The Whale! The Showdown!

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Hi Folks,

I like to give the big recurring aspects names. It is either a Whale or a Showdown. Perhaps it was a Whale and now it'll be a Showdown due to Neptune's retrograde action this time.

So we have The Whale in the Room which is the Level II aspect between Saturn and Neptune. It is a square and includes Saturn changing sign.

We had The Vortex which was also Level II, the square between Pluto and Uranus.

And The Mule which was the inconjunction between Saturn and Uranus. This would be a Level II.

This post is about The Whale. As we speak it is beginning to weaken and on the 15th March Saturn turns retro. By late July it is at its weakest before beginning to reform for a great show down on the 27th November.

It reforms twice in 2016.

Brady reckons that The Whale is a serious ill health aspect, but Newman reckons that the inconjunction is worse.

Ofcourse late last week we had the Greek German brinkmanship over their Debt. That fits well with the order of Saturn against the freedom or chaos of Neptune.

Any further observations ?

H
Last edited by WooWoo on Mon Aug 17, 2015 10:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Roll Up ! Roll Up !

The Main Event

Saturn clashing with Neptune now on and off till late 2016!

I have started trying to understand how the BIG SHOW DOWN between Authority/ Order / Restrictions/ Wisdom and Chaos/ Delusion/ Creativity/ Intuitive Insight over the next 18 months will shake out! (Worth noting that the ECB bond buying is scheduled to run over this period).

Saturn started trying to net Neptune in Nov 2014 but there was so much going on with The Vortex then that nobody including me noticed. So a good starting point to understand this is early Feb 2015 this year and I think the themes then were; Greek election fall out, EU deflation, ECB Bond buying plans, Oil price bottoming out.

NB whenever some of Pluto, Neptune, Uranus and Saturn start to tussle with each other you are going to get long protracted sagas!

Since late Feb 2015 the focus on those has started to ease due to the fact that Saturn is now retreating and loosing power. The Greeks seem to have escaped German?s wroth, Draghi has opened the flood gates against Frankfurt?s wishes, Oil has recovered a bit (?), and EU deflation bottomed perhaps (?). The latter two in the short term maybe as they may find themselves in the middle these next 18 months.

Why this lengthy analysis is needed and all comments welcome is that the next 18 months are confused by Saturn?s move back into Scorpio, and then return back into Sagittarius for the duration. This means the German attitude is going to seem to wax and wane in a difficult to understand way. Until Sept when it?ll become as clear as ice and as cold.

Well worth getting your head around this as there will be crises in late autumn 2015, early summer 2016 and very early autumn 2016, each with a different outcome. Knowing those dates allows bets to be placed.

The reason I am bouncing this off you is that just as Saturn is easy to understand Neptune is INCREDIBLY HARD to do so. I pity poor old Wolfgang trying to deal with the Greeks! Neptune is said to run the show when it comes to; Excess money supply, Sovereign Debt, Deflation/ Inflation, Oil/ Chemical Industries, Contagion, Lies/ Deception as Delusion on a grand scale. BIG ENERGIES!

So it is clear have only having had limited success in mid Feb 2015 from late July 2015 the powers that be are going to try again to ?deal with? Neptune. Deal with the Greeks! Till then it is necessary to watch very carefully what is going on and NOT to be fooled. ALL IS NOT WELL. Effectively we have till August to get our heads around this as things will swing around quick enough then for the FIRST SHOWDOWN!

CORRECTLY CALLING WHAT STARTS TO HAPPEN IN AUGUST 2015 AND PEAKS IN LATE NOVEMBER 2015 IS THE MONEY MAKING OPPORTUNITY FOR THE YEAR!

Saturn moving back into Scorpio will confuse things. This is like a Farmer trying to catch an escaped wild Cow, but with a fence in the way. The situation changes as the Farmer climbs in with the Cow and changes again when it moves out. Don?t take that further as it might be vica versa; better for the Farmer to stay outside the field. Because with Saturn in Sagittarius as it is now March 2015 suggests Interest Rates to rise and Commodity prices to increase, but when it retreats to Scorpio those ideas become less likely. NB If the Feb increases in June it will immediately realize that was a mistake.

