I am unsure about a conjuction

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I did a chart and the two significators were in the same house and same sign. Sun a significator was 23 deg Saturn not a significator was 25 deg and Venus a significator was at 28 degrees. The Sun is conjunct Saturn and Saturn is conjunct Venus. But is the Sun conjunct Venus also? Without Saturn interfering the Sun and Venus would be conjunct. If there was an aspect between Sun and Venus it would be a yes in answer to the question. Is this an emphatic no then?

Stan

2
Hello, Stan!

To decide whether the Sun is connjunct to Venus or not, you must define the orb you are using. I, persoanlly, when it comes to horary astrology, use wide orbs, and I would see this case of yours as a conjunction.

Notice that Saturn is not a significator of your question and therefore it has no part in the yes or no answer, even if standing in between the two significators. If it was a swifter planet, however, like, Moon or Mercury, you would have a case of translation of light between the Sun and Venus.

Taken from the Glossary of Skyscript:
Translation of Light

Translation of light is where a planet separates from one significator - by conjunction or aspect - and immediately applies to another (whilst still within orb of the planet it is separating from). It carries the influence of the former to the latter and thereby creates a connection between them. Some references suggest a need for the transferring planet to be received by the planet it is separating from or applying to.

Lilly writes of translation (CA., p.111)

Translation of light and nature is, when a light Planet separates from a more weighty one, and presently joins to another more heavy; and its in this manner, Let Saturn be in 20. degree. of Aries: Mars in 15 of Aries, and Mercury in 16 of Aries; here Mercury being a swift Planet separates from Mars, and translates the virtue of Mars unto Saturn.
Best Regards
Yair Alon
Kabbalist

Re: I am unsure about a conjuction

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stanstar wrote:I did a chart and the two significators were in the same house and same sign. Sun a significator was 23 deg Saturn not a significator was 25 deg and Venus a significator was at 28 degrees. The Sun is conjunct Saturn and Saturn is conjunct Venus. But is the Sun conjunct Venus also? Without Saturn interfering the Sun and Venus would be conjunct. If there was an aspect between Sun and Venus it would be a yes in answer to the question. Is this an emphatic no then?
To see whether the matter will be completed, you need the perfection of the application to conjunction or aspects of the significators without interference of other planets.

So it would be more precise to word that:
the Sun is applying to a conjunction of Saturn
Venus is separating from the conjunction with Saturn, and
Venus had been in separation from the Sun when applying to Saturn, from whom she is now separating (see above).

In your example the quesited will not be fulfilled, because there are no perfected conjunction or aspects of the significators.

Re: I am unsure about a conjuction

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stanstar wrote: But is the Sun conjunct Venus also? Without Saturn interfering the Sun and Venus would be conjunct. If there was an aspect between Sun and Venus it would be a yes in answer to the question. Is this an emphatic no then?

Stan
While it may seem like a complicated situation, it is still a stellar position that can be unraveled by using standard astrological tools.

I agree with Yair Alon that, in order to determine whether two planets are actually conjunct (in general), the orb needs to be determined first. That said, a luminary with a gigantic moiety and a planet only 4 degrees away from it are definitely conjunct. In terms of the influence of other planets onto any of the significators, the situation isn't really hard to crack, is it?! Multiple conjunctions and stelliums generally suggest that the energies of different planets melt in the same pot (the sign/house) and, whenever we find a ruler in a stellium we actually have MORE informations about the object,activity or person ruled by it which makes the initial step of delineation easier that usually, wouldn't you agree?

However, when it comes to the activities promised by the aspects in such a tight multiple conjunction, the situation seems somewhat complicated. But, even then, there is no reason why standard rules should fail to deliver the answer. The answer is, more or less, hidden in the speed of the planets.
In cases of the so called "rolling conjunction" where a faster planet leaves a slower planet behind and applies to another slower planet, we actually have, as Yair Alon mentions, a clear example of a TOL; the planets may be squezeed into a very tiny space but they still behave like any planetary trio in which one of the participants translates the light from the point A to the point B allowing the other two participants to establish a connection. It's a mediator.
In this particular case, however, we have the slowest planet in the middle, one planet applying to it (as well as to the third planet) and the third planet moving away from the slowest planet. In order for the Sun to complete the aspect with Venus, it needs to hit Saturn first which, again, qualifies this as a form of prohibition.

All this is not to say that this type of planetary trio is exactly the same as a trio connected by squares, trines or sextiles. The proximity of the other two planets is surely saying a lot about the situation because, Sun and Venus are conjunct. Only, in order to be sure that the application will result in a desired activity, we need to see them partile conjunct with no interference from another planet. And that, in this chart, is not the case.
Unlike in a situation where the planets are brought together by larger aspects, here, we can assume that the proximity says that the Sun has already established a form of communication with Venus- bodily aspects suggest a very intense contact but, Saturn is even closer and prevents them from joining.

In addition, the nature of the planets should be taken as important as well because here, you also have two combust planets.

Cheers,

aglaya
Last edited by aglaya on Sun Nov 16, 2014 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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stanstar wrote:Hi Aglaya, thank you for your comments. So are you saying that the answer is an emphatic no?

Stan
It's hard to give an answer in a nutshell although, theoretically speaking, this is a prohibition. It would be good to know the nature of the question and to have some bits of the background story - the analysis would then make more sense. Because, for what it's worth, we don't even know if some of the planets represent a person or an activity.
The proximity of the planets already suggests that the connection between Sun and Venus is very tight and intense but, it's the nature of the situation that will say what this closeness implies and how this prohibition is most likely to play out in reality.
Like I said, if this were a question about a professional choice and if the Sun were L10 then we'd actually have a handful of very useful informations - by examining the influence of all these planets onto the sifgnificator we'd actually have a more precise picture of the profession. But, if one of the planets is applying to the significator of the desired activity and we have an interposing planet then, yes, the planet in the middle acts like a STOP sign and it would be important to determine where this influence is coming from.

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I think I need help in posting the chart. I always have this difficulty. Is it my age? I followed Goca's instructions too.
Goca gave the option for Direct links for layouts in the forum. Where do I find that?


Stan