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Flatangle Charts - High quality charts
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jventura



Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 294
Location: Portugal

Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

astralwanderer wrote:
I would prefer an open source solution to these issues, perhaps with a cross platform astrological program developed by the community. It would be really exciting to bring together astrologers and programmers in this way to create a piece of community led astrological software that is accessible and high quality built around FOSS standards.


Hi Ed,

the problem with open-source is that sometimes we just don't have enough developers. For instance we would need about 40 programmers to contribute 1h per week to match a programmer working 8h/day - assuming that they would know the source code entirely.

Most open source projects only have one or two developers, therefore it is really hard to keep up, and most of the times the quality and design gets poorer. For instance, compare the output of pyMorinus (a known open source software) with the output of Charts:

.

To reach the design of my charts, I had to dedicate some 1,5 months working full time. This would be really hard for open-source developers to replicate. Unfortunately, our community is small and we don't have that number of developers.

Personally, I would enjoy to reach a stable solution where I could open source more of my astrology code, and still make a living out of this. But for now, what I can do is share some knowledge, like the simpler formulas for Primary Directions that I've published at http://blog.flatangle.com/.

But my wish would be to go the open-source route, maybe some day! Smile



zoidsoft wrote:
I think the only thing stopping the big astro companies from doing this is the profitability margin (if anything) so don't get too proud Joćo - it can lead to a fall and you'd be finished before you even got started.


Hi Curtis,

I get what you are saying! Smile That is why I am not trying to compete directly with any established software company or developer.

For instance, I do not aim to compete with Solar Fire: their software tries to be a little bit of everything to everyone, but is not great at anything in particular. For instance, Martin Gansten in his Primary Directions book even points out that SF has some errors regarding its PDs module. I wonder how many astrologers failed predictions because of it..

Also, I am not competing with your Delphic Oracle. Your software is specific for astrology since Hellenistic to Traditional and you have to support many features that I don't use, such as time lords, etc.

In my personal case, I made a clear differentiation decision (http://blog.flatangle.com/2014/why-differentiate/) to target only Traditional Astrologers which appreciate well designed graphics and minimalist interfaces.

Contrary to the "big players", I'm not trying to be good enough to all possible astrologers, but the "best" (regarding my goals, of course) to a really specific niche. I'm a traditionalist, so it is only natural for me to support the techniques that I/we use in traditional astrology. Also, I do really enjoy well thought graphics and interfaces, that is why I do a lot of sketches and take too much time on small details. Finally, I'm a minimalist and strong believer of "less is more". My software is just my own view of what I think Traditional Astrology software should be.. Some will agree, some don't! Smile


Thanks,
Joćo Ventura


Last edited by jventura on Tue Dec 23, 2014 5:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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jventura



Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 294
Location: Portugal

Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello everyone,

I just made a small update to Charts: It now includes a Settings tab which allows users to select the House System.

Current house systems are:
- Alcabitus
- Regiomontanus
- Placidus
- Koch
- Porphyrius
- Campanus
- Equal
- Vehlow Equal
- Meridian
- Azimuthal
- Polich Page

You can find Charts at http://apps.flatangle.com/Charts/.


Follow Flat Angle on Facebook!

Now you can also receive news about Flat Angle on Facebook. Do "Like" on my facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/flatangle) to receive news about Flat Angle on your Facebook feed. You can also use Facebook for questions or suggestions!


Enjoy and share,
Joćo Ventura (http://www.flatangle.com/)



Last edited by jventura on Tue Dec 23, 2014 4:01 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Astraea



Joined: 04 Oct 2004
Posts: 351
Location: Colorado, USA

Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice! Thank you, that's lovely.
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Chris Brennan



Joined: 22 Sep 2005
Posts: 193
Location: Denver, Colorado, USA

Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is really nice!

I have a few questions:

1. Is there any way that you could add whole sign houses as an option? This is one of the main traditional systems of house division.

2. Could you add an option to export the chart images as PDF files?

3. Do you plan to integrate an atlas of some sort eventually? Or would that be too much of a hassle given all of the complications surrounding that?
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jventura



Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 294
Location: Portugal

Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Chris,

my answers to your questions below:

Chris Brennan wrote:
1. Is there any way that you could add whole sign houses as an option? This is one of the main traditional systems of house division.


I'm not completely familiar with it, but it seems that "whole sign houses" implies slight changes to the chart's graphics. For instance, House 1 is not the Ascendant, and the Asc/MC are new objects than need to be "inserted" in the chart.

However, I may try to implement it! I've also received some emails and Facebook messages suggesting to implement it. Could you post here an image or hyperlink to a "whole sign houses" chart which you would consider to be graphically correct? If you could also comment the major differences, that would be great! Smile

Chris Brennan wrote:
2. Could you add an option to export the chart images as PDF files?