However, when Saturn closes in again on Neptune August onwards that might make it less likely for Interest Rates and Commodities prices to rise easily. Or for that NOT to be a good idea. You see things could get very, very complicated these next 18 months and a miss step by Central Banks could make things a lot worse. It may even be that Interest Rates rising become incredibly effective and Commodity prices rise rapidly from August onwards.

Simplifying things we should note that Saturn and Neptune clashing is a VERY NEGATIVE event and things will NOT go as planned for sure. Once Saturn is back in Sagittarius in September all will be clearer.

You can argue that we have a battle between how Deflation and Sovereign Debt should be dealt with. The German austerity at all costs verses the Draghi/ Greek creative but targeted loosing. I repeat that the ECB action lasts at minimum 18 months as does the battled between Saturn and Neptune. KA-CHING!

Coming back to how difficult this is to read and read it needs to be is how different things are in the USA but they will have to deal with similar contradictions.

Saturn and Neptune are squaring each other which means that those who have prepared well can mostly skate thru these times. THEORETICALLY! How well is Europe built to deal with this? How well is the USA? We?ll certainly find out these next 18 months.

I fully expect the Germans to go completely mental in late July thru to late November. And completely refuse to budge one inch (or millimeter even) when it comes to Draghi, Greece, Spain and Italy. NEIN and that doesn?t mean another NINE Billion Euros (an old one).

HOW THAT SHAKES OUT UP TO THE 27th NOVEMBER IS THE MONEY MAKING OPPORTUNITY. Astro is very clear that the Germans will win the first SHOWDOWN hands down. What happens in 2016 may well be different.
Ok the process of writing the above has helped clarify things.

It helps to break things down more. Saturn changes sign. Saturn and Neptune interact with each other. If we take them separately Saturn?s changing sign from Scorpio to Sagittarius and then back into Scorpio, before finally returning finally to Sagittarius suggest urges to increase interest rates and rise commodities prices, before loosing that need, and then again gaining it.

While those changes are going on Neptune is getting in the way. So the urge to increase interest rates will be confounded by Neptune, while the loose of the urge will be further strengthened as Saturn retreats from Neptune.

I think then the time up to the end of July look increasingly positive. While the period after July increasingly troublesome. Ironically Investors look like they will be staying away from Investing during the first period but will be more likely to Invest later in the year.

Basically we have a showdown between two very big forces till mid Sept 2016. This will play out in many walks of life across the globe. At least till Xmas 2015 it is the only big theme to be watched.

To understand these forces you have to try to image two diametrically opposite energies. In Europe it is sort of the Lutherian North verses the Patriarchial Catholic Orthodox driven South. Two Worlds that will never meet. You need also to try to find similarities in the USA. It may well be the S verses the reset of the World. You need to look at the Ukraine too. Order verses Chaos! Rigidity verses Creativity? Hard facts verses Illusions?

From the starting point of early March we have four months and ten days of loosing till 20th July followed by four months and ten days tightening till the 27th November. My feeling is that the first period will be pretty positive for equities with increased liquidity and reduced chances of interest rate rises. Neptune is free to increase deflation. Those are the themes that a retreating Saturn suggests especially as it is freed from Neptune?s confusion.

The second period will see reduced liquidity and increased rates even though they will be confused by Neptune?s increased influence. Why will there be tightening from late July through to late November? Very hard to tell but it could be because it seems the liquidity is working so well or that it is completely failing and making the situation worse.

It is possible to dig deeper into to other factors affecting Traders and Investors. Traders will come and go in their enthusiasm. Investors look like they will be staying away till later in the year. That suggest the latter part of the year will be positive. Further, the Eclipse at the end of March will start a positive phase. Loads of contradictory energies.

