I have been practicing horary now for about ten years and fairly recently I have had more questions myself than from others. I have posted a few times here regarding my son/grandson. My daughter died aged 21 and her baby boy was just 10 weeks old. Since then my wife and I have looked after him with love and affection. He grew up fairly normal and healthy. When he was 16 he developed bi-polar disorder and has spent months in a mental hospital over the last 9 years. At the moment he is in another hospital because there aren't any beds available in the local hospital. He was in the local hospital for a month and whilst his condition did not improve he was allowed to return home with a night pass which was given to him by the doctor and he was to return to the hospital the day after for an assessment to be valid for home treatment. His condition got worse as he was determined not to go back. My wife phoned the hospital and asked if he could return a day later and that was agreed. He got home on Monday and on Wednesday two men came and talked to him for 10 minutes and decided he should go to the hospital. He refused and 2hrs later 2 police cars and a van arrived with 8 policemen who after a struggle hand cuffed him behind his back and it took all 8 of them to get him into a cage in the van. That terrible experience has made him worse. We saw him yesterday and he didn't understand why he was in hospital at all. I cast a chart asking the question ?will J ever live a normal life?? I don't know if that question is the one that is the most helpful to my wife and I. I am in a quandary in which is the best kind of question to ask in a situation like this. Perhaps my friends here can indicate a more appropriate question to be asked. Also if I am asking the question am I always the ascendant ruler? Is he taken as my son or grandson? He calls me his dad and my wife his mum. Does it matter which one I use. Can I ask a question and give J the Ascendant ruler? In my question I feel it is inappropriate for me to have the ruler of ascendant and the moon, when the question is not about be but about J. Any advice will be appreciated. My question was asked at 4.15pm Edinburgh today. 4Deg 02m Virgo.

Stan

IT is very helpful most as a decumbiture sort of horary.

Mercury is in fall, conjunct neptune and chiron.
The physician- 7th does not have an aspect with the patient(1st) and it is in the 12th( Jupiter in leo in 12th) but the patient is totally dependent upon him(mercury in pisces).

The medicine/ treatment- Venus is in detriment and the 10th house is conjunct Caput Algol.
That is why he has figuratively lost his head and in detriment in what is supposed to be a treatment.

Moon applies to a trine of Venus the physician(correction:medicine)- so when the psychiatrist is actually able to see the patient- he may decide otherwise about his confinement.I am not sure how willing the psychiatrist is to reconsider as jupiter is retrograde.

PD

Very sorry to hear this. Personally I think you, as the querent, should retain the signification of the ascendant, and you should not remove yourself from the horary because you are involved in this situation, and perhaps your relationship with your son/grandson is significant.

In your first post you referred to him as your son/grandson - you clearly think of him as your son and this is surely what he is - your raised him from a baby. He thinks of you as a father, so I would give him the 5th house signification that would normally be applied when a querent asks about a son (we don't change that for an adopted son).

However, I don't favour the usual recommendation given in many modern horary texts that the Moon always co-signifies the querent. This is often the case when the focus of the question falls upon what the querent should or should not do, but if the focus of the question goes to something or someone else then the Moon's signification is more connected to the quesited.

I really feel for you in this difficult situation because obviously stress does not help his condition at all. But you know you have asked a very big question there - will he *ever* live a normal life? What is normal anyway? (I understand that it is really his happiness you care about). Because you are emotionally involved, I wonder whether you would be able to detach yourself enough to be able to see beyond the immediate problems, and whether it might be better for you to ensure that any horaries you ask about this are specifically about matters that are a dilemma for you (e.g., should we do this for ....? Would it be better for ..., if this or this was done?, that kind of thing). Also, maybe a better astrological approach towards supporting him at difficult times would be to keep an eye on his nativity, watching out for the times that are likely to be stressful, etc.

In regard to the signification in your horary though, the key thing is that it ought to describe the situation as you understand it. The ascendant is at 4 Virgo, governed by Mercury. Can you relate to this - and how does the signification of the 5th house and ruler relate to what you know of your son? The horary needs to make sense to you from what you see in the chart; if it doesn't, put it aside for now - it might make more sense when your mind is not so much focussed on the concern of recent events.

Best wishes
Deb

Thanks Deb and PD you both were very helpful. My wife and I are just feeling drained. We saw him tonight and alas there is no improvement or maybe worse.

Stan

Stan, you wrote:

I cast a chart asking the question ?will J ever live a normal life?? I don't know if that question is the one that is the most helpful to my wife and I. I am in a quandary in which is the best kind of question to ask in a situation like this. Perhaps my friends here can indicate a more appropriate question to be asked.

With horary, it is best not to ask a question until you absolutely know for sure what your question is, and why you need to ask it. Now is probably not the right time - you are emotionally drained and confused, and even if you knew what to ask, under these circumstances it would be very difficult for you to be both the querent in need of help, and the astrologer who provides it. I am sure your quandary must resolve, to some extent, around whether it is better in the long-term for your son to "stick with the program" but my suggestion in the short term is to give yourself some time to get over the shock and rebuild your own emotional strength, and put the astrology aside until you have made some sense of the situation and how you feel about it.

I saw a good article on the internet yesterday after responding to this thread, and to some extent it made me think of you and how you want to be able to offer the right support, without knowing exactly what that should be. It is based on one person's experience of bereavement, but the tips she offers apply to anyone feeling responsible for the care of someone else.
What it means to ?hold space? for people, plus eight tips on how to do it well

My suggestion is to focus on regaining you own balance and emotional strength right now, try not to ask a horary until you know exactly what to ask concerning the role you have to play in this yourself.

I agree that you should leave astrology aside for the time being.There are a few things to be aware of when caring for someone else and one of them is - what to expect.

Most of the sick, with this malady, would relapse- so the main focus should be on the remission and identifying early signs of a relapse.
Bipolar is a mood disorder but it can have a psychosis component as well.The disease itself takes away the insight, so in a way , the insight has to come from the carer.Don't try to take on all the responsibility on yourself, if there are local support groups take their help as well.

PD

Stan,

I am so sorry to hear about your grandson. Mental illness is such a scourge. I agree wholeheartedly with Deb's suggestion to let the matter and your emotions settle a bit before casting a horary. Whenever a client or I are in a similar state of agitation and uncertainty, I recommend the following:

1. Take a few days or even weeks to figure out what your specific concerns are.

2. When you come up with a potential question, test it first by asking yourself: "Will the answer help me make a decision to act one way or another?" If not, then the question is probably not that useful and merits rethinking. In other words, see if the answer, whatever it is, is actionable for you in a concrete way. You will likely know more as your grandson is assessed and the health care providers make recommendations for his future care. That will be the time for you to make decisions, and the time for horary.

Kindest regards,
Nina Gryphon