.

The individual also stated they they just look at how many horses that are in the race and use western, vedic astrology using placidus house to get the winner.

I'm trying to figure out how it's done, so in a 6 horse race, we use houses 1-6 and assign them to the horse number, or start at house 5.
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jimijamesandtheblueflames



Joined: 03 Oct 2018
Posts: 72

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vas, it's complete rubbish.

If there was a system that worked 100% of the time, we'd all be millionaires within a week.

The best that one could possibly hope for, in the long term, is a 5-10% advantage when selecting a winner. Wanting anything more than that is pure greed.

I'm not expecting to read anything further on this wonder technique.

Since the challenge was first issued, there's been 152 races in the UK and Ireland alone and many abandoned meetings. I haven't included international meetings in that figure, so in fact, the actual number of races worldwide in the last week is probably closer to about 400.

It's fantasy.
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Vas



Joined: 06 Jun 2018
Posts: 52

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mod Wasp2 mk2,

Likewise, I feel the same way too.

Addey method seems to work, albeit we know the true accuracy of this method.

Other literature on the internet, as well as John Frawley sports astro book vouches for addey's method. Although we know how accuarate it truly is.

Angles method can work too, although it seems to work 60% of the time with colours.

There is the Sepharial method and one user on here seems to use it well as I've been reading other horse race threads on here.
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jimijamesandtheblueflames



Joined: 03 Oct 2018
Posts: 72

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vas,

in my opinion, the Addey method works best. That's not to say, of course, that it's infallible - it does seem to have limitations. But it's worth remembering that it is only a guideline for interpretation - the accuracies or inaccuracies boils down to the skill of the astrologer and their interpretation of that particular chart. In the years that I've been using it, I'd like to think that I've made some discoveries about the method that, I think, adds to its efficiency. For example, when the first aspect is to whatever is L12, or is incepted in 12, is a fairly good testimony to take into consideration. I've made some observations with regards to the Moon and certain aspects, such as the quincunx, that add to the 'rules' of this method. Planets on angels is another thing to consider. Of course, Frawley in his book is only giving a very generalised overview of this method, but, I think he's right when he states that it's the most reliable. In my opinion, it's the fact that you approach the chart from the 5th in the first place, is what gives it it's validity.

The only other method that I've looked into, and I did so for almost 10 years was 'The Silver Key'. My opinion of that changed when my understanding of astrology developed. or example, I don't believe that there are 'cosmic rays' or 'energy vibrations' that affect us physically, and that belief is required for that particular method.

Of course, there are philosophical debates to have about this, and that is really what interests me about this subject. It's a little unfortunate that many people don't sit down and really consider what it is that they are trying to discover and how or why it does or doesn't work.
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john



Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 615
Location: Lancashire, England

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It depends how we define ‘work’ when predicting horse races.

If we want 100% success and win an accumulator each day then it will never work.

I use a variation of Wehrman and have been playing with it for over two years.

Just over two years ago an account was opened, which if you bet an amount each week you are entitled to a free bet. A second account was opened 18 months ago on a similar basis.

Each week we’ve won enough money to bet again the following week without having to put anymore of our own money in for over two years now. This account is running at around a 15% return.

The second account requires fewer bets of larger amounts to obtain a free bet. This account is more volatile, again after the initial outlay we’ve not put any money in and is running at about a 25% return.

I’ve been having conversations with the people at Canaveral Research Centre, which has been helpful.

The astrologer is part of the process of choosing a horse and is not separate, similar to astrologers who read for a client and the skill of different astrologers will produce variations in the quality of advice/counselling/guidance/prediction.

When choices have to made it is the layering of the astrology that helps, be it Addey, angles, colours.

Then there is the separate non-astrological process in this area with some knowledge of form, value for money in bets being also relevant. This has to play a part in our second account but the first account is purely astrological.

What has become evident is that the system is dynamic, that is people who win at a certain degree will be replaced by others after a period of time, which seems to be our way forward in refining the success rate.
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C'est la vie, say astrologers, goes to show you never can tell.
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jimijamesandtheblueflames



Joined: 03 Oct 2018
Posts: 72

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
It depends how we define ‘work’ when predicting horse races


I suppose that means the type of chart/system that gives the astrologer the best chance of successfully (i.e. picking a winner) interpreting.

Still waiting for hardy's selections but, unfortunately, doesn't look like we're going to get any for at least a week, due to the equine flu issue.
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john



Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 615
Location: Lancashire, England

Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What ‘works’ in sports astrology is akin to considering what ‘house’ system works.

Astrologically, predicting when the favourites win is likely to get a high percentage success rate but could produce a loss financially.

I heard somewhere that if a bet on the Premier League champions winning all their home games would have a resulted in a financial loss over the season but the percentage success would have been reasonably good.

If 20-1 horses were being picked, or if the bottom premier league team winning was being picked (they’ve won twice this season) then the profit could be higher but the number of correct predictions would be lower.

In this arena, it’s knowing when to play or pass with a prediction which influences both the percentage success and the profit.

We reluctantly go public with what we’re doing occasionally as hubris sets in! After I posted the other day, the horse racing community gets struck down with plague and pestilence (equine flu) and all races in the UK are cancelled.

