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Skyscript Astrology Forum

Moon "ad vacuo"

 
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Geoffrey



Joined: 09 Jul 2012
Posts: 380
Location: Scottish Borders

Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:14 am    Post subject: Moon "ad vacuo" Reply with quote

I saw a reference somewhere in one of the postings on this forum, with reference to the condition of the moon when not making an aspect. It was an 'ancient' description, but not Void of Course.

I have always had a small question mark about Sue Ward's now accepted idea that the Moon is VOC when separated from and not applying to any aspect. Period. Traditional astrologers (on their square charts) would list the aspects of the Moon and would signify when the Moon was not in any aspect (separating or applying) with the words 'ad vacuo', and this has been interpreted as being the same as VOC. However, the definitions of VOC usually give are that the Moon is VOC if separated from and not applying to any more aspects while in its current sign, which is not quite the same.

The posting cited above referred to a different descriptor for the condition of the Moon, something like 'inhibited' but that was not the word. If someone could illuminate, I would be grateful.
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Paul
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Joined: 23 Nov 2009
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Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geoffrey

Are you just looking for the thread again?

I think you may be looking for this one:
http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7399

Or possibly this one:
http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7548
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Geoffrey



Joined: 09 Jul 2012
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Location: Scottish Borders

Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for that Paul. It was worth re-visiting what was said in the course of those discussions - but the reference I was looking for was not there, alas.

The purpose of my interest at this time is that I will be attending "Lilly Day" on 19th of July, when Geoffrey Cornelius will be discussing, "Void-of-Course Moon as the Back-Story - an impediment to judgement and how to understand it" and I am doing some preparation for this.

Chris Brennan, in his piece on VOC, said that, "It is not clear why the definition of void of course changed so drastically between the Hellenistic and Medieval traditions" and it struck me that some of the confusion about VOC could be because another form of impediment of the Moon due to being out of aspect could have been merged-with or convoluted-into the original definition of VOC to form a new and broader understanding of VOC in 'traditional' times.
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Paul
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Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geoffrey wrote:
Thanks for that Paul. It was worth re-visiting what was said in the course of those discussions - but the reference I was looking for was not there, alas.


Ah okay, I thought it might have been solitude, or wildness or some similarly based idea.

If you do find the reference, could you update here? I'd be curious what it is myself.
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Mark
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Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Geoffrey,

If you haven't come across it before I think you will find the article below very useful in the context of the Moon as a transmitter of planetary influences through contact by orb. It explores in some depth Lilly's definition of the void of course and his use of the "ad vacuo" concept citing examples.

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/moon2.html

Also a collection of definitions of VOC Moon from various traditional sources compiled by Deb:
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/voc.html

This was put together before some of the translations that have appeared in the last few years but its still a very useful compilation.

Mark
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Geoffrey



Joined: 09 Jul 2012
Posts: 380
Location: Scottish Borders

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for those links Mark. I had not read them before and I found them very useful indeed! In particular, the second link to the collection from traditional sources, which appear to show what I suspected.

The early Hellenistic (Roman and Greek) authors do not append the qualification ".... while she is in that sign," to definitions of VOC Moon. (i.e., ' separated from and not applying to any aspect, while in that sign,' which is how Lilly, Ramesey, et al have it.)

However, once we get to Abu Ma'shar in the 9th century, we get:

"It is 'void of course' if a planet separates from application with a planet in conjunction or aspect, and does not apply to a planet as long as it is in its sign."

And

"It is 'wild' if it is a planet which no planet aspects at all; and this happens most frequently with the Moon. "

So, the early Hellenistic VOC definition is now termed 'wild', and the term VOC is given to planets that are wild and will not make any aspect before they leave the sign they currently occupy.

It seems to me that Abu Ma'shar has made a subtle, but definite change in the definition of VOC and that is where the confusion has arisen.

It is clear that while traditional (medieval to 1700) astrologers follow Abu Ma'shar in his definition of VOC, in practice they include 'wild' as being the same as VOC - so effectively going back to the earlier Greek/Roman tradition of VOC
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pankajdubey



Joined: 17 Nov 2006
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Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hellenistic were quite liberal and moon was rarely void:

Some definitions here:

http://books.google.co.in/books?id=e46T28QhWSkC&pg=PT45&lpg=PT45&dq=THE+HELLENISTIC+VOID-OF-COURSE+MOON&source=bl&ots=g0a63MeG6-&sig=abrXu4qPpuhGsdKJlWeFlCIlZMI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=n_vUU_KzEoS0uATIi4GYBQ&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=THE%20HELLENISTIC%20VOID-OF-COURSE%20MOON&f=false



This is quite old:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.astrology/Iqm0IrNfv78
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