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Doryphory clarification

 
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AstroNovice



Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 153
Location: United States

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 11:30 pm    Post subject: Doryphory clarification Reply with quote

http://mountainastrologer.com/tma/astrology-as-if-the-sky-mattered



I have been brushing up on my understanding of doryphory and its many variants, and I have to admit I am still a little bit confused. So that being said, I was hoping that some of the people here that are more familiar with doryphory could confirm or deny my current understanding of doryphory as it pertains to the US natal chart.

-The US has a diurnal natal chart, so the sun is the luminary of choice.
-For doryphory regarding the sun, all planets rising oriental to the sun are to be considered as spear bearers.
-Thus the sun has three spearbearers, jupiter, venus and mars.
-Jupiter is of the same sect as the sun, and is exalted, making it an extremely powerful spearbearer.
-Venus is out of sect, but has triplicity, making it a middling out of sect spear bearer.
-mars is out of sect and peregrine, making it the weakest spearbearer, but a spearbearer nonetheless.

Is my interpretation of the US natal chart's doryphory generally correct?
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zuli



Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 83

Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose traditionalists may say Mars as Venus and Jupiter are under the sun rays.

Many may say either Jupiter as the closest one or Venus as the closest small planet.


Last edited by zuli on Sat Oct 25, 2014 11:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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john



Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 617
Location: Lancashire, England

Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am also confused as to how doryphory, or body-guarding should be interpreted.

I'll venture an opinion, on the basis that I'll be corrected, which will hopefully clarify things!!!

I know Konrad posted definitions on his post about Queen Victoria's children from Holden's translation, which appear to require the luminary to be in an angle.

By whole sign house the Sun in the example chart is not angular.

Reading Dykes ITA there seems to be five definitions for bodyguarding.
Three of the five require the relevant luminary to be in an angle.

Of the other two, Type 1 allows any planet with dignity and in an angle to be body guarded. From this, as Saturn is in the same sign as the MC/pivot, do I take this to be in an angle- and it is exalted. The aspecting planet (body guard) should be in sect, which allows for the Sun and Jupiter.

For type 1 I don't think there is a horizon consideration or angularity issue so Jupiter potentially qualifies.

I also don't read that a bodyguard has to be out of the rays in type 1, although in type 3 a body guard of the sun has to be oriental and out of the rays- which questions if Jupiter can be a body guard; but based on type 1, it appears it can be.

For type 3 I read it that the luminary can also body guard as it is of the same sect as Saturn.

I'm sure I'm about to be told I'm hopelessly wrong on this Razz
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3842
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

don't quote me on this as i am going on memory.. i read joseph cranes book on hellenistic astrology and ben dykes book ita which both discussed the issue of doryphory.. as i understand it and using astronovice's quote below i will state what i think in bold print.

AstroNovice wrote:

-The US has a diurnal natal chart, so the sun is the luminary of choice.
-For doryphory regarding the sun, all planets rising oriental to the sun are to be considered as spear bearers. true, except i think they have to be in ptolemaic aspect as well - and reverse with the moon which has spearbearers occidental instead..
-Thus the sun has three spearbearers, jupiter, venus and mars. as i know this, venus and mars can't be a spear bearer for the sun as they are not of the same sect.
-Jupiter is of the same sect as the sun, and is exalted, making it an extremely powerful spearbearer. it is more complicated by the fact it is still under the beams and perhaps not as powerful.. being in an angle is more helpful, unless one views this in the context of whole sign houses which is how it would have been viewed back in hellenistic astro as i understand it..john points this out in his post.
-Venus is out of sect, but has triplicity, making it a middling out of sect spear bearer. i don't think it can be a spearbearer - venus is of the opposite sect..
-mars is out of sect and peregrine, making it the weakest spearbearer, but a spearbearer nonetheless. i don't think it can be a spearbearer - opposite sect to what it is supposed to be a spearbearer for - the sun...
Is my interpretation of the US natal chart's doryphory generally correct?


i recall reading the article from gary caton and not being able to get my head around his concept based on my understanding of doryphory...

john says some useful things on the topic of dorphory as i understand it, one of which i already agreed with in bold above.

the purpose of having a spearbearer is to give the sect light some strength/protection and outlet for expression that the sect light might not have otherwise.. i think any time a planet can operate as a spearbearer while also being in an angle is a good thing. in fact, any planet in an angle is a good thing in so far as it is more capable of expressing it's nature. perhaps a planet in an angle, but in it's fall or detriment wouldn't be as good, but just the fact it is in an angle is net positive.. maybe someone else will comment, or i will read the books again to see what the authorities say, LOL...
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