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Thanks James,

Its very useful to have the take off chart time especially. I think this key chart should go up in a more conventional chart format too. Not everyone here will be into the 90/45 degree dial Uranian/Cosmbiology approach.

I am at work just now and cannot add much just now. But I suggest it might also be instructive to examine the following:

1 The Malaysian national chart-Two Malaysian Airlines tragedies so close together in one year is surely quite dramatic and must be reflected in their national chart.

2 The Dutch national chart. Over half the fatalities were from the Netherlands (173 out of 295 people on board the flight). So its particularly grim news for them. Its clearly a terrible event and I dont mean to sound insensitve at such a tragic time but this should give us an opportunity to look at the rival charts proposed for the Netherlands to see which best reflects this awful event.

Mark
Last edited by Mark on Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly

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hi mark,

i was motivated to look more closely at the mars/sun square as i was curious about where it landed in the chart. i was thinking this square has an obvious relation to the event and indeed in the time of the accident it shows up strongly on the midheaven. it wasn't so easy to see on the departure chart, but using the 45 degree wheel highlights it clearly by putting it right with both angles.. this seems like an obvious act of war meant to serve the purpose of those interested in ramping up more of the same.

and in the fwiw dept.. i suspect there will be an announcement of some sort very close to the waxing mercury/pluto opposition in effect at present. this aspect comes exact in the evening of july 21st - monday night... it will not be an honest message, but it will be used for an ulterior motive regardless.. lies are one of the obvious tools of war..

Image

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Fleur wrote:
To state the obvious, Mars is conjunct the Moon's north node, and on September 11th 2001 Mars was conjunct the Moon's south node.

Maybe just a coincidence.
I have noticed Mars very close to the nodes at quite a few really violent/dramatic episodes that gained world attention. The current period has a host of open conflicts going on. Of course its not just about Ukraine in the world today. Apart from Ukraine for example we have amongst others Israel-Gaza, Syria-Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, South Sudan, Somalia, Mali etc. Add to that numerous terrorist groups in Pakistan, Nigeria, Thailand etc.

Previous incidents that had Mars on the transiting nodes include:

1 The 7/7 Bombings in London on the 7th July 1995 when 52 civilians died in Jihadist bombing attacks across the city.

2 The Oslo bombing / island of Ut?ya shootings on 22 July 2011, claiming a total of 77 lives.

3 The Start of the Wall Street Crash in 1929

On the other hand Mars has been configured elsewhere in many other famous bombing/shooting incidents with high fatalities such as : the Lockerbie bombing; Beslan School siege; Bali bombing; Mumbai shootings; Madrid bombing; Oklahoma City bombing; Nairobi shopping Centre siege, etc.

As westerners I also think we need to guard against some inevitable cultural myopia in our media that often misses or demphasizes major terrorist incidents that occur in the Middle east or Africa that our media doesn't give the same kind of attention to.

For example 72 people were killed last week in a truck bombing incident in eastern Afghanistan. Who noticed?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/18/world ... .html?_r=0

Over the weekend the Nigerian Islamicist group Boko Haram killed over a 100 people in a town in eastern Nigeria.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/j ... erian-town

Or what about the Libyan armed conflict that continues in parts of the country?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/j ... oli-aiport

The selective media spotlight has largely moved elsewhere to more dramatic events in Ukraine, Gaza or Syria/Iraq.

Nevertheless, I do think Mars on the nodes does add to the potential for violent outbursts. Certainly always worth watching.

Mark
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly

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mark,

the eclipse cycles are based on the position of the nodal axis so that any close transit to the nodal axis is a transit to eclipse data which is thought to be more relevant. i am sure some astrologer could have easily said something to the effect that because stationary mars in libra is involved with the nodal axis, there is a greater likelihood of war type activities internationally and these events are more likely to take place when mars is close to the nodal axis... however, i don't recall anyone doing this - or really making a strong case for this! i realize you are aware of this, but i am sharing it for anyone else reading here.

as for the selective presentation of 'world events' in the mainstream media (msm), this has always been the case! without evening leaving ukraine we can note how the focus is on mh17 when in fact 40 or more people were killed in a small town in eastern ukraine around the same time.. now, if we are just into numbers of dead - mh17 is a lot of dead people, but ignoring all the other events where people are dying in large number is just what the msm does! this of course feeds a particular viewpoint shared by some on the nature of the media too. i don't know that it will ever change. being aware of this though is a step in the right direction.

ps - ukraine so far as i know it is the only country on your list of hot spots where the oil/gas resource is not a central consideration. i suppose one could even say ukraine is for the opposite reason it doesn't have this resource, but is instead used as one of the pipeline passages to the rest of europe..

