Practice - pregnancy chart

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Hi, everyone!

I'm sharing this pregnancy chart for practice if anyone is interested. Now, with all sorts of tests and medical exams, we don't get to see many of those, anyway. :)

The Querent is aslo the official astrologer in this case. The Question was asked by another astrologer, a practitioner of about 5 years and a Horary student of 6 months now, with not much experience in delineating Horary charts.
Had I known about this Question, I would have strongly advised her against casting this chart for at least 10 good reasons (2 of the most important reasons being: lack of experience and obvious emotional involvement/lack of objectivity) however, she only informed be about it when the chart was already made and "delineated" by her.

So, she is 32 and single. She has had a longer affair with a man whos relationship/marital status is, in her words, complicated but, technically, he is occupied. She terminated the affair about 10 days prior to this Question as it had become too much of a burden. Apart from being a bit sad, they are both very kind to each other even now.
However, it wasn't until 10 days after their official separation that she remembered that the last time they had sex, they noticed that one of the condoms had accidentally slipped off (I didn't go into details). AT the time, they decided to simply wait and see what happens. But, in the meantime, the circumstances had changed, she was on her own (although she knew that she could still count on him to a certain extent) and she freaked out. That is when she cast the chart. She said that it was still too early for a pregnancy test.
So, the "accident" happened 10 days before the question and her next menstrual cycle was due sometime between 19th and 25th October (her cycles are not very regular).

Here's the chart. The question is "Am I pregnant?"
Image

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Greetings, Aglaya.


First off, let me say that I have very little experience in reading an inceptional chart. So this is veeery loosely based on my knowledge of Hellenistic astrology.


My Verdict: I am tempted to say yes, most likely the querent is or will be pregnant.

Firstly, we see the Sun representing the querent, in fall. This shows her distress or depression. Libra is considered by Valens as "productive of fruits". I think this may have something to do with being fertile. Conjoining the Sun is Venus in her domicile. Venus is a fertile planet, so this increases the native's fertility (represented by the fallen Sun). Next we think about Mercury. It is influenced by both a barren (Sun) and fertile planet (Venus), so it should be middling, but Venus is more powerful in this sign than the Sun, so Mercury will veer towards fertility as well. Also, the fact that Mercury is in quartile with a fertile Moon (I'll elaborate on this later) with the Moon in superior position increases Mercury's fertility as well. I know, both planets are technically combust, but like Martin Gansten, I do not see the Sun's rays as a black hole; my experience does not agree with it.

Next I examine the ruler of the 7th sign. Saturn is in the 4th, a place that is associated with children according to Schmidt's Facets of Fate. Saturn is in a fertile sign, but is not well-placed. This perhaps shows that her lover is fertile during the act, but is not receptive towards having a family with her. The fact that the Sun and Saturn are not in any aspect also shows this aversion.

Now we know that both of them are somewhat fertile during the union. Next we look for the universal and accidental significators of children. There are two universal significators, Venus and Jupiter (actually Maternus would consider Mercury as well). The accidental significators are many, but let's just consider the 5th sign's domicile ruler. That would be Jupiter again, along with Mars. Venus is fertile, and Jupiter is in its trigon but in a barren sign. More importantly, Jupiter is in the Ascendant! This should be a clear testimony of pregnancy.

Mars is not a problem, because it is of the sect in favour and in a good house, the Good Fortune. Dorotheus even considers Mars as a supportive factor in child-bearing!

Finally, let us observe the Moon. It is of the sect in favour, in her domicile, but in a bad house, the Bad Spirit. The Moon is the natural or universal significator of the native, so she also indicates the mental state of the querent (12th house is associated with depressed of fearful states of mind due to unfortunate experiences). Another important reason to consider the Moon is that, according to Valens, it signifies conception/pregnancy. In fact, the Moon is used in several pregnancy techniques by Valens. The Moon is above average in this chart, and is further supported by Venus through the quartile. Furthermore, it is in a fertile sign.


I have not considered all the relevant factors, but these factors led me to believe that yes, she was probably knocked up.

Let's wait and see what happens. :)



Larxene Xenohart
Interested in Hellenistic astrology? Visit my blog.

The appearance changes, but the essence remains.

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Hi Aglaya,

Lilly says (p 228 of Christian Astrology): "You may ever predict true Conception, if the Sign ascending be fixed, and a Fortune therein placed, or the Lord of the fifth strong in the Ascendant or tenth House." All conditions are true here: Fixed sign (Leo) rises, Jupiter in the Ascendant. Jupiter also rules the 5th house, and is in his triplicity and term. Pretty nice!

