The Poet and the Muse

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http://i59.tinypic.com/333xx91.jpg

This is the chart for the retrospective question, "What Caused Our Failure?" with an interpretation.

The question is asked by the muse. This relationship continued for more than two decades despite a separation of more than ten years, but never became a romance.

I believe this chart shows us what was happening at the time of the couple's final separation due to the poet's death, so the first event I look for in this chart is the final one in this relationship. I read the retrograde chart as I would a death chart. We look for the Moon's previous aspects to explain the action of the chart.

Turning the chart is critical in this horary. When I say, "his first house," I mean the radical seventh, etc. The death of the quesited is indicated by the Lord of his Eighth, Jupiter, in his first house. L8 in an angle in the western part of the chart reads as death. Jupiter has just squared both luminaries, another strong indication of death on the chart. The significator of the quesited, Moon, although essentially strong, is with Algol, indicating the poet's violent death while he is still in good health. In fact, he died in a jeep rollover at age 41.

The querent's significator, Saturn, is within the orb of the fixed star Zuben Elakrab in Libra, seeking justice or balance. She carefully takes the measure of the quesited. She's just survived a nightmare marriage and is unlikely to welcome an unrealistic romance.

What has motivated the poet to once more pursue his muse? His feelings toward her are indicated by the essential dignities of the Moon. The more points given to Saturn at 25 Taurus, the more he loves her. At 25 Taurus, the poet has no love for the querent at all.

The poet's dignities are shared between Venus and Moon, with Jupiter dignified by terms. At 25 Taurus, Mars is in detriment, so the poet has no sense of the ordeal his lady has been through. He loves love, he has dignity, but she is not in the picture. Venus in Scorpio is in detriment and here she is combust the Sun, debilitated by the ruler of the intercepted sign within the poet's first house. The muse (querent) tells us that the poet has never been capable of discussing his feelings for her with her directly, but can only go through an intermediary--you guessed it, a female (Venus combust the Sun means this woman is virtually a slave to the poet's active Leo-intercepted imagination. She rules his third of communication). When he is not able to approach through the Venus go-between, he expresses himself in songs, as his inflated Leo Jupiter of fantasy rules his creative expression of his fifth house, as well as his sixth.

His indirect approaches have never been effective. The only aspect between Moon and Saturn is an opposition, the last aspect of the Moon in her current sign, indicating the final separation of this pair.

Jupiter in the poet's first house indicates his inflated imagination. The poet has a rich fantasy life. But the sign of Leo intercepted in his first house shows he can't express himself directly enough to convince her his feelings are real--in fact, the muse's doubts have been proven correct by this chart. We don't know how he felt long ago, but by the time of his death, essential dignities show he's a love addict who uses his pent-up frustration (intercepted Jupiter squares Moon and rules his fifth and sixth houses) to fuel his creativity. It's a time-honored literary tradition; the poet longs for the muse, but she turns him down because he's really in love with love, not her. So he goes off and writes her another song. . . and on and on it goes.

The muse, who entirely lacks essential dignity, is pretty practical about all this. She senses a romance with the poet will not succeed, but behind her cold Mars-wounded Saturn exterior, she carries a hint of passion. She is in the terms of Venus. She knows the world needs love songs. Saturn at 24 Scorpio shows her respect for the poet's imagination, indicated by Sun, dignified by face. She politely acknowledges his fantasy, but it does not move her to action.

Ah, the evil cold-hearted muse. How dare she demand more of love than a song?
"Id rather learn from one bird how to sing than teach ten thousand stars how not to dance"

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Ah, the evil cold-hearted muse. How dare she demand more of love than a song?
That is probably what made her his muse in the first place - she was a hard to get. Who knows what would have happened if she'd said YES to him the first time!
The detriment is certainly very intriguing in this chart which is why I was eagerly waiting for your update on her feelings- I really wanted to know how she described her feeling for him.
And the opposition probably says that they were supposed to be either enemies or separated lovers. Ah, so sad...

(I'm sorry to hear that he dies so young, I had an older person in mind). :-cry

Btw, do you have any knowledge on his behaviour apart from this relationship - did he have any additions? I'm asking because Venus is burnt by Sun and it would be interesting to know if it resulted in any other twisted Venusian activity!

Cheers,

aglaya

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Hi, Aglaya

Thanks for your interest. Which detriment did you mean? In Scorpio, Venus is in detriment, and Moon is in fall. The advances of the Venus go-between were not appreciated, and the Moon poet was powerless.

As for her feelings for him, she says she was terrified her ex would find out about their contacts and take it out on him. Her ex had threatened him in the past. She was so worried about Mars, she didn't consider the Moon so much. Leaving an abusive marriage is always a volatile time.

Muses of great artists, as you say, are known for their refusals. Some say this dynamic is the seed of romantic art.

She says she feared that if she'd said yes the first time, he would have simply satisfied himself and moved on to someone new who could give him that falling-in-love feeling he was addicted to. She accurately assessed he was in love with love, not with her. Ironically, her refusal made her the one woman he would never forget.

I would say the poet proved to be addicted to love, and possibly also to performance, which equates to an adrenaline high. He was known to drink,although he still maintained a successful career. He publicly admitted to multiple addictions, but did not specify what they were.

He was known to be a creative genius, which might be described by the interception of Leo in his first house, and Jupiter in Leo ruling his fifth of creativity. As for the action of the Sun/Venus combustion--were you thinking maybe shades of grey? Hard to confirm. They never did become lovers, after all.