When it is mentioned, the question back to us is how much are you winning rather than what is the percentage success.
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Bulletbobb



Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Posts: 168
Location: California, USA

Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just happened to look at this thread and would like to toss out an idea I've experimented with in sports astrology, and which might work in horse racing, about which I know almost nothing. I actually mention this in a thread on the Stuporbowl, but I'll mention it here as no one is interested in that game anymore.

As I understand it, one of the big problems with horse racing is you have to pick one horse from a dozen or so with the same race time, and thus the same chart. There may be a partial way to get around this: simply relocate the chart to the home location of each of the horses and judge accordingly. If a number of horses have the same, or almost the same location, then I imagine their birth location would also work. I've never tried this with horses, but it works in sports, so I don't see why it wouldn't work.

As to what method you would use to interpret the chart, I cannot say. Never tried it. In sports, the 'relocated' team goes in the first, and the first six houses, including the 4th (usually), and the 10th, go to them. I imagine the 7th would refer to the other horses (open enemies).

To test, pick a major upset and check both the winner and the looser. In sports you work with the looser, but in racing it might show best with the winner. Their relo chart should be lit up like a searchlight.

Bulletbobb
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jimijamesandtheblueflames



Joined: 03 Oct 2018
Posts: 72

Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John,

With regards to house systems, it's my view that campanus is the one to use for the type of astrology that we do. That's because it puts the prime vertical at the location of the chart.


Quote:
Astrologically, predicting when the favourites win is likely to get a high percentage success rate but could produce a loss financially.


Personally, I've never really looked into the astrological significators for favourites. Although what you say is quite true, if you're doing win singles, that is. If I'm backing favs, I'll usually put them into a win multiple, but to be honest, I'm looking for value. I'm more likely to have an each way bet on a 20/1 shot in the hope that it's going to at least place. If your getting 1/4 of the odds on a 20/1, your still making a +4 point profit, or +3 if your getting 1/5 of the odds. It's worth remembering that an each way bet is in fact 2 bets - a win and a place. If you get the place, you lose the win part of the bet but at least you still get a return. That's why you get +3 or + 4 and not +4 or +5. Personally, I only do e/w single on something that's 4 or 5/1 or longer. But any multiple that I place is always e/w.


Quote:
I heard somewhere that if a bet on the Premier League champions winning all their home games would have a resulted in a financial loss over the season but the percentage success would have been reasonably good.


Any of the top 4 or 5 teams (and Arsenal..!) are normally odds-on to win at home. Man City for example are normally 2/7 or 2/9 ON to win at home and they're usually fairly short away too.

Quote:
In this arena, it’s knowing when to play or pass with a prediction which influences both the percentage success and the profit.


I agree, if I cast a chart for a race, and I do most days, I only need a cursory glance to see if that chart will reveal anything. And quite often it doesn't. Then again, I don't claim to have a system that wins 100% of the time. The system that I use - a hybrid version of JAM - gives me a slight edge and I don't really hope for anything more than that. However, I do compare my astrological selections with pro tipsters and I'm at least on par with them in terms of winning percentage. Certainly, I'm ahead of them in terms of profit, taking places into account. Having said that, I use the astrology as an added 'tool' - I also take stats into account. But, without question, it certainly adds to one's winning stats, be they percentage or profit.

Trainer Ruth Jefferson has had 16 wins and 22 places from 74 runs, a 22% win rate. On a £1 stake, you'd be £74.75 in profit. On the other hand, Dan Skelton has had 115 wins and 268 places from 727 runners. The win % is similar, 21%, but you'd be £35.16 DOWN on a £1 stake. Most of Skelton's horses are usually in the first 3 or 4 in the betting, so it doesn't always pay to back favourites.

I seem to remember a thread that argued against JAM because it produces too many placed horses. My argument then as it is now is that if you get a 20/1 placed horse at either 1/5 or 1/4 odds is better than a win at 6/4.
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Vas



Joined: 06 Jun 2018
Posts: 52

Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

skyrack wrote:
This is what I have:

There Is No Point (IRE) 166
Too Scoops (IRE) 166
Court Dismissed (IRE) 165
It's A Mans World 164
Heist (IRE) 161
Watt Broderick (IRE) 158
Good of Luck 158
Hairy O'malley (IRE) 151


Scale: 15
Sepharial PoF: 166.12696708213
Signifier: Moon
Measure: 28.104294630689
Certain
Proportions: 2.3420245525574 5.1579754474426
Indicated: 163.65797544744 156.15797544744

array (size=Cool
'It's A Mans World' => float 0.3420245525574
'Court Dismissed (IRE)' => float 1.3420245525574
'Watt Broderick (IRE)' => float 1.8420245525574
'Good of Luck' => float 1.8420245525574
'There Is No Point (IRE)' => float 2.3420245525574
'Too Scoops (IRE)' => float 2.3420245525574
'Heist (IRE)' => float 2.6579754474426
'Hairy O'malley (IRE)' => float 5.1579754474426

Selections:
It's A Mans World

But as I say, I have some updates to do to bring it into line with my post this morning.

If you have anything different from my Signifier, Measure, Proportions and Indicated let me know please.


Just curious, how do you get the numbers indicated in bold please?

https://www.sportinglife.com/racing/racecards/2019-03-30/gulfstream/racecard/518871/race-5-stakes
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