Currently, there are two solutions for exporting a chart to PDF, and one is even quite elegant! Both are possible because I'm using standard web technologies.. I'll write an article explaining both approaches on Friday.

Chris Brennan wrote:
3. Do you plan to integrate an atlas of some sort eventually? Or would that be too much of a hassle given all of the complications surrounding that?


Yes, an Atlas is in my plans. Smile


Thanks,
Joćo Ventura (http://www.flatangle.com/)
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Chris Brennan



Joined: 22 Sep 2005
Posts: 193
Location: Denver, Colorado, USA

Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jventura wrote:

I'm not completely familiar with it, but it seems that "whole sign houses" implies slight changes to the chart's graphics. For instance, House 1 is not the Ascendant, and the Asc/MC are new objects than need to be "inserted" in the chart.

However, I may try to implement it! I've also received some emails and Facebook messages suggesting to implement it. Could you post here an image or hyperlink to a "whole sign houses" chart which you would consider to be graphically correct? If you could also comment the major differences, that would be great! Smile



Yes, that is correct. In the approach I prefer, the cusp of the rising sign always stays fixed on the horizontal axis, and then the degree of the Ascendant moves and can be earlier or later within the rising sign itself. Similarly, the MC moves around the top part of the chart, and can fall in any of the houses in that hemisphere. So, basically you would have to make it so that the cusp of the rising sign was always a fixed point, and then the degree of the Asc and MC would move around like sensitive points in the chart, sort of like the Part of Fortune.

I just emailed you a few example charts to show you how a chart that uses whole sign houses is typically supposed to look. If you want any additional background information on whole sign houses then here is an article I wrote on it a few years ago:

http://horoscopicastrologyblog.com/2007/06/10/whole-sign-houses/
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astralwanderer



Joined: 20 Dec 2012
Posts: 140
Location: Southwest England

Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 8:25 am    Post subject: Ascendant vs. First House Cusp Reply with quote

Hi there - the question of the differentiation of the ascendant and first house cusp (and MC and tenth house cusp) in software is an interesting one. I've noticed that some programs fail to do this and it causes problems with display and other calculations such as progressions and directions. So for example, instead of progressing or directing the ascendant, the calculation routine progresses the first house cusp as if it were the ascendant.

Joćo - in your app you might want to look at this question if you implement whole sign houses (which would be a great addition by the way). For example, I use meridian houses, and I notice that your app correctly calculates the first house cusp in this system (the equatorial ascendant) but doesn't display the ascendant for the latitude of the place. The first house cusp and ascendant are very unlikely to coincide using the meridian system.

Similarly, with equal house in your app, the first house cusp=ascendant and this is shown correctly, but the MC is omitted.

If you implement Morinus at some time, the tenth house cusp and first house cusp are extremely unlikely to coincide with either the MC or ascendant respectively.

I don't know how you are calculating MC and ASC and the first and tenth house cusps but it might be worth reviewing your code if the assumption is made that the ascendant=first house cusp and MC=tenth house cusp. There are number of house systems where this assumption is not true.

By the way, to have a choice of house systems in your app is an excellent development.

All the best. Ed
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"...the motions that are akin to the divine in us are the thoughts and revolutions of the universe."

Plato, Timaeus, 90.
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jventura



Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 294
Location: Portugal

Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 12:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Ascendant vs. First House Cusp Reply with quote

Chris Brennan wrote:

I just emailed you a few example charts to show you how a chart that uses whole sign houses is typically supposed to look. If you want any additional background information on whole sign houses then here is an article I wrote on it a few years ago:

http://horoscopicastrologyblog.com/2007/06/10/whole-sign-houses/


Hi Chris,

thanks for the chart examples and for your article! I was unaware that some house systems separated the Asc/MC from the 1st/10th house cusps. My house system of preference is Alcabitius, which does not have such differentiation, and other house systems such as Regiomontanus or Placidus do not have it as well.

My software currently makes that assumption, therefore it may take a while before I can implement it correctly, but I will definitely do it!


astralwanderer wrote:
I don't know how you are calculating MC and ASC and the first and tenth house cusps but it might be worth reviewing your code if the assumption is made that the ascendant=first house cusp and MC=tenth house cusp. There are number of house systems where this assumption is not true.


Hi again Ed,

yes, my software currently assumes that Asc=House1 and MC=House10. I'll be doing some more updates to the app in the next few weeks, but I'll "rethink" my code to break that assumption.

By the way, could any of you, Ed or Chris, provide a link or a small list of the most used house systems that you are aware of for which that assumption of houses1/10 = Asc/MC is not true? Whole sign houses and Equal houses seem to fail for that assumption, are there any more?