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James_M wrote:
the eclipse cycles are based on the position of the nodal axis so that any close transit to the nodal axis is a transit to eclipse data which is thought to be more relevant. i am sure some astrologer could have easily said something to the effect that because stationary mars in libra is involved with the nodal axis, there is a greater likelihood of war type activities internationally and these events are more likely to take place when mars is close to the nodal axis... however, i don't recall anyone doing this - or really making a strong case for this! i realize you are aware of this, but i am sharing it for anyone else reading here.
I personally think Indian astrology gives more emphasis to this. That is what first made me aware of the issue. Its such a self evident truism I doubt any Indian astrologer would take credit for pointing this out! However, I think westerners are often less attuned to this.

Traditionalists would add this Mars being in detriment is also more potentially destructive than usual.

And your spot on of course that these Mars transits are activating the previous eclipse chart. The Lunar eclipse chart you displayed above with transiting Mars on the eclipse Moon at 25 Libra is a graphic demonstration of how eclipses can activate.

Over 60 years ago Charles Carter wrote:
''Nevertheless it is true that an eclipse may produce little or nothing at the time but may apparently correspond to something important but occurring some considerable time later. The most usual times seem to be when the Sun comes to the next square of the place of the eclipse, i.e., three months later, or when a planet, particularly Mars, transits the place of the eclipse."
Carter certainly knew his astrology! In this instance the Sun squares the eclipse point and Mars conjuncts the Eclipse moon.

This is activating national charts too. For example the Libra rising charts for Israel, and Argentina (world cup finalists for the first time since 1986 and riots in Buenos Aires after defeat). This eclipse also fell exactly on the MC-IC axis of the national chart for Scotland I use. :lol:

James_M wrote:
as for the selective presentation of 'world events' in the mainstream media (msm), this has always been the case! without evening leaving ukraine we can note how the focus is on mh17 when in fact 40 or more people were killed in a small town in eastern ukraine around the same time.. now, if we are just into numbers of dead - mh17 is a lot of dead people, but ignoring all the other events where people are dying in large number is just what the msm does! this of course feeds a particular viewpoint shared by some on the nature of the media too. i don't know that it will ever change. being aware of this though is a step in the right direction.
I dont know if this is fair but I have heard some of the US media is especially bad for this. More generally, there is possibly something about human psychology here too. Some murders in our own community seem to carry far more impact than say news that hundreds died in a Typhoon in SE Asia. Distance doesn't necessarily breed apathy in todays interconnected world but it can make mass tragedies like this seem less emotionally connected to our lives and our daily concerns. Human beings inevitably tend to find it easier to identity with those like themselves ie nationality, race, culture, language, religion etc. In the higher sense it shouldn't be like this and we should transcend such distinctions but in reality I think its a tall order for most of us.
ps - ukraine so far as i know it is the only country on your list of hot spots where the oil/gas resource is not a central consideration. i suppose one could even say ukraine is for the opposite reason it doesn't have this resource, but is instead used as one of the pipeline passages to the rest of europe.
Actually, I think Ukraine is the only conflict zone I mentioned (perhaps excluding South Sudan?) where Islamic fundamentalism is not a major contributory factor.

In regards Ukraine though I think Russian natural gas supplies to western European are an important underlying issue here.

Firstly, lots of of Russian gas pipelines go to western Europe through Ukraine.

http://en.ria.ru/infographics/20090609/155206402.html

Secondly, the western European reliance on Russian gas is putting those governments in a very difficult position. Especially Italy, Germany and France. Those economies are highly dependent on Russian gas imports and very vulnerable to a return to recession if they impose sanctions against Russia which result in retaliatory cuts to gas supplies pipelines.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-1 ... -turns-gas

Its noteable the most strident critic of Putin in Europe is British PM David Cameron. He is pushing the European Union to consider tougher sanctions against Russia. Economically, the UK is far less reliant on Russian gas supplies than other continental European states.

