Analyzing a question I put to an astrologer.

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I consulted with an astrologer about the safety of a medical procedure for a family member. This astrologer has already given a judgment. Of course it is still left to me and my family to decide whether or not to proceed with this. Can I post the question here for further analysis along with my own thoughts?

I asked, "Will general anesthesia and the rest of the dental procedure be safe for my child?"

Time: 6:02 pm CDT July 1, 2014
Place: Iowa City, IA
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See, the dentist had told us our (very young) daughter needs several crowns and it can't be done without placing her under general anesthesia. My chief concern was the side effects of the anesthesia when I asked the question, but I was/am also concerned about the rest of the procedure, possible infections, etc. I also wanted to see if her condition is serious enough to warrant the procedure (i.e. would it be okay if we refused the procedure, or is it so bad now we have to do this regardless of the risks?).

My daughter's significator is weak in Libra conjunct the 11th house cusp, which is the turned 7th house (the doctor/dentist). South Node in the 5th. That worries me. No aspect between Mars and Mercury, ruler of the treatment which is the 10th. Radical 7th ruler Mercury is dignified in Gemini but no aspect to Mars. If the chart is turned, Venus becomes the ruler of the doctor. It is approaching a trine to Mars. Saturn, natural significator of teeth and lord of the turned 10th, is in Scorpio, a traditional sign of Mars. Mars is in the exaltation sign of Saturn. Mars is antiscion with Neptune. Saturn is weak, retrograde and in the radical 12th.

The dentist seems to have mixed dignity. Teeth seem to be in pretty bad shape. And if Mars is my daughter and it is in detriment in the turned 7th, it seems to mean she won't be in good hands if we entrust her to this dentist.

I am confused as to which to consider more accurate: the radical chart or the turned chart?

Also, Libra may describe the dental procedure because it is meant to clean the teeth and preserve its shape. Or do you think it is still a debility for Mars?

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First off - the chart needs to be turned. 5th house, as you know, becomes the Ascendant (your daughter). 11th house her doctor (turned 7th). 2nd house is the treatment (turned 10th).

Mars, your daughter, is debilitated and 'at the mercy of' the doctor (Mars on turned 7th cusp.)

The treatment, turned 10th, is ruled by Saturn, which has mutual reception with Mars, your daughter. The proposed treatment won't harm your daughter.

However, the treatment, Saturn, is weakened by sign, placement, and being retrograde. Although the treatment won't 'harm' your daughter - it may not be the best solution.

Adding to this is south node on the cusp of your daughter's ASC.

I suggest getting a 2nd opinion and getting to the bottom of why your child is having this type of dental/mouth issue at such a young age.

BM

Re: Analyzing a question I put to an astrologer.

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traditionalastrologystude wrote:I am confused as to which to consider more accurate: the radical chart or the turned chart?
BlueMoon wrote:First off - the chart needs to be turned. 5th house, as you know, becomes the Ascendant (your daughter). 11th house her doctor (turned 7th). 2nd house is the treatment (turned 10th).
in his chapter on third house matters, Lilly goes into great detail explaining when to engage in this "masterpiece of the art." that's a great resource to lean on when wondering to turn or not to turn. (ref: CA, pp. 189-192.) notice in Lilly's examples of turning the chart for an absent brother, the radical eighth, tenth, and second will have negative connotations for the brother's wellbeing because they serve as turned 6th, 8th and 12th. but the radical 6th (turned fourth), 8th (turned sixth) and 12th (turned 10th) will also necessarily have some darkness to them because in the radical (root) chart these are dark houses.

a good rule of thumb is to only turn when you need to turn, which is to say that we only need to look at derived houses when we need to distinguish. a great example is court charts. the first describes the querent (horary) or prosecution (event), the seventh the adversary (horary) or defendant (event). the ninth house goes to the legal advisers for the prosecution, the third to the legal advisers of the defendant. we turn the chart here because we need to distinguish between two different sets of legal advisers.

in your chart, there is only one child = fifth. we aren't distinguishing between your physician and the child's, so seventh goes to the physician. there's only one treatment, so we look to the 10th.

so to reiterate -- turn if you must, to distinguish (as is done in charts for court cases) or to put yourself in the perspective of another (as in a missing person) who is removed from you in some way.

her significator is Mars, debilitated, who also rules the 12th. this is serious and cannot wait.

physician and treatment is signified by Mercury in dignity, angular. treatment will be quick (angular), effective (in dignity) and sensitive to the needs of your child (Mercury naturally rules children).

Venus is on the 7th angle, moving to trine and receive Mars. she's peregrine, but at least accidentally dignified and can see her dispositor Mercury. this alleviates some of the stress of the situation and puts a more benevolent tenor on an otherwise frustrating chart.
traditionalastrologystude wrote:I also wanted to see if her condition is serious enough to warrant the procedure (i.e. would it be okay if we refused the procedure, or is it so bad now we have to do this regardless of the risks?).
you are signified by an exalted Jupiter -- hoping things will somehow "work themselves out" is a classically Jupiterian approach to the problems we face day to day, and the chart seems to indicate that's why we're here in the first place (see below). but you're positioned in the 8th house, unable to view the Ascendant (Sagittarius) from Cancer, indicating you're not in the best position to call the shots. trust your doctor -- he's got good line of sight into what's going on.

truth be told, Mars also rules the 12th (meaning subject to the mistakes of the querent) and Saturn (natural ruler of teeth, but also of forgetfulness and neglect) is placed in the 12th retrograde. you'll need to play a more active role than you have been in helping your child develop healthy teeth habits or you and your child will absolutely be down this road again.

hope this helps.
http://wadecaves.com | hello@wadecaves.com

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'To turn or not to turn?'

I always turn. It makes sense to me, and it works.

I do know that well respected traditional medical astrologer Oscar Hoffman turns the chart. In his book 'Classical Medical Astrology: Healing with the Elements', on pages 107, 108 and 109 he discusses a medical horary in which the querent inquires about her child. Radical 5th is obviously used for the child, and turned 10th for the treatment.

Sorry to present a different opinion - I know it can be frustrating and this is an important and most likely emotional issue for you.

BM

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Update on this chart!

Sorry for not updating this. I get notifications in an email address that I don't check often! Also it has been a stressful time.

We've been religiously taking care of our child's teeth. It's been 4 months. She is doing fine. We brush her teeth promptly after every meal, give her plenty of water, change brushes often and give her vitamin-rich foods. We also keep starches and sugars very low. We realized we couldn't have had the procedure done on her anyway as it requires a half-day fast (from early evening to next morning) and she wakes up a LOT and gets hungry/thirsty.

I took the question to another astrologer, by the way. Lee Lehman gives GREAT medical astrology readings. She seems to be into natural medicine and knows a lot about it. Gave me a lot of good advice.

Thanks to you all for looking at the chart! I know you appreciate feedback and updates so I'm posting this!