The quesited, let's call him "Raul", is someone who I have gotten to know over the past couple of years through talking here and there.

We have a very unorthodox relationship. If we're not off and hating each other, we're happily on. If we're not down in the dumps, we're up on cloud nine. We're cray!

Awhile ago, we had a disagreement. What he said to me was surprisingly appalling.

Here is the chart, I am Mars in Scoprio plus the Moon in Leo.
He is Venus in Leo plus the Sun in Scorpio.

The Moon in the 9thH, conversely his 3rdH 'describes' my objective. I want to ask questions of him personally, only questions, because I have some, that pertain to our 'relationship'.

I don't know how he could but if this gentleman, Mr. Venus in Leo, finds my attention unwelcome, I have nothing further I wish to discuss with him at this time. As Mars in Scorpio, it is personal to me, merely an inclination I have to make it so.

I have a, sort of vague, question in mind: "What conclusion can I draw from his actions?"

Pre-thanks

Hi Becca

It would be good if you could take ownership of this Horary and offer some interpretation as you understand it beyond listing some significators. It would also be useful to clarify your question, or the background to his "actions" and the background and nature of your relationship to this man. For example why you assign to him the Sun - also the Sun is in Virgo here not Scorpio.

Becca wrote:The quesited, let's call him "Raul", is someone who I have gotten to know over the past couple of years through talking here and there.

From this quotation and the rest of your text I understand your relation with Raul not as a (sexual) relationshp (7th), but 'only' as a friendship (11th).

If this is correct, then you should not take the Sun as his cosignificator, because he, together with Venus, can act as co-significator only in relationship questions in a sexual sense.

Paul, I did not see your text before now - mine was not meant to double yours.

Hi you guy

He 'barked' at me privately once, saying that I should not think that I have some entitlement over him, so since then, I have been indecisive about giving him a label. I got the impression that he did not want to define our relationship because he likes his freedom.

We started off as 'friends', so we have always had an 11thH link. When our relationship progressed, my Solar Return chart had a 7thH emphasis. My natal placements describe him, the circumstance of how we met and of how this relationship has advanced.

I assign to him the Sun because this man is a lover, someone who I have a carnal interest in.

& right you are, Paul - Virgo, not Scoprio!

johannes susato wrote:

Becca wrote:The quesited, let's call him "Raul", is someone who I have gotten to know over the past couple of years through talking here and there.

From this quotation and the rest of your text I understand your relation with Raul not as a (sexual) relationshp (7th), but 'only' as a friendship (11th).

if someone's asking about a relationship, it's a 1/7 dynamic.

johannes susato wrote:If this is correct, then you should not take the Sun as his cosignificator, because he, together with Venus, can act as co-significator only in relationship questions in a sexual sense.

I see no reason to take Sun or Venus regardless of house rulerships. this idea that we take Sun as the man, Venus as the woman in relationship questions was borne out of an ancient astrological principle that dates back to Babylonian times and is unfortunately not well explained in modern texts. the central observation under discussion here is the synodic cycle of Venus, where Venus is said to be the consort of the Sun. the Sun was seen as the masculine principle of virility, and Venus the feminine principle of fertility and reproduction. the relationship between Venus and the Sun was used to measure mundane cycles of fertility in general and although it may well have practical mundane applications, it has little to no relevance in traditional horary judgment. when we have a good relationship between Venus and the Sun, what we have is something similar to a good Moon phase.

it is also critical to note that in these Sun/Venus references, the relationship under scrutiny is exclusively the one between Venus and the Sun. no other planet is considered, because again -- this is entirely about Venus' synodic cycle. to put this into practical terms, the querent is female. we wouldn't look at L1 to signify the querent, and then to the Sun and/or L7 to determine relationship success. for that we still look at the 7th ruler only.

Paul wrote:Hi Becca

It would be good if you could take ownership of this Horary and offer some interpretation as you understand it beyond listing some significators. It would also be useful to clarify your question, or the background to his "actions" and the background and nature of your relationship to this man. For example why you assign to him the Sun - also the Sun is in Virgo here not Scorpio.

and Becca, Paul's right on -- we need to take an active role in the interpretation of our own charts.

Paul was crystal clear in his instructions to me, Wca.

I am going to add my interpretation later. Making this thread during a void of course Virgo Moon was at a terrible time, I guess.

To tell you the truth, I casted this chart on a whim, wca. Hopefully you'll still let me know what you think tho. I would love to hear some of Paul's thoughts, in regards to the Sun/Venus issue in general, as well.

Hi, everyone!

I belong to those who don't see Sun and Venus as the most relevant planets here.
Depending on the nature of your relationship, you should first assign the appropriate house to the other party. Although you say this is your "friend", I see no reason why he shouldn't get the 7th regardless of the nature of your relationship (the other person whom you confronted some time ago). On the other hand, if he is, indeed, a friend, you might want to consider assigning the 11th cusp to him. This way or the other, he is ruled by Venus and you get Mars.