And, as if that were not enough, the Sun (ruler of the Ascendant) sextiled Jupiter recently, AND just separated (by 1' of arc) from Mars in the 5th house.

I am curious to know what the applying Moon-Mercury square indicates.

Best wishes,
Nina
Nina Gryphon

ninagryphon.com
Your questions answered.

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Getting a Big Yes for this chart.

From a Whole Signs perspective, Jupiter, Lord of 5th (Children) perfects the matter being in the 1st house Querant (Potential Mother). Part of Fortune dwells in 4th house (Father) alongside Saturn, Lord of 7th (Lover), indicating that her lover is about to become a Father. This is supported by Mars, Lord of 4th dwelling in 5th house, indicating his role in the pregnancy. Co-significator Moon is dignified in her own sign, indicating the fertility of the Querent. Venus, Lord of 10th (Success) and the fertile sign Taurus conjuncts The Sun in Libra and is dignified as ruler. Looking at the favorable aspects without being degree specific, Venus sextiles Jupiter (increased fertility), Sun sextiles Jupiter (increased vitality), Moon trines Fortuna (fertile luck), Mars trines Jupiter (force of proliferation), and Jupiter squares Saturn (busted/slipped condom).

Saturn is without dignity, having left his post-coital high or Exaltation behind in Libra with Sun who is Fallen there. Venus and Sun are also damaged Via Combusta, further magnifying her distress and misery. This indicates the falling out between the couple, as well as the nature of their illicit relationship as the 3rd house is cadent. 4 planets in cadent houses might also indicate the accidental causes of the pregnancy, perhaps the negative consequences of parenthood looming in the minds of the parties involved, and the need to keep the matter hush hush.
Last edited by Ninneveh on Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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At first, I thought, L5 in 1st house - job done, it's a 'yes'. A closer look though is giving me some doubts, especially after reading some of Lilly's aphorisms on this site.

Venus as the dispositer of L1 is combust a sun in fall and as general significator of fertility, combustion surely not a positive indicator.

AC in a barren sign.

Using WSH, sun is also cadent, moon is cadent, though essentially dignified.

Although they don't perfect, L5 can 'see' Saturn, the great malefic (though saturn is also L7 here).

It seems a major debility having mars having separated from L5, mars afflicting the 5th house and then aspecting debilitated sun in mars detriment.

I don't know, it just seems like there is a lot of debility in the chart and very little reception/ aspect. Yes, L5 is in 1st house but in a barren sign and mars is afflicting the 5th house.

It will be interesting to see whether the simple fact of L5 being in the 1st house is the overriding testimony despite the apparent negatives in the chart as a whole.

Thanks for sharing the chart.

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Hi, everyone!

I'm really glad so many of you find this chart interesting. I find all answers very interesting- I'm almost sad I can't participate in the discussion. :)

I posted this chart for a good reason, of course. Or in even better words, for a few good reasons. The symbolism is very clear in it, there are a lot of very descriptive details and, at the same time, it's a nice example chart for practice as it has many separating aspects - when it comes to such questions, it is always a matter of good judgement to decide whether they represent passing influences in terms of a "NO" ("No, she won't find out that she is pregnant, the whole story is a matter of past") or in terms of a "YES" ("Yes, she is pregnant, she conceived two weeks ago which is indicated by a separation orb of 2?").
In addition, I intentionally mentioned that the Querent lacks enough practice and experience in case someone, for any reason, thinks that the chart is not radical. (That could be the answer too, aye?!).

