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lord of solar return ascendant as a timelord

 
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AstroNovice



Joined: 24 Jun 2012
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:08 am    Post subject: lord of solar return ascendant as a timelord Reply with quote

the lord of the solar return ascendant can be used as a time lord right? (besides using the profection time lord of course) I have read this numerous times before in different places, and theoretically it makes sense, however I just want to make sure before I add it to my astrological toolbox.
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Konrad



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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, not really as a time-lord,but as a significator of the year along with the Revolution Moon and its lord. If you have, or can get a hold of, Abu Ma'shar's On Solar Revolutions, it is all outlined pretty extensively there.
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Paul
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:37 am    Post subject: Re: lord of solar return ascendant as a timelord Reply with quote

AstroNovice wrote:
the lord of the solar return ascendant can be used as a time lord right? (besides using the profection time lord of course) I have read this numerous times before in different places, and theoretically it makes sense, however I just want to make sure before I add it to my astrological toolbox.


AstroNovice

Can you remember anywhere you've read it? I'd be interested in finding out more about why people say that. I agree with Konrad incidentally but I'm curious if you have read multiple times that the solar return ascendant is a time lord.
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Becca



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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the Lord of the Solar Return Asc can be used as a Time Lord, what are some ways that we can track it other than in a Solar Return chart?
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AstroNovice



Joined: 24 Jun 2012
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Konrad wrote:
No, not really as a time-lord,but as a significator of the year along with the Revolution Moon and its lord. If you have, or can get a hold of, Abu Ma'shar's On Solar Revolutions, it is all outlined pretty extensively there.


thanks for the book recommendation, I will be checking that out soon. Btw, What exactly is the difference between a time lord and a significator of the year? I assume that the significator of the year can only be considered within the context of the solar return chart? Also when you speak of the revolution moon, you are referring to the moon in the solar return chart and its dispositor right?


Paul wrote:
AstroNovice wrote:
the lord of the solar return ascendant can be used as a time lord right? (besides using the profection time lord of course) I have read this numerous times before in different places, and theoretically it makes sense, however I just want to make sure before I add it to my astrological toolbox.


AstroNovice

Can you remember anywhere you've read it? I'd be interested in finding out more about why people say that. I agree with Konrad incidentally but I'm curious if you have read multiple times that the solar return ascendant is a time lord.


I can't remember specifically where I have read it, usually it was mentioned more in an offhand manner, not so much in terms of X author said so and so. Additionally the fact that on a theoretical level it kind of makes sense makes it an alluring concept, however it appears that there might not be any basis for that belief afterall...


Becca wrote:
If the Lord of the Solar Return Asc can be used as a Time Lord, what are some ways that we can track it other than in a Solar Return chart?


Well, one example of what I had in mind was that (assuming this concept was correct) the lord of the solar return ascendant would be more sensitive to transits that year. (as the lord of the solar return ascendant exists in the natal chart of course) Is this sort of the thing that you are talking about?
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Konrad



Joined: 01 Nov 2009
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AstroNovice wrote:
Konrad wrote:
No, not really as a time-lord,but as a significator of the year along with the Revolution Moon and its lord. If you have, or can get a hold of, Abu Ma'shar's On Solar Revolutions, it is all outlined pretty extensively there.


thanks for the book recommendation, I will be checking that out soon. Btw, What exactly is the difference between a time lord and a significator of the year? I assume that the significator of the year can only be considered within the context of the solar return chart? Also when you speak of the revolution moon, you are referring to the moon in the solar return chart and its dispositor right?


Well a time-lord is a planet who is manager of a specific period of time such as the bound lord of the primary directed ASC, or the lord of the profected ASC. A significator of the year is one who says something about the year, but is not directly charged with managing the year for the native. Practically, a time-lord's transits (to and from) as well as activations via monthly profections and such like, should be noted. A significator will talk of instances or themes in the native's life for that year only, but will not be sensitive to the finer divisions - for me, they exist outside of the hierarchy of timing techniques, and merely add their voice to the year in their specific way dependant on thier natural and accidental significations.

Yes, it is the Moon and its dispositor who should be considered. With this and the lord of the solar revolution ASC, it is their position natally and their position at the time of the revolution that should be noted. I don't view the revolution as a distinct chart, but as a set of important transits. Abu Ma'shar, whom I mentioned earlier, did view it as a distinct chart. I believe he is the first we have record of doing such a thing. Regardless, his book is vital for one wanting to understand the Perso-Arabic method of delineating the year, it covers every aspect you can think of, and in a step-by-step manner.
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AstroNovice



Joined: 24 Jun 2012
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Konrad wrote:
AstroNovice wrote:
Konrad wrote:
No, not really as a time-lord,but as a significator of the year along with the Revolution Moon and its lord. If you have, or can get a hold of, Abu Ma'shar's On Solar Revolutions, it is all outlined pretty extensively there.


thanks for the book recommendation, I will be checking that out soon. Btw, What exactly is the difference between a time lord and a significator of the year? I assume that the significator of the year can only be considered within the context of the solar return chart? Also when you speak of the revolution moon, you are referring to the moon in the solar return chart and its dispositor right?


Well a time-lord is a planet who is manager of a specific period of time such as the bound lord of the primary directed ASC, or the lord of the profected ASC. A significator of the year is one who says something about the year, but is not directly charged with managing the year for the native. Practically, a time-lord's transits (to and from) as well as activations via monthly profections and such like, should be noted. A significator will talk of instances or themes in the native's life for that year only, but will not be sensitive to the finer divisions - for me, they exist outside of the hierarchy of timing techniques, and merely add their voice to the year in their specific way dependant on thier natural and accidental significations.

Yes, it is the Moon and its dispositor who should be considered. With this and the lord of the solar revolution ASC, it is their position natally and their position at the time of the revolution that should be noted. I don't view the revolution as a distinct chart, but as a set of important transits. Abu Ma'shar, whom I mentioned earlier, did view it as a distinct chart. I believe he is the first we have record of doing such a thing. Regardless, his book is vital for one wanting to understand the Perso-Arabic method of delineating the year, it covers every aspect you can think of, and in a step-by-step manner.


oh wow, thats a lot to take in...but if I understand what you wrote correctly then I think it confirms my previous understanding of time lords and the significator of the year. That being said, I have a question about how this concept would play out in a particular situation. Lets say that my solar return ascendant is in sagittarius, then would this mean that my natal jupiter would be extra sensitive to transits during this year? I get the impression that you are saying that it wouldn't be since the lord of the return ascendant cannot be a timelord, however I just wanted to make sure.

also im glad to see that your blog is back up, I always enjoyed reading it.
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Konrad



Joined: 01 Nov 2009
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Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AstroNovice wrote:
oh wow, thats a lot to take in...but if I understand what you wrote correctly then I think it confirms my previous understanding of time lords and the significator of the year. That being said, I have a question about how this concept would play out in a particular situation. Lets say that my solar return ascendant is in sagittarius, then would this mean that my natal jupiter would be extra sensitive to transits during this year? I get the impression that you are saying that it wouldn't be since the lord of the return ascendant cannot be a timelord, however I just wanted to make sure.


I don't like to talk in absolutist terms as I could be wrong, but basically, yes, I think the lord of the East of the Year (as Dykes) translates it, signifies a theme in the year. In my practice, I am focused on the bound lord of the directed Hyleg, and the lord of the profected ASC as activators of events. Of course, practically, charts are often a lot more complex than how they are presented in the texts, so the only answer is to practice on chart after chart and derive your own rules.

Thanks for the comments about my blog, I'm happy to have the time to post on it again.
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