Making this thread during a void of course Virgo Moon was at a terrible time, I guess.

Is the lack of your interpretation echoing this VOC?

In addition- "What conclusion can I draw from his actions?" is not really a clear question. Usually, we only draw conclusions when we have enough evidences and informations and that is exactly why we cast Horary charts. Now, whilst one doesn't need to be very smart to understand that the underlying question here is "What is the nature of his reactions?", the question still remains unclear because it is hard to tell as to what you intend to do with this information.
If you only want to know why he said some of the things that he said then, obviously, separating aspects and past activities hide the answer as they are most likely to describe the nature of the past events. However, having said that, a chart cast for the moment of your last conversation might be a better tool than a Horary chart - it would clearly describe the situation and you would get a better picture of his impulses and their reasons.

If, on the other hand, you believe that his past reactions represent his general attitude and feelings for you then you should probably focus the question in that direction and examine his relationship with you rather than a single element of it.


Cheers,

aglaya

aglaya

I'm going to let your words speak for me. I underlined what I should have and wanted to say but had difficulty with.

aglaya wrote:In addition- "What conclusion can I draw from his actions?" is not really a clear question. Usually, we only draw conclusions when we have enough evidences and informations and that is exactly why we cast Horary charts. Now, whilst one doesn't need to be very smart to understand that the underlying question here is "What is the nature of his reactions?", the question still remains unclear because it is hard to tell as to what you intend to do with this information.

If you only want to know why he said some of the things that he said then, obviously, separating aspects and past activities hide the answer as they are most likely to describe the nature of the past events. However, having said that, a chart cast for the moment of your last conversation might be a better tool than a Horary chart - it would clearly describe the situation and you would get a better picture of his impulses and their reasons.

Thank you for this.

Here is the chart, This isn't a Horary so I'm not sure how to start reading - Natural significators? Accidental rulers? Natural rulers? Angular planets?

Becca

You have posted three times since I have asked (and others reiterated) the need to take ownership of the chart - your latest post being the inclusion of another chart, similarly uninterpreted.

I would encourage you to read carefully the forum guidelines:
http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7260

Paying particular attention to this part:

The purpose of this forum is to facilitate discussion amongst horary practioners and committed students, but it is worth noting that it is not designed for the general public or the merely curious. Members submitting charts for discussion with just a few basic signification notes and asking other members to offer their thoughts on what the chart means are not encouraged in this forum as our focus is on facilitating discussion wherein members develop their own recognition of chart meaning. This forum is not designed as a free chart interpretation service so such posts may be deleted without warning, including contributions from other forum members. We ask all members to keep this policy in mind and not to respond to requests for chart interpretations.

In your next post please provide an interpretation for the charts you have submitted focusing primarily on the original Horary chart. Otherwise I will either lock or remove this thread.

Paul

Okies, Paul. Here goes..

Et al, let me start off by saying that I now realize this will be out of order cos the original Horary chart bears a conclusion that we can gather only after interpreting the subsequent "of the moment" chart in my fourth post here. The original Horary chart could actually be a faux pas, as I mentioned to Wca.

In the original chart, post number one's, I am Mars and he is Venus. I follow the train of thought that the Sun and Venus can be paired with each other as 'secondary' significators plus mixed with other 'primary' significators in the context of our particular relationship.

Isolating Mars and Venus alone, I see that I am in my domicile while Venus is in a dignity of mine making an upcoming aspect. I take this to mea that he will make contact, only for me to find his msg offputting and tense, considering our previous one. I question whether Venus is him imprinted upon the chart, cos in the detriment and 7th of relationship but also that of 'open enemies', along with Venus' dual rulership over the 11thH, it suggests someone from a muttual social network who I do not like but who j'adores me for whatever reason . Ehhh...SO strange tho.

Anyhow...Saturn closely in conjunction with my significator, Mars, catches my eye and I wonder who or what this is. If Saturn is another girl, I find it odd for her to be keen on me but I am not worried by this interferance cos Mars in is not 'threatened', malefic Mars in domicile is a 'threat'. As far as natural significators go, if I take Sun to symbolize "Raul", Saturn is equally interested in both of us?!

When I don't perceive Saturn as a 'who' but as a 'what', I think Saturn speaks of my thoughts and a feeling of restriction in being able to express them. Maybe what I want to say to him, I am or will be having difficulty with. What's evident is that he doesn't like the way I communicate and I don't like the way he communicates in general. This is THE issue of issues - communication.

Ultimately, I think that the 'conclusion' I draw is to 'move on' and 'cool off' from "Raul" as it were after his attempts to reach out to me. His reaction will be to contact me several times thereafter to make amends, all of his advances which I reject.

The idea for an "of the moment" chart that was proposed is of greater interest to me but I'm not sure how to begin reading it.

My musing. Can someone give me a hand with the rest from here, please?