The muse mentions the woman who was a go-between, represented by Venus. She is combusted by the Sun--driven by his fantasy life. She may have felt wounded by being put in the position of intermediary between the two. Venus is in the fall of the Moon, so she probably thinks the whole thing is a bad idea on the poet's part. The muse does not think she acted very gracious or even friendly, but rather annoyed.
"Id rather learn from one bird how to sing than teach ten thousand stars how not to dance"

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Which detriment did you mean?
Sorry, I should have been more precise!
I meant - the placement of L1 inside the detriment of the Moon.

There's one more interesting thing:
As for her feelings for him, she says she was terrified her ex would find out about their contacts and take it out on him. Her ex had threatened him in the past.
I mentioned in the other topic that the squares that Jupiter casts on both significators are potentially suggestive of the abusiveness in her domestic life (coming from the 7th- being hurt by her husband) on one side but, also of the misery that her relationship with the other man must have brought to the Quesited (having his feelings hurt). However, now that you have shared all these additional details, it turns out that he was literally exposed to the other man's violent behaviour; his body was in danger just like his emotions. Again, thanks for the updates on these aspects.
She says she feared that if she'd said yes the first time, he would have simply satisfied himself and moved on to someone new who could give him that falling-in-love feeling he was addicted to
One poet once said- Believe me, you never want to meet the women that we write about, you'd probably end up being disappointed both in poets and their poetry. :)

As for the action of the Sun/Venus combustion--were you thinking maybe shades of grey? Hard to confirm. They never did become lovers, after all.
No, not necessarily. For what it's worth, I wouldn't even treat it as a form of deviant behaviour (sex habits, more likely) but, your latest post actually explains it - Venus blinded by the Sun literally caused him to be blinded by love. And, probably, as you say, being constantly in love with love, rather than worth the Querent.

However, one big question remains open in my head- why would she want an answer to a question that, herself, is actually the only one who can deliver it!
She's a quirky woman! :)

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I hadn't thought about the seventh as being the ex-husband. I was using it for the poet. Where would you put the ex-husband if the poet is the seventh?

Also, could you offer more clarity about this saying:
"One poet once said- Believe me, you never want to meet the women that we write about, you'd probably end up being disappointed both in poets and their poetry. "
?

Initially, the muse's reason for asking this question was to get an objective look at the nature of the relationship. The public is pretty convinced that she made a mistake in how she treated the poet. Of course, the public wasn't there. Art is sometimes much more persuasive than life.

Thanks!

Spirlhelix
Last edited by spirlhelix on Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Id rather learn from one bird how to sing than teach ten thousand stars how not to dance"

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spirlhelix wrote:I hadn't thought about the seventh as being the ex-husband. I was using it for the poet. Where would you put the ex-husband if the poet is the seventh?
Well, generally I wouldn't but, with the interception inside the 7th, I assumed that the chart was descriptive of her "other parties" in general. The Cusp rules the Quesited whilst the interception and the planet that affects the two parties in a negative way (squares), tells us more about another male influence in her life that she probably couldn't eliminate from the picture (in other words, that another male person was, in a way, included in this story).
Also, could you offer more clarity about this saying:
Well, I can't be his advocate but I assume that he wanted to say that he was aware of the fact that poets don't find their muses only among smart and beautiful women - sometimes, it's just a woman who they can't have. :)

Aglaya

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The poet was widely known to have had a highly complex or even a dual personality, which may tie in with the Leo interception in his first. He was also known to be highly private about his personal life, which might be indicated by the same interception.

I feel inclined to look to the querent's eighth (which I normally use for exes) for the former husband, although I think his impact on her may be found as Mars in her twelfth.

I'd be cautious assigning the Jupiter squares to her ex-husband--with Jupiter Lord of the poet's 8th, and this chart focused on his separation from his muse by death, suddenly we find ourselves looking at a homicide!
"Id rather learn from one bird how to sing than teach ten thousand stars how not to dance"

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spirlhelix wrote:The poet was widely known to have had a highly complex or even a dual personality, which may tie in with the Leo interception in his first. He was also known to be highly private about his personal life, which might be indicated by the same interception.
!
Now, this is a jewel that i appreciate! Astrologically speaking, of course!
You know, for years I didn't know what to do with the interceptions- I just didn't know how to read them properly. At a certain point, I started thinking that I should probably switch to using whole house system because, if I'm unable to deciphre an element of the chart, I probably shouldn't be using it at all. Like most other astrologers, i used my own charts to deciphre the most complicated equations however, at the age of 23, and that was when I took up learning astrology, and even in my late 20es, I just didn't have enough life material to deciphre the interceptions in my Natal chart. Later, the story started to unfold step by step and I soon realised that the interceptions indeed, often talk about duality. Very interesting!

Leo Intercepted in the First of Quesited

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Thanks, Aglaya, for your thoughts about interceptions.

The Leo interception is interesting from the viewpoint of traditional astrology, because on the Leo side of the axis, the interception is indicated by both the luminaries; while on the Aquarius side, both the signs of Capricorn and Aquarius are ruled by Saturn. There's still a duality, but with only one ruler, the effect on the querent's personality is more seamless.

Either of the lively luminaries is a pretty great contrast with the heavyweight planet Saturn, which may explain in part why these Moon/Saturn romances look so imbalanced from the start.
"Id rather learn from one bird how to sing than teach ten thousand stars how not to dance"