Star Gazer, Sussex/ Surrey Border, March 2016

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Hi Folks,

So Saturn is now applying towards Neptune. This will be the event of the year now. Peak showdown on the 19th Nov 2015!

But Heh! is this a difficult one to understand.

We had a dry run earlier this year but now Neptune is now retrograde.

I wonder just what a difference that will make ?

That is the question? Would there be a significant material difference with Neptune retrograde compared to when it was direct in January ?

If so how ?

H

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Hello Again.

The question is similar.

Saturn is now applying or will apply to retrograde Neptune. The exact of the square occurs when Neptune is very slow having just turned direct.

I'm really interested to learn of the nuances of these situation.

What is the difference between Neptune direct in Pisces and it retrograde? Which is the stronger planet?

A LOT depends on this in terms of World events and World progress.

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Hi Folks,

I use the big aspects to model world events and so again I'm worried to see that the next Saturn Neptune square falls when Neptune is stationary retro and Saturn reasonably strong in retro motion.

Such a hard aspect to understand, as it is meant to be, but for one it just drains and drains energy and resources.

For me it has much to do with OPEC and Oil; and with ECB liquidity programme.

It is as if Saturn is desperately trying to tie down Neptune but every time she nearly gets him he turns and wriggles out of her hold.

The final clash is in Sept around the 10th and that is a more standard head on affair.

H

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hi rocko,

i think you make some interesting observations - you or the person who wrote what you shared earlier... deflationary price of oil and the financial confusion regarding greece sure seem to connect with the saturn/neptune square... i think the issue of refugees flooding europe also are a part of this. i like what you or the article said - someone is trying to bring order and someone else is trying to unravel any order they might..

i think there are always agendas running at cross purposes, but perhaps 2015 and even 2016 will continue to appear with this as a dominant theme.. oil will remain depressed, finances will remain shaky and the world will seem to be suffering thru a general malaise that is hard to pinpoint. i think the tension in the middle east with ISIS which has been interestingly tied into oil sales and support from major oil players seems also quite connected here... using a mercenary type group to undermine the sovereignty of another country seems to be a part of it too.. it is hard to know the bigger plan here but i note turkeys recent incursion into iraq seems to be an attempt to open up another possible qatar pipeline - this time thru iraq - as the one thru syria has been essentially blocked by russia..

i sort of see this saturn/neptune square foreshadowing the other conjunctions in 2020 i have been discussing on the mundane thread.. and actually talking about this square can be approached from a more mundane angle as opposed to the personal - which is sort of what your post from march of 2015 was doing! at any rate - thanks for wanting to initiate a conversation on this. and i see i am on the mundane forum after all, LOL!

here are a few additional thoughts.. saturn is in the upper square to neptune here... it is like trying to build a structure on quicksand essentially! but i do think that saturn has a type of upper hand in establishing the long term goal of the saturn/neptune conjunction.. i like to think of these planetary combos working out from the conjunction and back again to a new one.. the last conjunction interestingly enough was in the 88/89 area.. we can think about that and try to tie it in with what is going on here and i think it will give more insight.. it is always complicated by other factors, but is worth considering regardless..

in terms of national charts and countries - egypt and russia seem to resonate strongly with this planetary combo.. there may be others - but these 2 for some reason stick out in my mind....

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I feel I had a bit of an insight into this one. It is meant to be the ill health aspect. My feeling is that the two kick hell out of each other and eventually find a sort of harmony.

If you look at what is happening with the Oil supply that is what is happening. You can only smile that these countries like Saudi and Russia saved up all their profits from the Oil price boom but by the time these two planets have finished with each other in Oct 2016 nearly all those reserves will be spent.

My take on this aspect is that huge amounts of energy are spent and little gained.

I wonder now if the squares between Saturn and Uranus and Saturn and Pluto have very profound levelling affects too?

Does Saturn really border the subconscious and try to order it ?

H