Anyway, I'll post the answer in a few days just in case anyone else decides to share their thoughts.
Larxene wrote:First off, let me say that I have very little experience in reading an inceptional chart. So this is veeery loosely based on my knowledge of Hellenistic astrology.
If only every astrologer with very little experience in Horary were able to provide such a thorough and nice analysis as yours! :'
Firstly, we see the Sun representing the querent, in fall. This shows her distress or depression.
True, this captures the attention right away, doesn't it?!
but like Martin Gansten, I do not see the Sun's rays as a black hole; my experience does not agree with it.
A very, very intriguing detail in this chart!!!!
Technically, the planets next to the Sun are combust. But,even if we decide to reduce the strength of this influence (for any reason), the situation still remains very complex. Just look at it- Mercury is burnt but, then again, it is widely accepted that this planet tolerates the heath of the Sun better than most other planets. On the other side, we have a burnt Venus but, that same Venus is in her own domicile (which increases her essential powers). Finally, the Sun himself is weak which makes you wander- how capable it is of damaging a very strong planet. Quite interesting!
Ninotchka7 wrote:Lilly says (p 228 of Christian Astrology): "You may ever predict true Conception, if the Sign ascending be fixed, and a Fortune therein placed, or the Lord of the fifth strong in the Ascendant or tenth House."
When I received the email with with chart from the Querent/Astrologer, the short introduction was followed by this exact quote. I'd say that she based her whole reading on it. I'm glad that you're mentioning it.
Ninneveh wrote:Part of Fortune dwells in 4th house (Father) alongside Saturn, Lord of 7th (Lover), indicating that her lover is about to become a Father. This is supported by Mars, Lord of 4th dwelling in 5th house, indicating his role in the pregnancy. Co-significator Moon is dignified in her own sign, indicating the fertility of the Querent.
It's interesting that you mention the 4th house as indicative of fatherhood. I may also want to add the Querent and her lover work in the same organisation which also activates the 4th/10th axis, I should have probably mentioned that.
Meredith wrote:Venus as the dispositer of L1 is combust a sun in fall and as general significator of fertility, combustion surely not a positive indicator.

AC in a barren sign.
I actually tried to make a list of positive and negative aspects (based both on their natural value and astrological aphorisms)- indeed, it turns out to be almost 50-50. Silly chart!

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aglaya wrote:...On the other side, we have a burnt Venus but, that same Venus is in her own domicile (which increases her essential powers). Finally, the Sun himself is weak which makes you wander- how capable it is of damaging a very strong planet. Quite interesting!
Not to mention that the Sun is in Venus' domicile. Maternus said something to this effect: if someone invites you to their house, and they have just received good fortune (gifts, work promotion, etc), you will also partake in their joy and delight. However, if the host is depressed and attacked by diseases, by associating with them you will also be lowered by their condition.

In elections Dorotheus says that the Moon signifies the beginning whereas its lord signifies the end. However, this principle doesn't apply only to the Moon (based on what I read in his book, if I remember correctly).

Thus, I am thinking, maybe she's depressed about the situation now, but perhaps the end will be good. She may actually be happy about the pregnancy (assuming it occurs) in the end. The Moon being its own lord is also saying a similar thing (it is above average in this chart).



Larxene Xenohart
Interested in Hellenistic astrology? Visit my blog.

The appearance changes, but the essence remains.

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Hi,Aglaya

Thank you for sharing us this good horary case , Would you tell us the data of Chart ? Since the image of this horary chart was too small to recognize it . Thank you !

Ming

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Hi, MingWei.

I don't know why you can't see the image in full resolution, when I open the page, it's quite large. The data is in there, they're no secret, of course:

16th October 2014
01:02 (AM), Pula, Croatia
13e50, 44n52

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Hello, Aglaya,

Thank you for your information. I have no idea as well why the imagine was very small in my Mac computer ( by the way , it was a safari explorer )

I am a student in horary astrology ,and glad to practise what have learned ,so thank you for providing this good case with a lot of details. And I am a Chinese and English is not my mother language. I try to correct my word usage and avoid using disapproving and offensive words or phrases or expression. If I make any mistake or unpleasant thing please forgive and help me .

Ok. Let?s be back to our querent and horary chart.

The querent was represented by the 1st lord the Sun ,and partly the Venus and Mercury , and Jupiter , also the Moon.

From these hints ,her temperament was combined by Sanguine and Choleric and I imaged she was happy ,friendly ,optimistic, enthusiasm, energy and rapid action but sensitive and cries easily to shed worries and anxieties (page 15-16 of on the Heavenly Spheres ).

She was fresh-faced (who looked like younger than her actual age ), graceful,beautiful, petite , and yellow, smooth hair.

I inferred that she did not have much mind to get marriage at that time ,since the Moon was in quartile aspect with the Sun ,Venus ,and Mercury and the Sun in his fall sign. The Mercury hour was not according to Leo ascendant also indicating the querent's complicated and conflicting thoughts and moods.

The female planet Moon in her domicile sign Cancer, and Cancer was a water sign . All of these clues indicated much power of emotion and feels and domestic affairs , the family.

Nina has given us a good and clear reasons which suggested she would be pregnant.

The further and interesting thing is the Sun and Saturn was in the same degree different sign ,and the Moon casting her light to both of them. It inspired me that they might be reconciled because this baby!

I hope I am not wrong in the prediction of this horary chart :-D and waiting for your feedback ,and thank you for this case again and reading my post .

Best wishes

Ming