Thanks,
Joćo Ventura (http://www.flatangle.com/)
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astralwanderer



Joined: 20 Dec 2012
Posts: 140
Location: Southwest England

Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 7:33 am    Post subject: House Systems Reply with quote

Hi Joćo - thanks for your reply. To answer your request:

Quote:
By the way, could any of you, Ed or Chris, provide a link or a small list of the most used house systems that you are aware of for which that assumption of houses1/10 = Asc/MC is not true? Whole sign houses and Equal houses seem to fail for that assumption, are there any more?


The information is best set out in table and I don't seem to be able to edit html code in this reply so can't create a <table>. I will try and send you a personal message with the information.

Ed
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"...the motions that are akin to the divine in us are the thoughts and revolutions of the universe."

Plato, Timaeus, 90.
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astralwanderer



Joined: 20 Dec 2012
Posts: 140
Location: Southwest England

Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 7:41 am    Post subject: HTML Reply with quote

I don't think the PM function will help as the html editing also seems limited.

The main ones that I know of are as follows:

Equal
Meridian
Whole Signs
Morinus
M-Houses
Meridian Whole Sign
Carter's Poli Equatorial

Some of these are quite obscure. I guess your top priorities are Equal, Meridian, Whole Signs, Morinus.

I think it would be helpful for you to have the table that I prepared. Can we exchange an email? I don't really want to publish my address on here though.

Ed
_________________
"...the motions that are akin to the divine in us are the thoughts and revolutions of the universe."

Plato, Timaeus, 90.
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jventura



Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 294
Location: Portugal

Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 10:27 am    Post subject: Re: HTML Reply with quote

astralwanderer wrote:

Some of these are quite obscure. I guess your top priorities are Equal, Meridian, Whole Signs, Morinus.

I think it would be helpful for you to have the table that I prepared. Can we exchange an email? I don't really want to publish my address on here though.


Hi again Ed,

I received your email, thanks for the table! Smile
Following your suggestions, on a first approach I will focus my attention on the Whole Signs and correcting my implementation for the Equal and the Meridian house systems. As per your table, my implementation seems to be incorrect either for Equal (on the MC) and Meridian (on the Asc).

As I've mentioned, it will require a slight change in the implementation, but since my code is quite modular, I guess it will be relatively easy to implement them.

On a later approach, if time permits and people find it useful, I may try to implement 'Morinus' house system, and take a look at the others.


Thanks again,
Joćo Ventura (http://www.flatangle.com/)
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astralwanderer



Joined: 20 Dec 2012
Posts: 140
Location: Southwest England

Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 10:36 am    Post subject: Email Reply with quote

Hi Joćo -

Thanks for the confirmation of the email. Get in touch if anything is not clear. I think you've got the priorities right. Whole sign is a really important system, esp. in classical and hellenistic astrology. Chris B will be really pleased to see it in your charts app, as will many others including myself.

Ed
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"...the motions that are akin to the divine in us are the thoughts and revolutions of the universe."

Plato, Timaeus, 90.
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jventura



Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 294
Location: Portugal

Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello everyone,

I would like to let you know that I've published a new article in my blog. In this article I show, step-by-step, two approaches to create high quality PDF publications with Charts.

You can read the article at http://blog.flatangle.com/2014/charts-pdf-publications/.

These approaches allows us to create astrology publications similar to the following image, and a PDF example can be seen in this file.



I've also made a small video which can be seen at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1bxBOa7y4s.


Enjoy and share,
Joćo Ventura (http://www.flatangle.com/)
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Martin Gansten
Moderator


Joined: 05 Jul 2008
Posts: 1268
Location: Malmö, Sweden

Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks again for all your work, Joćo. I hesitate to add to your list of requests, but as you are explicitly targeting traditional astrologers, I wonder if you have considered including a wheel showing the terms (or bounds, as some prefer to call them)? They would be especially useful to people working with directions through the terms.
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3479
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi joao,

thanks for sharing. i like the look of the charts. i went to your site to see more about how it works. i made a chart and was able to save it as an svg file onto my computer.. i agree with another poster - it would be good to include whole sign houses.. i would also like to see that the equal house system included the midheaven with a point showing it on the chart for those of us who like using equal house system. at present you don't have that either..

regarding the svg files.. i am not versed in computers well enough to know, but i can tell you that svg is not a file that i can easily convert - i am unable to convert it actually - so that i could show you what the chart looks like.. for that i need it to be a jpg type file.. not sure what svg is, but that is what i get when i save the chart made from your software to my computer..

thought you might like this feedback, so i am sharing it..

cheers james
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