Compare Cameron's strident stance to Angela Merkel who has adopted a far more mellow tone towards Putin:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... erkel.html

http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/germa ... ine-561501

And even excluding energy considerations imposing sanctions could especially tricky for the French who are fulfilling an order from the Russian navy:

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/rus ... hds-05749/

The stories behind the headlines!

Mark
Last edited by Mark on Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly

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hi mark,

thanks for sharing. i agree with much of your post and appreciate your sharing the comment from ceo carter. i had read that before, but it is good to read it again!

the only comment i would like to examine more closely is this one below.
Mark wrote: Actually, I think Ukraine is the only conflict zone I mentioned (perhaps excluding South Sudan?) where Islamic fundamentalism is not a contributory factor.
south sudan also involves the issue of islamic fundamentalism as i understand it.. it just so happens that many of these countries that are sitting on oil/gas are also home to islam.. if a religion can be used to drive a wedge in a particular direction to pillage the oil/gas, i am sure the religion will be used. however i see this as a cynical attempt on the part of the msm and corporate powers to continue to play the game of monopoly that gets played while suggesting it is all about a problem with religion - islamic fundamentalism being the most popular kicking ball presently.. i don't buy it and as we lightly touched on in the syria/iraq and isis caliphate thread, one has to wonder if indeed isis is a useful batting ram to bring the desired results which revolve around the resources? personally that is my take....the religion is a less dominant theme made to be the dominant theme by those wanting to access the oil/gas resources.

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James M
south sudan also involves the issue of islamic fundamentalism as i understand it.. it just so happens that many of these countries that are sitting on oil/gas are also home to islam.. if a religion can be used to drive a wedge in a particular direction to pillage the oil/gas, i am sure the religion will be used. however i see this as a cynical attempt on the part of the msm and corporate powers to continue to play the game of monopoly that gets played while suggesting it is all about a problem with religion - islamic fundamentalism being the most popular kicking ball presently.. i don't buy it and as we lightly touched on in the syria/iraq and isis caliphate thread, one has to wonder if indeed isis is a useful batting ram to bring the desired results which revolve around the resources? personally that is my take....the religion is a less dominant theme made to be the dominant theme by those wanting to access the oil/gas resources.
I think you are confused about South Sudan. The conflict in South Sudan is not about Islam at all. The country separated from Sudan due to attempts to impose Islamic fundamentalism on a largely Animist and Christian population. The cause of the outbreak South Sudan civil war is complex but I wouldn't be at all surprised if the competing factions are each trying to get carve out a share of the oil wealth for themselves.

More generally, I think your analysis is too economically reductionist. Its not just about oil its about core beliefs. Something our largely secular societies find difficult to comprehend. What is going on in the Islamic world right now is nothing less than a reformation. The Salafi Sunni are seeking to reform and sweep away what they see as the cultural accretions of Islam built up over literally centuries. Unfortunately, the media just feed us bits and pieces but if you look across the whole world what is going on is nothing less than a clash of ideology within Islam.

If anything I think the media are underplaying this story. Your idea that Islam is getting a bad press from western media and real story is western media and the vested interests is a popular liberal view but it doesn't match the basic facts. How else can the media cover news stories from Mali, Nigeria, Somalia, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Pakistan where Jihadist groups fill the daily headlines?

Like or not Islamic extremism is a living breathing reality in our world and it doesn't need some oil driven agenda to get going or spread. Its culturally incompatible with western liberal secular values. Where is the oil in Mali? or Syria? or Pakistan? I could go on and on...Why are the governments of the Thailand or the Philipinnes having to fight Islamic separatists? Last time I checked those countries had negligible oil reserves.

Mark
Last edited by Mark on Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly

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mark,

clearly you have an issue with fundamental islam.. perhaps there is a place in the astro community to talk about it, but i don't know how it connects with mh17..

'''south''' sudan has been a reality for 3 or so years.. i opt to not get into a political conversation here with you.. if you want to continue with a particular focus on something connected to a particular country and the astro around it - feel free. thanks.

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James_M wrote:
'''south''' sudan has been a reality for 3 or so years.. i opt to not get into a political conversation here with you.. if you want to continue with a particular focus on something connected to a particular country and the astro around it - feel free. thanks.
Fine James. Bear in mind though you introduced the political perspective into the thread. I simply exercised a right of reply.

btw for anyone interested in the astrology of ''South Sudan'' here is the thread i opened on the topic when the country was founded. I thought the chart boded trouble then and so it has proved:

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic ... 2474fcc998
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly